21 replies to this topic

[E.J.]

We do this not just when it’s convenient or when it suits us to do God’s work; we do it even when we see no good reasons for doing it, when it is very inconvenient for our flesh, when it is unreasonable to our natural mind, and even when we see many reasons to do just the opposite. We still do it even when it seems painful, harmful or shameful, simply because God demands it. And so we prefer God’s pure Word and will more than our own reasoning and insight.

 

 

Came across this in a book I'm reading and was one that hit me deeply in my spirit. A laying down of oneself for the advancement and glory of God; our greatest aim.

 

Added to the reality that life is not a playground, its a battleground.

 

Just thought I'd share.

 

In Christ,

E.J.

[Candice]

Hi EJ,

Glad to hear from you. It's been quite a while.

This is a good word. Whether we like it or not, it is true. But, often, at least for me, it is knowing when to walk away. Can we really live the Gospel and cast our pearls without end?? This is the question I put to God daily.

It seems the telling of the Gospel has somewhat turned into loving tolerance and acceptance in order to be light and salt. However, this does not appear to be the biblical instruction. Aren't we to go, share verbally (yes, of course living it too) and if rejected just shake off the dust and move on. By moving on, we increase the touch factor. Or, is the difficulty in flying the coop or staying?? Maybe I'm just in a place of intolerance to overt sin and rejection of Christ by all family. Nothing left to say or do by me seems the way The Lord is leading me lately.

On Tuesday I am to restart a bible study and the leader asked someone to share leading her group. This gal who would co-lead lives with her boyfriend and has other active sin stuff (won't list it). It seems there's no longer any discernment in the body of Christ. How can we really go on like this?? The church is truly fading into the sunset due to tolerance IMHO.

Blessings
Candice

[Kenny]

We do this not just when it’s convenient or when it suits us to do God’s work; we do it even when we see no good reasons for doing it, when it is very inconvenient for our flesh, when it is unreasonable to our natural mind, and even when we see many reasons to do just the opposite. We still do it even when it seems painful, harmful or shameful, simply because God demands it. And so we prefer God’s pure Word and will more than our own reasoning and insight.

 

 

Came across this in a book I'm reading 

 

Could you share with us the name of the book and the author?

[chipped china]

That's interesting Candice. My first reaction was how can that be???? Bible study co-leader fornicating? Then again I have to take the log out of my own eye first. Lust, (not adultery) has been my biggest downfall since I was young. I finally had to remove men from my life so I wouldn't sin. Like you said the part that gets me the most is that the Body isn't calling her on it. People certainly let me know and even if I didn't heed it at the moment it stuck in my heart. And finally that sin has been plucked from my body.

 

So I ask myself are other women privately dealing with these things? Have you gently brought it up? And if not, why? I'm not judging you.... just trying to understand. How do we heed the Holy Spirit and Gods commands without damaging His Body? We all fall short and our sins may not show so blatantly. I don't want to stone anyone but the bible does say the church is to confront the person and if they still don't heed, make them leave. This is a study I need to do and make sure I understand.

 

Blessings bets 

[E.J.]

The Path of True Godliness by Willem Teellinck

 

I think what a lot of people are doing, and sadly most of them are within the church, is confusing Gods tolerance with His patience. Of course, with a spirit of love we are to confront and rebuke those who are living in sin; key word; living. To not do so is to not love them.

 

Chipped China; in reference to the plank in your own eye - I turn your attention to Matthew 7:5.

 

First take the beam out of your own eye; and THEN you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brothers eye.

 

You see, it is impossible to go thru life without judging, it is part of our nature. A lot of times we like to label it discernment. But 'judging' is more so of casting condemnation upon a person. The Lord does not say not to judge; we take it out of context. In fact, in this passage above he says take the beam out and THEN you will be able to see clearly to take the speck out of your brothers eye.

[Kenny]

The Path of True Godliness by Willem Teellinck

 

 

 

Wow,  Willem Teellinck, one of the old Reformers from the 16th century. This is the first I have heard of him.

[chipped china]

Well said, thank you EJ

[E.J.]

You are very welcome......

 

I find it difficult to believe that after 2000 years of church history and our fathers in the faith that have gone before us that we would stumble upon 'new' truths.......

[Candice]

That's interesting Candice. My first reaction was how can that be???? Bible study co-leader fornicating? Then again I have to take the log out of my own eye first. Lust, (not adultery) has been my biggest downfall since I was young. I finally had to remove men from my life so I wouldn't sin. Like you said the part that gets me the most is that the Body isn't calling her on it. People certainly let me know and even if I didn't heed it at the moment it stuck in my heart. And finally that sin has been plucked from my body.
 
