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Do You Hate the Truth?


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#1 Tkulp

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 08:33 AM

Tozer's devotional was fantastic today, "May 11"

 

Truth Wounds

The truth resolves some difficulties and creates others.

"The truth shall make you free"; that is, free from the woes, the yokes, the burdens which sin imposes.

Yet that same truth brings problems of another kind. It cannot be otherwise, since we are forced to entertain truth in a world dedicated to the lie. Human society is in a quiet conspiracy against the truth as far as it touches spiritual and moral things. The soul dedicated to God's truth is never popular with the multitudes. They make him pay for his love of truth. And that creates a problem for him.

Wherever and whenever truth gets itself incarnated in a man, that man is sure to become the target for every kind of opposition from the casual barbed insult of a professed friend to the carefully prepared campaign of the avowed enemy. The problem this creates for the man of truth is how to accept these attacks in the spirit of charity, how to keep cool and patient when all his old natural reflexes urge him to strike back with every weapon at his command.

Verse

Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. First Corinthians 13:6-7

Thought

Living out truth in the midst of untruth cause wounds. To accept those wounds without rancor or retaliation requires that we allow the love of Christ to flow through us. And that love heals the wounds.

Prayer

Lord, I ask for a miracle--Your love. Love for truth and for the enemies of it.

 

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Why do people that refer to themselves, by the name of Christ, fight and argue against the Truth?

 

Pro 21:2-4  All of a person's ways seem right in his own opinion, but the LORD evaluates the motives. To do righteousness and justice is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice.  Haughty eyes and a proud heart — the agricultural product of the wicked is sin. (You will find it hard to appreciate the 'agricultural' idea unless you love to grow things.)
 

 

Why do we all believe that we live in the Truth (In the Light), but do not 'live and produce' the fruit of the Light and Truth?

 

Is it because some people, most people? ...love the Darkness rather than the Light? ...live in Darkness but call and believe that 'the darkness' is light? ... too busy with the worthless pursuits of life to have any time for the Light to reveal the Darkness in their lives?

 

Mark 4:11-12  And He said to them, To you has been entrusted the mystery of the kingdom of God [that is, the secret counsels of God which are hidden from the ungodly]; but for those outside [of our circle] everything becomes a parable, In order that they may [indeed] look and look but not see and perceive, and may hear and hear but not grasp and comprehend, lest haply they should turn again, and it [their willful rejection of the truth] should be forgiven them. [Isa. 6:9-10; Mat. 13:13-15]

 

Romans 12:1-2   I APPEAL to you therefore, brethren, and beg of you in view of [all] the mercies of God, to make a decisive dedication of your bodies [presenting all your members and faculties] as a living sacrifice, holy (devoted, consecrated) and well pleasing to God, which is your reasonable (rational, intelligent) service and spiritual worship.

 

Do not be conformed to this world (this age), [fashioned after and adapted to its external, superficial customs], but be transformed (changed) by the [entire] renewal of your mind [by its new ideals and its new attitude], so that you may prove [for yourselves] what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God, even the thing which is good and acceptable and perfect [in His sight for you].
 



#2 BHerr

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 07:21 AM

I've always wondered about that...why God would keep people from being able to see and understand, "lest they should turn and be forgiven". Doesn't He want people to turn and be forgiven? Yes, but not while doing things their own way according to their own understanding (lawless, without direction outside of themselves)

I'm reminded of what God said about the tree of life after Adam and Eve disobeyed Him, "Then the Lord God said, “Look, the human beings have become like us, knowing both good and evil. What if they reach out, take fruit from the tree of life, and eat it? Then they will live forever!”
Genesis 3:22 NLT

And then I read this morning from Collosians 3:9, 10
"So we have not stopped praying for you since we first heard about you. We ask God to give you complete knowledge of his will and to give you spiritual wisdom and understanding. Then the way you live will always honor and please the Lord, and your lives will produce every kind of good fruit. All the while, you will grow as you learn to know God better and better."
Colossians 1:9‭-‬10 NLT
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#3 Tkulp

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 09:04 AM

I have not been sure how to present the following that I felt to address this morning, new forum or blog. I just felt to put it here as it does have to do with the messages that are in the World today. Easy believe trying or repentant, surrendered, walk with the Holy Spirit?

 

I do believe that it is critical, now and eternally, to follow the Truth.

 

Is this Truth or Error?

 

The following (between the dashed lines ----) was taken from a devotional written by a well known Pastor in the US.

 

How do you decide what is "Truth" and what is 'deception'?

 

 

 

Beginning of Devotional  ----------------------------------------------------------------

 

Relax. God’s Grace Covers Your Sin!

 

"As a father is kind to his children, so the Lord is kind to those who honor him. He knows what we are made of; he remembers that we are dust." (Psalm 103:13-14 GN)

 

God's love is unconditional; it's not based on what you do or don't do.

 

The Bible teaches us that "there is no condemnation now for those who live in union with Christ Jesus" (Romans 8:1 TEV). What does that mean? Let's say I take a card and write every single thing I've ever done wrong on it (and, of course, it wouldn't all fit on a single card). I write down all my sins, faults, mistakes, skeletons in my closet, shameful acts and thoughts and memories and temptations. And then I put the card in a book and close it. You can't see the card anymore. You can only see the book. That's the way God sees us when Jesus is in our lives. He no longer sees our sin; he sees Jesus at work in our lives.

