13 replies to this topic

[Candice]

Quoting a fairly famous Christian writer, "Feat is Satan's calling card.  And whenever you accept his calling card, you receive a visit from him.  If you reject his calling card, you drive him away.  Fear him, and he comes; fear not, and he is kept away.  Therefore, refuse to be afraid!  This is especially true of nervous people. But, remember, these [fearful] thoughts come from Satan and must be resisted.

 

We all know the obvious verses attached to this context, i.e. from James, "Resist the devil and he will flee..."  Etc.

 

What do you think?  is this all there is to it, besides prayer and being in the word?

[chipped china]

Hi Candice, Funny you should bring this up. I'm reading the Watchman Nee Resisting the Devil and he talks about that scripture and how we need to believe what the scripture says. If we face satan and tell him to flee, he will and we don't have to do it over and over if we have faith. Also he speaks about keeping out eyes on the Lord and not to listen to our self talk. Good stuff. love, bets

[Meema]

The world is a scary place - sometimes. The great unknown, the what-ifs, the life altering possibilities press in on us daily. We are wide open to all manner of attacks from that which gives birth to paralyzing fear. Certain personality types are simply bent toward fearing everything no matter what.

My mother-in-law was constructed to fret over everything. As she aged and became more paranoid she demanded that everyone else pander to her fears as well. We then had to anticipate that she was afraid of something and therefore were required to accommodate it. I noticed that the task of staying alert to her fears inspired my own kind of fear - fear of not being constantly cognizant of her fears. It was debilitating. I finally had to address it. I had to make her understand that her worrying was just a coping mechanism and, in fact, a substitution for prayer.  Worry was her low-level, ineffectual kind of prayer. There was a mindless disconnect. It was more habit than anything else. The kind that leaves God out of the process. Fear and worry is totally dependent on one’s devotion to the act of fear and worry, as though if one didn’t worry the very worst absolutely would happen.

I counseled her that if we say we are faithful we have to then actually be faithful. The state of being is far more fruit-bearing than simply spouting good sounding words. Action speak louder than words. 

My epiphany on this issue of worry and fear came somewhere in my early fifties. During a particularly stressful family crisis, God led me to Oswald Chambers devotional, My Utmost for His Highest, wherein I learned about the state of ‘being’ God’s will, not just wishing and praying that I might ‘do’ His will.

When you are surrendered, meaning you are empty of self-motivation and realization, you are willing to waive your rights to yourself, you might be faced with a fearsome situation, perhaps even life of death. You might have a moment where you stop to consider if a thing should or should not be done now and again but even in occasional quandary where the answer will not come, if you are girded up with an under garment of faith–you can count on the guarantee that walking out into a void God will make a step or give you wings. If you don’t believe that, then you do not understand faith and basically you are saying that God can do anything except help you in your distress. Not to put too fine a point on it but that’s kinda blasphemous, is it not?

All things come together for good for those who love the Lord.

Chambers said it like this: 

Our thinking about prayer, whether right or wrong, is based on our own mental conception of it. The correct concept is to think of prayer as the breath in our lungs and the blood from our hearts. Our blood flows and our breathing continues “without ceasing”; we are not even conscious of it, but it never stops. And we are not always conscious of Jesus keeping us in perfect oneness with God, but if we are obeying Him, He always is. Prayer is not an exercise, it is the life of the saint. Beware of anything that stops the offering up of prayer. “Pray without ceasing . . .”— maintain the childlike habit of offering up prayer in your heart to God all the time.

I can’t tell anyone else how to get to this place. But I can say, it does exist, this condition where you don’t have to be afraid anymore. Everything that is good or appears to be, everything that is bad or appears to be, works out so long as the intent is to glorify Him in everything you do or don’t do.

 

For Him,

Meema

[Candice]

"When you are surrendered, meaning you are empty of self-motivation and realization, you are willing to waive your rights to yourself, you might be faced with a fearsome situation, perhaps even life of death. You might have a moment where you stop to consider if a thing should or should not be done now and again but even in occasional quandary where the answer will not come, if you are girded up with an under garment of faith–you can count on the guarantee that walking out into a void God will make a step or give you wings. If you don’t believe that, then you do not understand faith and basically you are saying that God can do anything except help you in your distress. Not to put too fine a point on it but that’s kinda blasphemous, is it not?"

I'm definitely not your mother-inlaw. Yet, I have not arrived at "perfection"!! I guess I'm a blasphemer now. Well, that was it all along and I didn't know it.

I thought blasphemy was outright rejection of the Spirit of God. You know, aimed at the Jews who refused to receive their Savior.