 

When I come to Christ and say, "God, here's my life — everything I've ever done wrong, every time I've ever made a mistake, all those stupid things I've done. I want to put my life in Jesus Christ." Jesus wraps me with his love, and God looks at Jesus and sees that Jesus is perfect. He doesn't see my sin. That's what it means to relax in God's grace.

 

 

End of Devotional  -----------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

I find it interesting that Satan is still the same today as He was shortly after creation as shared in Genesis 3.

 

Satan said,  "...Surely you will not die, for God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will open and you will be like divine beings who know good and evil."

 

Satan's voice has been heard down through the centuries saying the same basic message of deception. 'You can disobey and do what you want and not have to face the consequences for your sin.'

 

Satan will use anyone that still is controlled by the flesh, and like in the beginning Satan uses the best He can find. " Now the serpent was more shrewd than any of the wild animals that the LORD God had made."

 

Satan says today, ...Jesus did not come to deliver you from your 'self' and your 'flesh', He came to 'cover-up' you sins and disobedience. God's love is unconditional.

 

The Bible is full of conditions!

 

Psalms 103:17-18 completes the idea started in the previous verses used in the devotional. "....But the LORD continually shows loyal love to his faithful followers, and is faithful to their descendants, to those who keep his covenant, who are careful to obey his commands."

 

...also in the devotional above, the text, is a misleading translation, the phrase from Psalms 103:13-14 " the Lord is kind to those who honor him"...

 

....should read, NET "...the LORD has compassion on his faithful followers" or KJ "...the LORD pitieth them that fear (fearing; morally reverent) him."

 

Then, Romans 8:1  as used in this devotional is a deception. It leaves off the condition in verse 8:4, sealing the deceit. who do not walk according to the flesh. (Romans 8:4) At the bottom is more of that chapter, including the conditions, in bold.

 

John 3:16 NET says, " For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life."

 

Do you not see the condition? "everyone who believes in him" That belief  is an active belief, which is supported in the book of James, especially chapter 2.

 

The Bible tells you how to know if  you have the "fruit" of the Spirit, or the fruit of the flesh. Galatians 5

 

Satan will tell you that you do not have to produce good fruit to claim the promises. Check all of the promises out and see how many have a word of condition, somewhere in or 'having to do with' the promise, such as the use of the word "if", "who", "whoever", etc.

 

Most important, Do you know what it is to be "in" Christ Jesus? ...or have Jesus "in" you or "one" with you?

 

Rom 8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:2  For the law of the life-giving Spirit in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:3  For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,

Rom 8:4  so that the righteous requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:5  For those who live according to the flesh have their outlook shaped by the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit have their outlook shaped by the things of the Spirit.

Rom 8:6  For the outlook of the flesh is death, but the outlook of the Spirit is life and peace,

Rom 8:7  because the outlook of the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to the law of God, nor is it able to do so.

Rom 8:8  Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom 8:9  You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him.

Rom 8:10  But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is your life because of righteousness.

Rom 8:11  Moreover if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his Spirit who lives in you.

Rom 8:12  So then, brothers and sisters, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh

Rom 8:13  (for if you live according to the flesh, you will die), but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live.

Rom 8:14  For all who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.



#4 Charles Miles

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 03:54 AM

I have been away for a while, but do stop by and check on old friends on Deeper Life Forum.  Identifying sin in our lives is not difficult and our job, as relates to sin is to ask forgiveness and try not to do it again.......but we usually do mess up again.  If not in that area, then in another. Living in this world is much like walking through a mud hole and wondering why we have muddy feet.

  Friends, people are not going to hell for what they do, they will go to hell for what they are. We must be born again by the spirit, be made into a new creature, and allow the Lord to come into us and live there.  He will remove the heart of stone, replace it with a heart of flesh, write His laws on our heart, He will be our God, and we will be His people. And He will remember our sins no more!(New Covenant). Yes we walk through mud holes and yes we get mud on us, but it will no longer be in our heart, but just on our feet, and can easily be washed off by repentance.

 Often these mud holes get deep, really deep, and doubt creeps into our mind. The Lord`s gentle words can then be heard.....".Do you trust me? Do you actually believe what I said?" The Lord loves us more than anyone can fathom. His power is greater than anything we can know. 

  In these "interesting times" let us revel in His love for us, knowing that He will always do what He always said He would do.

 

I am a blessed man because God loves me. I know He does because He said He does.

   

 

Charlie



#5 Tkulp

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 01:17 AM

Charlie,

 

I am really disappointed in you! You should know better than to do what you have done here!!

 

I left you, in March of this year, with a detailed evaluation of your incorrect beliefs, according to Scripture, at this location....  https://ecommunity.c...fusing/page-2  

 

If you seriously wanted Truth why have you not addressed the Word of God that was given to you there?

 

 

You come on to this "The Deeper Life Forum"  with the friendly kiss of Judas to push beliefs that are not true.

 

 

This thread is entitled  "Do You Hate the Truth?"   Are you trying to establish that you hate the Truth?

 

It was started from a devotional by Tozer as follows...

 

Truth Wounds

The truth resolves some difficulties and creates others.

"The truth shall make you free"; that is, free from the woes, the yokes, the burdens which sin imposes.

 

Charlie here is truth regarding your post on this thread. You have gone beyond splashing through a mud puddle and getting a little dirt on your feet, that can be easily washed off!

 

You have not demonstrated that you have read anything that was written before your post or understood any of the context of what was being talked about or the verses given.

 

You have posted concepts that the Word of God plainly states the opposite of.

 

I would call that deception, lying or misrepresenting Truth of the highest form.

 

You have broken the ninth commandment, “You shall not bear false witness”! Your words are not just going to me, they are going out to the entire planet earth.

 

This is not a sin against me Charlie, this is a sin against the Word of God and the everything that the Word of God stands for!

 

If you are at all sincerely interested in what it is that you have said so blatantly false, ask, I will respond to any sincerity.

 

When you post or speak anything on line, or anywhere as a follower and witness to who and what God is, I would encourage you to know who and what you are talking about 'first hand', not what some man has taught you and you believe is true!

 

Second hand information is dangerous and can be misleading.

 

Here are some things that Jesus said that I believe could be applicable to you,  Jesus said, "If anyone wants to become my follower, he must deny himself, take up his cross daily, and follow me."

 

Jesus said to his disciples, "Stumbling blocks are sure to come, but woe to the one through whom they come!  It would be better for him to have a millstone tied around his neck and be thrown into the sea than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. Watch yourselves!

If your brother sins, rebuke him. If he repents, forgive him. Luke 17:1-3

 

Charlie consider this a rebuke and a warning to stop being a false witness. You have demonstrated plainly, in your post above, that you are not a lover of Truth!

 

Tim K.



#6 Meema

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 04:18 AM

Hi Charles. I haven’t been in here in a very long time either. In fact, I don’t know what made me stop in this time.  Frankly I’m stunned to see this forum taken over by one person allowed to do so. Seems to be the way of things though. I’ve seen this too many times and it’s likely why I stopped posting in forums. There’s always that one who thinks he or she is the only one who knows THE TRUTH and wields it like a weapon against everyone else. Kind of a shame really. I once had a very painful experience with a religious tyrant but it was an essential learning curve in the important skill of discernment.

 

Good to read your words again, dear heart. 

 

I leave with this thought - the day comes when we are challenged to speak out. Guess it was my turn.


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#7 Ginger

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 08:31 PM

Hi Charlie,

 

It's been a very long time since I've been here...

 

I appreciate you brother! It's so good to read your post(s)!  Since reading a post I'm asking that God bless you and protect you from unkind and untrue words.  Reckon I'm to also pray for the person that said some things that I consider as words that are very wrong and hurtful.  I wrap my mind around two words "God KNOWS". 

So thankful that Jesus never leaves us nor forsakes us.

I pray to be kind and tenderhearted and prayerful about what I may be prone to be opinionated about. And to pray for a person that I believe has said things that are very wrong about you.  I'm not to say unkind words and I am to pray for this person and God KNOWS all about all and He will help me to pray aright for each of us. 

 

Grateful that God will help every Christian to pray for one another, when we ask Him for help, we do receive....

 

I am going to copy your writing above and think on it while I'm off line and trying to pray aright...

 

Praise God from whom all blessings flow.

Love and prayers,
Ginger


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#8 Candice

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 10:11 PM

Charlie, the Lord is your defense. “But the Lord has been my defense, and my God the rock of my refuge.” Psalm 94:22

If a forum moderator believes you’re way off Charlie, I suppose he or she would boot you out? You’re fine Charlie. You have the Lord as your defense.

The mud analogy reminds me of a book I read by Major Ian Thomas, “If I Perish, I Perish”. I want to post about a pig and a family! Maybe tomorrow. I think it will bless you Charlie.

It’s a great analogy....parable: mud! ☺️

We all need to be at peace with all people as far as it is up to each of us. We can all get touchy and opinionated, but accusing a brother or sister—thats the last thing we need to have fellowship.
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#9 Charles Miles

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 08:30 AM

Tulp, I am so sorry to have upset you, but I think you just maybe have misunderstood what I was trying to say.  It had little or nothing to do with your post. If I am a Judas, or not telling truth, God will judge me my friend, not you, so I will not argue with a believer about his relationship with the Lord, because I have no way to know what that relationship actually is. My relationship with him is just fine.  In fact we spoke this morning.

 The only thing I was trying to say is what Jesus said when he washed the disciple`s feet. He stated(paraphrase) once you believe and have accepted forgiveness for sin, and accepted the fact that Jesus and the Father actually live within you, there is no need to go back through everything again, or every time you meet with the Father in prayer. "I will remember their sins no more" is pretty clear and definitely a comfort for an old sinner like me. We(I) do continue to sin, even though we try not to do so, but my sins are forgiven, totally, past present and future, forever and ever.  God does not even remember that I ever sinned, but as I stumble, as I mess up, I return to His feet and ask forgiveness for mistakes(sin). They are already forgiven, so I compare them to mud, dirt, or grime picked up on my feet as I travel through a fallen world. I have already had a full bath(total forgiveness) so that is not needed again, and that is what Jesus told Peter, right? So all we need do now is wash off the "travel dirt" we picked up since our acceptance as a child of God. Sin no longer lives in a child of God. The sin nature is gone and sin does not control my life. My sins are strictly on the outside and can be cleaned away by just asking for it. I don`t need to go back through the whole salvation process because what Jesus did was sufficient for all, for all time.