Hmmm. Perhaps sticking with the scriptures trumps experiences of the longest and broadest sense. Like, there is an enemy and he is referred to a lot - Satan, the one of many names. Stick with this line please; not Maslow, et al nor the existential. I'm am not of like mind to this.

[Meema]

Candice, I’m sorry if you took what I said personally. I was responding generically to your question regarding fear. You asked if there was more to dealing with fear than simply reading Scripture. It is never my intention to offend anyone. 

 

If I have not misunderstood your response the word blasphemy distressed you. So, allow me say it another way. 

 

I am acutely sensitive to and on the alert to things I might do that grieves God. It hit me one day like a ton of bricks falling in on me that we are forever looking inward, taking our spiritual temperatures, calculating how righteous we are or are not, studying and noting all the ways we do or do not align with the ‘sanctified life’. We stew and foment over doctrine, men’s words and opinions and interpretations of the Word. We fill our days striving to become. Striving. To. Become. We fret and worry over our circumstances and wonder why God won’t or can’t improve our lot in life. But we never stop to wonder if all our striving hurts or grieves God. Well, once the dust settled from the bricks crashing down, I realized, yes, we can and do hurt Jesus. From my perspective that is another form of blasphemy. 

 

We strive because we are looking inward. When what we ought to do is look outward and upward to Him. To seek to know Him even before we desire to serve Him. 

 

“..our misgivings begin within ourselves when we tell Jesus that our circumstances are just a little too difficult for Him. We say, ‘It’s easy to say, ’Trust in the Lord,’ but a person has to live; and besides, Jesus has nothing with which to draw water— no means to be able to give us these things.’ And beware of exhibiting religious deceit by saying, ‘Oh, I have no misgivings about Jesus, only misgivings about myself.’ If we are honest, we will admit that we never have misgivings or doubts about ourselves, because we know exactly what we are capable or incapable of doing. But we do have misgivings about Jesus. And our pride is hurt even at the thought that He can do what we can’t. My misgivings arise from the fact that I search within to find how He will do what He says. My doubts spring from the depths of my own inferiority. If I detect these misgivings in myself, I should bring them into the light and confess them openly— ‘Lord, I have had misgivings about You. I have not believed in Your abilities, but only my own. And I have not believed in Your almighty power apart from my finite understanding of it.’ ” -Oswald Chambers

I am over the hump. Been there done that. Should I stay silent then? I am trying to share this experience with anyone who truly wants to find the peace of letting go of being fretful, fearful and worried. I believe that sharing personal experience is far more edifying than simply spouting platitudes and quoting Scripture. I can copy/paste Scripture in a post or I can express how I apply the Scripture to my daily life. Isn’t this the true value of Christian fellowship? 

I tell you the truth. I’m weary but not because I’ve been in the wilderness a long time but because I find that the hard lessons I learned there are rarely welcome in the mainstream because they are too tough. It is a reality where there is both a pain and a joy because while it serves to keep me an outsider, I am better able to identify with the hurt that Christ felt and still feels. 

He wants His Remnant to listen and hear and receive but we prefer to hang on to our habits of religion, and self-trust. He wants us to lay all of our worry and fear and confusion at His feet and trust Him. To be willing to say, I will trust Him though He slay me. If one can say that sincerely where does fear and worry come in?

“ ‘Let not your heart be troubled . . .’ (14:1, 27). Am I then hurting Jesus by allowing my heart to be troubled? If I believe in Jesus and His attributes, am I living up to my belief? Am I allowing anything to disturb my heart, or am I allowing any questions to come in which are unsound or unbalanced? I have to get to the point of the absolute and unquestionable relationship that takes everything exactly as it comes from Him. God never guides us at some time in the future, but always here and now. Realize that the Lord is here now, and the freedom you receive is immediate.” ~Oswald Chambers.

For Him,

Meema

[Julie Daube]

Candice, thanks for introducing this topic and soliciting our feedback. As you know, this is a subject that hits very close to home with me! In answer to your question, "What do you think? is this all there is to it, besides prayer and being in the word?", I would say it is also helpful to remind ourselves that Satan is a defeated foe and that he is far more afraid of us than we should be of him. Beyond just praying, I have found that doing spiritual warfare (directly addressing the strongholds and demonic assignments and rebuking them in the name of Jesus) is very effective and empowering. In addition, I've heard it said that visualizing God's answer to our prayers is also helpful in overcoming fear. So when I am praying for a loved one's healing, instead of picturing them in their hospital bed, I will create a mental image of the person getting up out of bed and being released from the hospital.