 

If my belief on this subject is in error, then the Lord will deal with me as He always has in the past. As I recall, the purpose of this board is to allow us a place to express how the Lord is working in our lives and how we can achieve a deeper relationship with Him.  Somehow I don`t think chastising other believers is really what we should be doing here, and I certainly won`t be doing it here or anywhere else.  May God give you peace on this subject, and any other subject that troubles you.

 

I am a blessed man, but I`m getting better every day,

 

Charlie



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#10 Ginger

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 11:21 PM

What a blessing your post makes Brother Charlie... Such a down to earth and yet heavenly minded way of being a child of God and sharing from your heart.  Thanking God for what you've shared ... 'travel dirt' what an apt way to consider what happens as we go through the days... how comforting ... just need to have a daily washing to be cleansed of 'travel dirt'... God bless you Dear Brother.  :-) Jesus washed each of His disciples feet. Sometimes coming to Jesus day by day for help in washing off travel dirt is a profound thought... Jesus makes me to become squeaky clean as I come to Him for some help to wash anything... aging can make it a bit difficult to understand what is truly needed.  Jesus KNOWS, Cares, and always helps because without Him I can do nothing.... Remembering this is a blessing at this moment ... Praise be to God for each blessing.  Marveling over how the words "travel dirt" have been such an apt and descriptive way of helping to identify and understand about the problem and coming for a daily redemptive washing... and the oil of gladness is so very soothing.... So thankful to learn that "travel dirt" identifies the problem and makes things easier to address for sure. God is so good to give me something to even giggle about... old 74 year old lady needed the Lord to let me know about "travel dirt".  Negative thinking patterns can cause mental 'travel dirt' to accumulate. Charlie, thanks for simplifying things :-) with 2 words. God bless you moment by moment.  Now I need to meditate upon the last part of a verse  ... that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, an perfect, will of God. And also grateful to have some good commentaries. 

 

Romans 12:2  And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


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#11 Tkulp

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 11:55 AM

Charlie,

 

"Upset" is not the word that I would use but disappointment.  I am really disappointed in your failure to address the Word of God that has been presented to you, by me, in the past.  The problem is with your miss-use of  Bible verses according to their context in letters as well as the Bible in its entirety. I sincerely believe that you and all that have posted here choose to accept what you believe as truth. Is it possible that to believe that one is always bound to sin is to hate the Truth? Does the Bible say that if you love God you will keep His commandments? Does that mean that if you do not keep His commandments that you do not love Him?

 

It amazes me the number of previous participants that have come out of the woodwork, so to speak, after so long a time to support your beliefs.

 

The issue being not if I can miss the mark as I grow, but is it God's intent that humanity should live expecting to miss the mark, not understanding, evidently, or just not reading what has been provided by His Son on a very cruel cross.

 

Not many have dialogued with me as you have, but you have not addressed, replied or applied the scripture that I have given you to meditate on, yet you continue to say the same ideas without overwhelming, in context, Scriptural support.

 

The bottom line is 'What is Truth'?

 

With you I had concluded discussion because you did not want to study the Bible and reply accordingly. It appears that good feelings are the most popular goal, as opposed to the possible pain of real Biblical truth. I believe that is what Tozer was speaking of in his devotional above. I can not understand how anyone could have seriously read that devotional and then said some of the things that have been posted here.

 

I have established, in all that I have ever posted on the C&MA site, that God wants us to be Holy as He is Holy! For real, not a covered-up presumption. Jesus died to set us free from the power of sin. The decision to sin or not to sin when we are tempted, is a choice that we make; we are told to put 'self', the 'flesh', and our senses to death; totally out the power structure of our lives.

 

Jesus says that He wants to live in us to enable us to choose obedience to all that our heart knows is right. We have to choose to open the door of our mind and commune with Him.

 

The conclusion to truth is that if Jesus is really the love of our heart, living within our heart, how can anyone want to make the choice to be in rebellion against God and His way of doing things right? If we love Him we will keep His commandments! If He is truly inside us, as opposed to other spirits, and we will be obeying His inner promptings always, because the self-life or flesh is dead, no longer in control; how can that individual ever miss the mark, or sin? He can not! According to Paul too many want to remain babies, not wanting to walk, when they can crawl! ...not obeying what the Word of God gives them and the Spirit of God whispers to their hearts.

 

1Jn 3:2  Dear friends, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that whenever it is revealed we will be like him, because we will see him just as he is.
1Jn 3:3  And everyone who has this hope focused on him purifies himself, just as Jesus is pure).
1Jn 3:4  Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; indeed, sin is lawlessness.
1Jn 3:5  And you know that Jesus was revealed to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
1Jn 3:6  Everyone who resides in him does not sin; everyone who sins has neither seen him nor known him.

 

Here is what you believe and repeat in many of your postings and communication with me....

 

"We(I) do continue to sin, even though we try not to do so, but my sins are forgiven, totally, past present and future, forever and ever.  God does not even remember that I ever sinned, but as I stumble, as I mess up, I return to His feet and ask forgiveness for mistakes(sin). They are already forgiven,...."

 

I hear presumption in what you say, not what the letters of John tell me. If I was to live with the attitude that you express I would consider my self as treating the Blood Sacrifice as common; like taking a bath is common; instead of special, something that is there for an emergency. If the Holy Spirit is really in control He will always steer me away from the the slightest thought of mud. The choice is mine to hear and obey, or to ignore the warning. If you ignore the voice of the Holy Spirit, the oil will eventually run out and then the light will go out. The door will be shut forever.

 

If Satan can use the Word of God to make his way seem right, as he did with Jesus, the Word of God is open to be interpreted any way that a person wants it  to be.

 

My heart is sad for those who feel bound to the self life and the accompanying sins or missing of the mark. They have not, by definition been saved! (Saved means to be delivered. but It can also mean protected)

 

For me, I would rather concentrate on the deliverance and seeing the fruit of that deliverance in my life, to be assured that I am protected, beginning now and as long as I remain faithful to the Holy Spirit's guidance.

 

Sadly some people are taught, and believe, that you start with the idea protection, forget the deliverance and presume that you are going to have an eternal deliverance or refuge.

 

God is the Judge, not me for sure, but He warns us about all the people that are going to get a very disappointing word at the Judgement Seat; which some in our day, choose to believe will not happen for believers.

 

Heb 3:7-13  "Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts, as [happened] in the rebellion [of Israel] and their provocation and embitterment [of Me] in the day of testing in the wilderness, Where your fathers tried [My patience] and tested [My forbearance] and found I stood their test, and they saw My works for forty years."

 

"And so I was provoked (displeased and sorely grieved) with that generation, and said, They always err and are led astray in their hearts, and they have not perceived or recognized My ways and become progressively better and more experimentally and intimately acquainted with them."

 

"Accordingly, I swore in My wrath and indignation, They shall not enter into My rest. [Psa. 95:7-11] [Therefore beware] brethren, take care, lest there be in any one of you a wicked, unbelieving heart [which refuses to cleave to, trust in, and rely on Him], leading you to turn away and desert or stand aloof from the living God. But instead warn (admonish, urge, and encourage) one another every day, as long as it is called Today, that none of you may be hardened [into settled rebellion] by the deceitfulness of sin [by the fraudulence, the stratagem, the trickery which the delusive glamor of his sin may play on him]."

 

Charlie, and others that are participating here, I will not have to answer for what you choose to believe. I will answer for what I have been told to do and if I have done it as directed by the Holy Spirit. Yes, I do have feelings, but they are not what I choose to giving in to.

 

If I have missed the mark in any of what I have written, I know that I will be disciplined by a loving Father, and I will never do it again!  I do not write or live for the approval or disapproval of man. What I do, I do with all my heart, to please my Father and reveal His Truth, Jesus Christ.

 

The question still is... "Do you love the Truth (by your thoughts, words and actions) or do you hate the Truth (by disobedience)?????

 

Tim



#12 Charles Miles

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 11:13 AM

I have been away for a week or so would still be away, but for Nate. Again let me say that I will not get in an argument with anyone over what I believe and the fact that someone is disappointed in me is not a new thing. Anyone who expects NOT to be disappointed when dealing with a human being just hasn`t been around enough of us!  Tim, I understand what you are saying, and yes, God desires us to be Holy just as He is Holy. I do work at it and sometimes I do OK, but then I sin.  I don`t want to, but I do. Any man who says he has not sinned is simply not telling the truth.  It`s what happens then that is the miracle...God still loves me! I ask for forgiveness and He says  "I already have forgiven you. Your sins are not going to take away your position as my child". You see, I have this relationship with the Father and He knows me better than I know myself. The fact that I sin does not cheapen the work done on the cross and I`m sure my sin disappoints the Father, but the fact that I sinned again does not change the fact that I am a child forgiven.  Bless Jesus!  Honor to the Lamb of God who died for my sins....past, present, and future. If that fact was not true, then how could any of us mortals ever expect to see heaven? With the exception of Jesus, I don`t know anyone who has not sinned, or can honestly say that they won`t sin again. We are all sinners and try as we might, we can`t change that.....but God can! 

 

Am I saved from my sin? Yep! Will I go to hell if I mess up and sin again? Nope! Jesus told the Father that He had lost none of those given to Him, and then went on to say that God has never lost ANYONE who was in His hand. Jesus has never lost one and God has never lost one!  Wow. How about that for assurance?

 

I am a blessed man, but getting better,

 

Charlie


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#13 Tkulp

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 01:04 AM

Charlie,

 

Thank you for your very clear statement of your faith. It is very sad that without Scripture, in context, most of what you have written is simple your opinion, without clear Scriptural support.  I know that it is not your opinion alone, but it appears to be an opinion that you obviously plan to carry with you into eternity.

 

I fail to comprehend your refusal to respond to the Word of God that clearly states what God thinks about sin.