Meema, I so appreciate your insights. As someone who is still in the process of overcoming the strongholds of fear and anxiety, I found that your thoughts really resonated with me. Interestingly, I too have a mother-in-law who programmed herself to fret and worry about everything. When my husband and I try to counsel her to stop worrying, she always says, "I can't help it. All old people worry." She is basically saying that she has no free will and no self-control.

On that note, I am convinced that worrying is a choice. And every time we pray, we are choosing not to worry but to trust God. I also agree with you that worrying is a coping mechanism (at least it has been for me, and I confess that my worrying has too often replaced praying).

"He wants His Remnant to listen and hear and receive but we prefer to hang on to our habits of religion, and self-trust. He wants us to lay all of our worry and fear and confusion at His feet and trust Him." You hit the nail right on the head here - worry is ultimately about self-trust. When we worry, we are focusing on what we can do to solve the problem instead of trusting God to solve it.

[ADVRider]

Candice,

 

I think it's good to consider that we all have weaknesses in our lives of many kinds and degrees. The beauty is, God is already aware of it. Yes, fear is a crippler and stronghold against faith. The enemy of our souls does use it as a major force in the world.

 

Paul the Apostle himself struggled with many things, including fear at times. But his beautiful truth, "When I am weak, then I am strong," is often not understood, IMO. Not saying I have it down though, either. Somehow though, we read that and it usually gets interpolated (automatically) like this: "When I am weak, I must be strong." But Paul, through much hardship and difficulty (perhaps what Meema sometimes calls the Wilderness) learned a truth. He came to the place where he "took pleasure" in his infirmities and struggles. Yikes! I am not there yet either.

 

I just want to encourage you, to yes, stand on the Word and believe, but may the focus of that believing be on Him, not your own strength to get you through to breakthrough or deliverance over some particular struggle. I've quoted many a verse in my day only to realize I was trying to pull myself up by my own bootstraps. You've heard me say this before. But we cannot change without the power of Christ, and yes, believing the scripture is part of that, but not all of it. The missing ingredient most of the time is coming to the place where we acknowledge to ourselves and the Father that we struggle and are helpless without His aid--utterly helpess. We must also acknowledge we have no business deciding what our life is supposed to look like or that we know what is important to God. We must let Him show us and let Him take care of our weakness. The Father wants us helpless; however we do not like it one bit. Guess which posture gets the victory? Not the "I am in control" one. Does this sound weird or unscriptural? A cursory reading of the NT will show this is the meat of discipleship. We follow the Master and submit to Him, all, including our thoughts. Aren't we blessed that there is One, to whom we can legitimately surrender even our thoughts, weaknesses and sins, and not be abused? There is no other to whom we can give ourselves this fully, and not be hurt. But we know God is faithful and will never harm us. However, because we were born fallen, this is scary. Letting go. Hmm. "Let me think about it. It is hard to trust, and futhermore, I am aware there is something amiss." "I'd better fix it before the One with whom I have to do, sees it."  Here is the worst part. The enemy that likes to instill and use fear? This cycle we go through in our mind is the very thing he uses to create all fear: "There is something wrong with me and so I must fix it." The original source of fear, starting with the original sin of Adam. And the awareness of our condition (weakness). So again, believe, but believe only in the fact that you and me are powerless in ourselves (helpless), and that we must cry out for the deliverance that can only come from the Father through His Son. Scripture quoting without this process of real surrender and reliance will do nothing, and the enemy knows it. The authority behind our words comes when the Holy Spirit has come along side through our submission of our weakness to the Lord, Then, the Word of God joins the Spirit of God to seal the victory. Key here is, the inner work has to take place before it manifests outwardly.

 

It is not that you don't know this. Yet it's a pespective that our flesh is not comfortable with. It's humbling. It's a struggle. It's a wrestling match. It's a match of will. It's an avoidance of brokeness and pain. It's an avoidance of painful realities. It's periods of silent struggle and lack of understanding. It's times of no answers. It's all of these and more at times. But the purpose? So that our faith rests not on ourselves (or others), but in the power, mercy and love of God. The reality and truth of God. Is our weakness painful or a mighty struggle at times? Excruciatingly so. But the process will put to death certain things that need to die. And then real life, real victory, can flower forth in some area of our life because God has wrought it. And it will bear fruit and last. And so, God will be the Life for us, not just the way. So with Paul, let us learn (notice I said learn), to rejoice in our weaknesses, because that is the place where we truly learn the strength of our Lord. Paradoxical yes, difficult, yes. Humbling, yes. But life-giving, yes. "My son (daughter), do not despise the chastening of the Lord....That we may be partakers of His holiness." Candice, all of this is God's doing and it is by His grand design. Learn to embrace it, and I say that in the most sincere way. He is right with us in the midst of our struggle and wants to lift our burdens. But we have to let go, in order for them, to go. God does not want or need our effort or striving to be good. In fact, it is an obstacle to the freedom that can only come from giving up (surrender) all self-effort in spiritual life matters. The Lord would say, cease from your labors and take my yoke upon you. Then you will find rest for your souls.