 

You speak of sinning so lightly and as being already forgiven, because of God's love. Where is the fearful respect for the discipline of God in your writing?  You have not mentioned punishment or repentance in your statement of faith.

 

Where is the punishment, the discipline, so that you want to stop sinning? Hebrews 12:8  "But if you do not experience discipline, something all sons have shared in, then you are illegitimate and are not sons."  ...He disciplines us "for our benefit, that we may share his holiness." If you have no discipline you will not share in His holiness, you will see sin in you life as there would be no reason to strive not to sin, since there is no punishment.

 

According to definition, like it or not, we are both presenting arguments to establish what we believe to be Truth.

 

I have asked you, since you started responding to what I wrote, to please supply me with Scripture and its location that would support your opinions. To please respond to the Word of God. You have not been able to or wanted to take the time to, responded to Scripture given or with Scripture in response.

 

I am very thankful for the Holy Spirit that caused me to think of the biblical phrase, "Come now, and let us reason together...." as I wished to use the word 'reason', as opposed to the use of the word 'argument'.  That was God who was wanting to reason with His children.

 

But before I share what God says, I would like to try to 'reason' with you one more time.

 

In the book of 1 John chapter 1:10 it would appear to support what you believe, that we are all sinners, in a present tense, but you can not base your eternity or anything else very important, on a few sentences out of an entire letter.

 

What John is talking about for ease of understanding is a time line. People are born in sin, they live in sin or holiness and die in one of those two states. "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar..." "All have sinned..."

 

In some lives there may come a time that the individual gets tired of sin, its bondage and its effect on the life. They begin to look for help. If they find it in the Truth of the Word, they repent, clean house and are delivered from the power of sin. Free to make the correct choices, free to reject evil, free to invite the Holy Spirit to live within, to rule, to help keep the flesh under control, to guide the life into all righteousness. This is the gospel I believe, simply put.

 

You, Charlie, believe another gospel, clearly stated in your post above, that does not offer freedom from the power of sin, but instead guarantees to believers eternal life in heaven without any requirements except a mental agreement and confessions of the belief. The cross, in this gospel, was not for deliverance from sinning but was to forgive all sin and cover-up or hid sin from the eyes of a Holy God that can not look on sin and hates sin. Your God 'desires' you to be holy rather than giving you a 'directive' or 'command' to be holy. His unconditional love seals it all, without any responsibility to His words that say, if you love me you will keep my commandments!

 

There is a power, in the world today, to deceive, as an Angel of Light, all those that are looking for the light. The Light is revealed in the Word of God. The Light must be searched for, must be dug out and will be revealed only by the power of the Holy Spirit to truly hungry and humble hearts. "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1Co 2:14   "The eye is the lamp of the body. If then your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is diseased, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness! Mat 6:22-23
 

 

From the Net Bible, here is what the Lord has to say on the subject of sin, both before and after the cross.  I believe it could change your life and anyone's life that will buy salve and ointment for their eyes and ears to be healed and opened to hear and understand the Truth as the Revelation in chapters 2 and 3 encourages those in the churches to repent, lest their candlestick be removed. Rev. 2:5

 

Wash! Cleanse yourselves! Remove your sinful deeds from my sight. Stop sinning!

Learn to do what is right! Promote justice! Give the oppressed reason to celebrate! Take up the cause of the orphan! Defend the rights of the widow!

 

Come, let's consider your options," says the LORD."

 

"Though your sins have stained you like the color red, you can become white like snow; though they are as easy to see as the color scarlet, you can become white like wool.

 

If you have a willing attitude and obey, then you will again eat the good crops of the land. But if you refuse and rebel, you will be devoured by the sword."

 

 Know for certain that the LORD has spoken. Isa 1:16-20

 

 

"Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; indeed, sin is lawlessness.

 

And you know that Jesus was revealed to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. Everyone who resides in him does not sin; everyone who sins has neither seen him nor known him.  

 

Little children, let no one deceive you:

 

The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Jesus is righteous. 

 

The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning.

 

For this purpose the Son of God was revealed: to destroy the works of the devil." 1Jn 3:4-8



#14 Charles Miles

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 02:57 PM

Tim,  Replying to such lengthy posts that seem to be critical of what I believe just tire me!  Maybe we think the same but somewhere got off track, so let me ask you a question or two

 

Are you a sinner?  I mean, do you actually believe you do not sin? I know what God thinks about sin, so you do not have to continue to quote scripture to me. Knowing scripture, quoting verses, and being able to read the Bible are great things and should be done often, but having all that at our fingertips does us no good at all unless we are able to have revelation from Holy Spirit of what it means to us, to me, to you. 

 

  Do you believe that Christ died for your sins?  Which sins? Just how long is that one sacrifice good for? If Jesus is the perfect sacrifice, then the remission of sin is perfect. God still hates sin and always will, it`s just that the perfect sacrifice done once for all, gives me God`s own righteousness.  How long does that sacrifice do this?  Forever!

 

Now, let me try once more. I am a born again child of the living God, who says my sins are remembered by Him no more....so there is everything that has gone on before now! How about from now on? Well Romans 8: 1 does clear that up pretty well.  If these things were not true, Jesus would have to return every day and be crucified for my sins, and let`s both admit here that we do sin...OK.  More sacrifice is not necessary. It was done once for all sin for all time.