[CHRISTOPHER310]

.

[Kevin Blankenship]

Huh?.....anyway......Candace.......fear/worry has been my (and I am ONLY SPEAKING FOR ME in this reply. Which comes natural for me because ME seems to be my favorite subject matter.

   There was a period of time a couple of years back when I was  constantly worrying myself to death. I was still doing the Care-Giving thing and my mother was as good as could be expected (health and mental-wise).

     So, I dod what I always do in situations where a certain emotion (or mountain) has got ahold of my behind........I do a subject study of the Bible. Of course I read the old classics. But when I need a REAL answer to a REAL problem.......I go to the "Manual for running the human machine" as C.S. Lewis put it.

   First scripture I find?  I John 4:18 "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love."   I found in this scripture, and in a prayerful reading of it, that somehow I might be lacking in the knowledge of the Love of Jesus......in a more.....tangible? or realistic?....way.  In other words.....I had/ still have  the incorrect perspective of Jesus Christ.  The first thing that I did was take a quick inventory of my life and see if I owed anyone any amends. I wanted to "make them right" and do so right away. Because "fear has to do with judgement."   So, having found none, I set about the next item of interest: "Perfect love cast out fear."    I had to ask myself: Is John talking about MY love towards people.....or about Jesus' love towards me?  Or both.  So I safely assumed that both where "issues" that I need to deal with and buy "dealing" I meant, prayer, and more prayer. Persistent prayer, as Jesus taught us in the gospels, using more than ONE parable.

    I can say today, that fear doesn't trouble me as it did in times past. I use to DREAD my sisters coming in for a visit because they would frequently come 'hopped up on pills" or.....when the left,  a day later......there would always be some small appliance missing. My moter was OCD about buying stuff (AHEM!.....much like me....lol) and she had about 11 clothes irons. All nice....and all working. She has NONE now.  She had a bunch of "designer" high dollar purses.  NONE NOW.  My sisters where filling their overnite bags with loot to which they had no right. (Now, I speak as momma's Durable Power of Attorney)  Back to fear.  It is MY opinion, that if FEAR is not a physiological thing.......to be treated by a person in the medical profession.....preferably without benzodiazepines........then it is largely a Spiritual thing. Perhaps a situation (as in my case) of where I was uninstructed about the "things of God"....namely...."Just how much He loves me". And that goes hand in hand with my last scripture ref in Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."   I believe that Jesus, here is referring to a healthy fear.   Such as I have for eastern diamondback rattlesnakes.  I could let my fear of them keep me out of the forest in the summer. But I do NOT.  I merely keep a close eye out on the ground plus I wear snake-proof boots ('bout a hunnerd bucks).   Anyway, my 2 cents. Hope I worded all of that right. Peace   Kevin

[Candice]

I just want to encourage you, to yes, stand on the Word and believe, but may the focus of that believing be on Him, not your own strength to get you through to breakthrough or deliverance over some particular struggle. I've quoted many a verse in my day only to realize I was trying to pull myself up by my own bootstraps. You've heard me say this before. But we cannot change without the power of Christ, and yes, believing the scripture is part of that, but not all of it. The missing ingredient most of the time is coming to the place where we acknowledge to ourselves and the Father that we struggle and are helpless without His aid--utterly helpess. We must also acknowledge we have no business deciding what our life is supposed to look like or that we know what is important to God. We must let Him show us and let Him take care of our weakness. The Father wants us helpless; however we do not like it one bit. Guess which posture gets the victory? Not the "I am in control" one. Does this sound weird or unscriptural? A cursory reading of the NT will show this is the meat of discipleship. We follow the Master and submit to Him, all, including our thoughts. Aren't we blessed that there is One, to whom we can legitimately surrender even our thoughts, weaknesses and sins, and not be abused? There is no other to whom we can give ourselves this fully, and not be hurt. But we know God is faithful and will never harm us. However, because we were born fallen, this is scary. Letting go. Hmm. "Let me think about it. It is hard to trust, and futhermore, I am aware there is something amiss." "I'd better fix it before the One with whom I have to do, sees it." Here is the worst part. The enemy that likes to instill and use fear? This cycle we go through in our mind is the very thing he uses to create all fear: "There is something wrong with me and so I must fix it." The original source of fear, starting with the original sin of Adam. And the awareness of our condition (weakness). So again, believe, but believe only in the fact that you and me are powerless in ourselves (helpless), and that we must cry out for the deliverance that can only come from the Father through His Son. Scripture quoting without this process of real surrender and reliance will do nothing, and the enemy knows it. The authority behind our words comes when the Holy Spirit has come along side through our submission of our weakness to the Lord, Then, the Word of God joins the Spirit of God to seal the victory. Key here is, the inner work has to take place before it manifests outwardly.
John Albert
I agree wholeheartedly. Just that the word is a basis of truth v other things that distract. I'm thinking of purpose drive life et al