 

 This is the Gospel! The good news. Just look at what all God has done for us through the blood sacrifice of Jesus.  All this worry and gloom about sin is a useless waste of time for those of us who accept the substitutionary work of Jesus. I`m free from all that and my ticket to heaven and a life with Jesus has been punched, verified, accepted. 

 

I pray you find peace about this sin problem, which has been dealt with by my Lord.

 

Charlie


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#15 Tkulp

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:50 PM

"Jesus was revealed to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.

 

Everyone who resides in him does not sin;

 

everyone who sins has neither seen Jesus nor known Jesus." 1 John 3:5-6

 

No Charlie, I am not a sinner. I was set free a long time ago when I surrender everything to the Holy Spirit's control. The Holy Spirit, that I have given control of my life, and keeping the helmet of salvation, which is the Word of God, keeps me free from rebellion and disobedience (sin). It is exciting, in some ways, to live under the direction of the Holy Spirit and see the fruit of obedience to His control. In other ways, like seeing people suffering because of choices they make, cause it to be rather painful.

 

Thank you for question regarding sin. As for the remainder of your questions you would have to read and understand the lengthy posts.  I really do not desire you to reply to with opinions, but to compare your beliefs to the scriptures that I give you.

 

The following is another lengthy post. It is an explanation to you, of my comparison of you and Judas. It is also an attempt to help those that had a problem with the rebuke understand my thinking, if they wish to know.

 

Your lack of desire to read and understand the Scriptures would be comparable to the quote from A.W. Tozer below referring to Judas. He spent a lot of time with Jesus, as did Peter, but Judas did not understand Jesus.

 

May God have mercy and forgive you for your choices. I know that you believe that He already has.

 

 

------------------------------------------

 

The following is an explanation or reason for my use of Judas as a reference example.

I do not believe that anyone really thinks about who or what Judas was except that he betrayed Jesus; the worst mistake he ever made.

 

What type of person or character would he have had in order to fit in with the other eleven men? Pretty much, one would think, that he would have resembled the rest in every way.

 

We know that he did everything that all that the rest of the disciples did when Jesus allowed them to experience the power of the Holy Spirit. The all were able to deliver hurting people from evil, both physical, mental and spiritual. He would have experienced the same excitement at seeing sickness and demons yield to the name of Jesus. Judas spent the same amount of time with Jesus as the rest.

 

He is often pictured as shifty eyed, angry, demonic, etc. Is that not a better way to deceive people into believeing that is only that type of people that are going to eternal torment?

 

Do you really believe that is the way the hurting would have pictured him after they were healed or delivered by his touch or words?

 

The poor man that received a gift of money from him could not have seen him as most artists want to picture him. No, I do not believe Judas was an evil or wicked man, just an occasional sinner who's weakness was getting money the easiest way available; of course intending most of the money for the best of uses of caring for the underprivileged.

 

A.W. Tozer is quoted as saying that "Judas Iscariot was not a greatly wicked person, just a common money-lover, and like most money-lovers, he did not understand Christ."

I would add, just an individual that did mostly good, but getting splashed with mud occasionally, when he carelessly walked through a mud puddle. I do not think that Judas was what most people today would call a sinner or evil person. Rather, I believe that he would have been honored for his walk with Jesus!

 

Judas was one of the 12 apostles that were trained and sent out by Jesus, but he had a little character flaw, by today's standards. He had a taste for money that encouraged him to lack the complete integrity he should have had with their communal funds.

 

Having yield to temptation at other times, regarding the funds that he was responsible for, it is possible that it made him a better, potential, tool for Satan, in a one time, bigger play, for easy money.

 

Could he get money from the Pharisees at their expense? The Pharisees were the bad guys anyhow, and he had seen Jesus walk away from a previous attempt of theirs, to kill Him. Why not make some money the next time that they tried to take Jesus.

 

Could Satan have planted the idea that he could lead the Pharisees to Jesus, collect the money, and that Jesus would walk away, from them, as He had on that other occasion? If so, he would have seen no problem when he greeted Jesus with the kiss of friendship as he betrayed Him. He could have seen Jesus as part of the plan to make money.

 

What a shock it was when Jesus did not walk away from the soldiers!! Judas had meant no harm, it was just a little scheme. Surely Jesus already knew about it! Why did he not slip out of their hands and walk away into the night as He was supposed to do? Was Judas convinced that he was really doing good? The money was for the good of everyone, it could be given to help the poor.

 

As Peter had operated under the influence of Satan, to discourage Jesus from going to the cross, why not Judas, under the influence of Satan, believe that there would be no way that Jesus would allow Himself to be captured, to be killed?

 

We know his remorse and devastation when he learned about his mistake and the truth of what was going to happen. Judas did everything that came to his mind to make restitution. Finding that this was not working he did the final selfish act; he ended his life, thinking that was the easiest way out, rather than repentance and facing Jesus and the others, as Peter did.

 

Once Satan can get you to believe a little lie, you are caught in a web that leads to death, unless you humble your self and come face to face with Truth in sincere repentance.

 

How does that apply to you, Charlie? We had communicated for some time under a forum that Kevin B had started.  I came to realize that you had no desire to read, study the Bible or the Scriptures that I was sharing with you. It would take a miricale to revel truth to your heart.

 

I believe that like Judas you had no thought of what you were doing in commenting, here, in a forum that was about a Tozer devotional that talked about dealing with Truth and those that hate Truth.

 

I was being put to the test in reference to the devotional. According to popular opinion I would have failed that test, but no one picked up on that. They were to busy agreeing with your error and what I had to say about it. It is also possible that no one really understood or even read the devotional.

 

Here is what Tozer said, "Wherever and whenever truth gets itself incarnated in a man, that man is sure to become the target for every kind of opposition from the casual barbed insult of a professed friend to the carefully prepared campaign of the avowed enemy. The problem this creates for the man of truth is how to accept these attacks in the spirit of charity, how to keep cool and patient when all his old natural reflexes urge him to strike back with every weapon at his command."

 

I had not noticed this part of Tozer's  devotional until the day I felt to write to you about Judas.

 

Was what I wrote to you a strike-back at your thoughtless, innocent comments regarding casual sinning?  ...or...  Was what I wrote a sober and  serious warning from the Holy Spirit against the false ideas, on sin, that you are spreading to the world? I will personally leave that decision in the hands of the Judge.

 

If the scripture that was given to me by Godly people in the days following my post was any indication for being right or wrong; I would say what I wrote to you was a very sober and serious wake-up call.  Those individuals had absolutely no idea what I was dealing with on the web or in my mind.

 

I know that the vast majority of the church world of today, believe and teach what you share and believe. The deception has been around for a very long time. It started in the garden of Eden. "Surely you wont die!"

 

What I wrote, previously, was mainly for those that support and applaud the belief that we can never be delivered from sin. It really has its roots in the spirit of anti-Christ. Being against the truth of who Jesus was and is, and His real intimate relationship to the Father. That He was and is our example to follow in order to live with Him for eternity.

 

I considered you a friend, from our private sharing, that needs to be warned along with the multitudes of other deceived believers.

 

The Truth is hidden in the Bible, if you are willing to dig it out and allow the Holy Spirit to teach you. (Jesus said that is why He spoke in parables.)

 

The choice of who or what you believe is up to each individual. The Bible says that those who gain the Kingdom must take it by force, that is to say, with a  serious passion.

 

I hope that this gives you a better understanding of why I referred to Judas, in connection with what you did.

 

People that believe they must continue in sin, little or big, after accepting Christ as their deliverer, are fulfilling what Paul said to Timothy regarding the last days.

 

"For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, savage, opposed to what is good,  treacherous, reckless, conceited, loving pleasure rather than loving God."

 

"They will maintain the outward appearance of religion but will have repudiated its power. So avoid people like these."

 

Repudiated (1. cast off  2. Refuse to acknowledge, ratify, or recognize as valid.) its power!

Power... (the word used here comes from G1410; meaning to be able or possible);Power means,  force; specifically miraculous power.

 

What greater miraculous power could there be, but to be, set free from the power of sin, willfully choosing to become slaves of righteousness, as Paul taught.

 

Choose you this day who you will serve! You can not have or serve two masters!

 

You can not live in darkness and light at the same time! One condition or the other is true in every human being. The Holy Spirit is in absolute control or the flesh and selfishness is in control.

 

 

Tim



#16 Jesus_Lolly

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 03:21 AM

Hi Charles. I haven’t been in here in a very long time either. In fact, I don’t know what made me stop in this time.  Frankly I’m stunned to see this forum taken over by one person allowed to do so. Seems to be the way of things though. I’ve seen this too many times and it’s likely why I stopped posting in forums. There’s always that one who thinks he or she is the only one who knows THE TRUTH and wields it like a weapon against everyone else. Kind of a shame really. I once had a very painful experience with a religious tyrant but it was an essential learning curve in the important skill of discernment.

 

Good to read your words again, dear heart. 

 

I leave with this thought - the day comes when we are challenged to speak out. Guess it was my turn.

I too have wondered why the moderator has not stepped in to stifle the abuse. I stopped reading the comments on this board because I could no longer stand to read the sadistic comments of the "ruler" of this forum. Certainly, one with spiritual discernment would recognize the cruel nature of this tyrant? 

 

I applaud you Charlie for your willingness to extend grace to the graceless. 


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#17 ADVRider

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 07:11 AM

There is a real simple answer to this topic. Is any human perfect? Simply yes or no. Be careful how you answer. 



#18 Candice

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 10:04 AM

YES. Jesus and any believer who trusts in Him for that perfection. Must he that qualifier though

#19 ADVRider

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 10:16 AM

YES. Jesus and any believer who trusts in Him for that perfection. Must he that qualifier though

Hi Candice,

 

I was referring not to what the Lord imputes to us through His sacrifice as much as human beings in their nature. Another way to ask the question is, are we completely perfect now, in ourselves? 



#20 Candice

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 01:26 PM

ADVRider,  I would say "yes" cause we're already seated in the heavenlies.  It is a great hope to look to this; and I don't always have that hope in me.