[Candice]

Kevin
I know you've read Watchman Née and this quote of the thread is from his writings
I believe fear has greatly subsided in my life but I know it can be situational.
Reading the word helps to keep my foundation strong and the fighting of fear comes from knowing the truth hence my other post on the word.
Also, reading The Power of Right Believing was helpful for sorting through what the word says about my position in Christ. I know you read this book as well. Perhaps it helped you with fear?

[ADVRider]

Hi Candice,

You are right. God's word is the only basis of truth for our lives. I was trying to suggest in this, and the other thread, that we hear the Word, believe the Word, but then the Word has to be applied to our heart to produce an affect. As my friend says, it has to drop 18" and be walked-out. As I have come to see it, there is a lot of "Word" being preached and taught all over, but how much is digested and absorbed into the body? James even said, it's not the hearers of the Word, but the doers who are changed. (This doing, BTW, is not referring to works, but simply obedience to the Spirit's leading as He emphasizes what truth He wants us to obey or apply. It's not try harder, self-directed attempts at growth or being "spiritual.") Thought I should add that because we really do often try to "sew fig leaves," and that isn't what God is looking for. He is simply looking for trust, love and obedience to His leading.

I know you have expressed concern with experiences that could appear non-biblical. But I think people here are simply referring to the Holy Spirit and a relationship with Him. We cannot live the Christian life without the Holy Spirit. So my main point about God's Word was that we shouldn't approach the Bible as if it is a dry text book, and it tells us everything we need to know. It does, but only as applied and quickened (Good old KJV word, eh?) by the Spirit, the Living God. Many groups teach we only have the Word; no more to God than His Word. His Word is Him, they say. Well, not exactly. He is a Person too, who still speaks and acts today. But yes, and finally, this relationship is all based on His Word, recorded for all peoples. But God is more than a book, although that is all some Christians know of Him. They know of no Holy Spirit and their understanding of God is limited to their human exegesis. All Word, dry up. All Spirit, blow up. Word and Spirit, grow up. Someone once said.

P.S. I've seen all the Purpose Driven life stuff, but I've never read sny of it, so I do not know what it's about.

[Kevin Blankenship]

Yes Candace, I read Prince's Power of Right Believing and found it to be useful. Also, the Watchman Nee books.  I was all "Watchman Nee this, Watchman Nee that" for a long while. I really felt the genuineness of his writings and my mind was open to receive what he said.

   Both books, (the ones you mentioned) helped me greatly with everyday fear of the unknown.

  As another book that I have read, through and through, says: "It (fear) was an evil and corroding thread; the fabric of our existence was shot through with it. It set in motion trains of circumstances which brought us misfortune we felt we didn't deserve. But did not we, ourselves, set the ball rolling? Sometimes we think fear ought to be classed with stealing. It seems to cause more trouble."

    The recovering person (from substance addiction) knows all too well about fear. And fear of fear. Etc Etc. The above excerpt is from the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. It has much to say about fear and with a spiritual slant, as the entire AA program was fully Christian as long as the co-founders where still alive and making sure eveything was in line. But I realize that the AA book can be shot through by all sorts of theologians that inhabit these forums, so I am not making a case for the book (other than to say that it saved my life......literally.....that is to say.....God USED it to save my life). Then, it's usefulness was finished and it was time to move up into God's Word.  But I severely digress. And I apologize for so doing.

[noel1234]

Perfect love casts out fear. Whenever I am confronted with fear, I focus on the "perfect love" part of this verse ... What is perfect love? The only one capable of loving perfectly is Christ Himself, who lives in us. So I find I can overcome fear when I face it in the strength of Christ. I can cast out fear with perfect love when I realize it is not my love, but the very love of Christ that overcomes fear.