So I ask myself are other women privately dealing with these things? Have you gently brought it up? And if not, why? I'm not judging you.... just trying to understand. How do we heed the Holy Spirit and Gods commands without damaging His Body? We all fall short and our sins may not show so blatantly. I don't want to stone anyone but the bible does say this church is to confront the person and if they still don't heed, make them leave. This is a study I need to do and make sure I understand.
 
Blessings bets

This bible study for women is not at my church but is open to any denomination. The pastors wife who organizes it probably does not know and I do not know the gal well enough to say a thing to her. Lots of people have left that church because this kind of thing goes on and on lots with no confrontation.

I had huge lust issues with men too - it would be shocking. That and several other sin strongholds like excessive alcohol use (ocassional) drugs and lying all part of my past. Praise God He has (and he alone) has removed those. However, still struggle with the sins of anxiety and depression which are really due to disconnect with God if not in His presence A LOT and no self reliance. I am no saint and have never been. I know I'm a saint in Christ but still in my flesh all the time

I don't feel I can approach this leader because The Lord Himself has not instructed me to go beyond Him but to get into another group there with different leader. They will (church leaders and pastors) be corrected by Him. Or, I may just go elsewhere. I don't know if if I love some people enough to do the tattletale detail on everyone

Betsy, I'm so glad Christ blessed you by removing the sin from you. It is truly freeing huh??

[Candice]

EJ, thank you for the book title. Good post to ponder.

Candice

[chipped china]

Candice,

 

It's funny how we tend to think we're the only ones who deal with sin. There are certain people who understood God's ways all their lives but I wasn't one of them. We can always serve as a terrible warning, lol. I don't laugh in disrespect, what can you say when you were a strong willed wild child. I do know the depths of despair and how fall the Lord has lifted me up. I'm so grateful it's beyond words. Knowing Jesus is the best thing that's ever happened to me. I ponder sometimes why me.. why would I choose Him? I know He called me first but why would I respond when someone else won't. It's not because I'm better or more loved. I'm just full of questions tonight.

 

And for not feeling God is directing you to speak to the woman. I get it and wonder how I would handle that situation if someone in my bible study were doing the same thing. We are fairly open with each other and besides some going through divorces I've never had the feeling overt sin was going on. Funny I should word it that way. We all sin, the difference is when I sin I feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit and ask for forgiveness or give to Him until I finally do.

 

Yes, it is nice being freed from lust. The trade off is sometimes I miss having a soul mate. I figure if the Lord wants to give me someone He will but I'm not looking on my own.

[Kenny]

You are very welcome......

 

I find it difficult to believe that after 2000 years of church history and our fathers in the faith that have gone before us that we would stumble upon 'new' truths.......

 

 I don't find it difficult to believe. After all, the Reformation came to a stand still and was never actually completed. 

[Charles Miles]

Candice,

 

You do have so much to offer leading a Bible study that I cringe when the opportunity presents ittself and an obsticle immediately arises that seems insurmountable.  We all know where this obsticle came from and who the author is.  Certainly you cannot discuss this problem at the Bible study, but maybe you and this other lady could meet to "go over what we plan to study".  Maybe a suitable prayer for the start of such a meeting with her would be.."Lord as we present ourselves as vessels for your word, please clean these vessels as only You can so yor word may be heard clearly by those attending". Maybe, just maybe one of the ones that learns the most and is brought under conviction just might be one of the teachers!  I always want to serve the Lord, but He knows and I do also, that I have flaws and I am a sinner saved by His grace.  I try to "clean up my act" as best as I can but often fail.  God says he forgave my sins and He remembers them no more, so who am I to bring them up agagin?  Now, if I ask forgiveness but continue in the same sin without any change at all, an no remorse, then there is a definite problem with my repentance and faith.  I can`t claim the gifts of the Kingdom and not do my best to act like His child.  God often does use people who have not known Him and use them in great ways.  Cyrus,..etc. 

 

My advice, go teach the Bible study and consider it a gift of love to the Father.  It has always been my experience that in teaching a class, I learn more than the students.     Have a Happy New Year...God loves you.

 

Charlie

[E.J.]

Kenny,

 

It is probably due to me not articulating my point clearly and leaving some confusion.

 

I am not speaking specifically to a movement such as the Reformation, I was more so speaking in generalities. Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls (Jeremiah 6:16). We have in these days we live now, professing Christians within the church, adhering to, and advancing in the unbiblical ideas of annihiliation and universalism; completely unbiblical.

 

Of course those ideas are not the only ones, but two that are evident.

 

We as a people, need to get back to seeking the face of God in Jesus Christ. All-out surrender. Of course, we can not do this in our own power, for nothing we build or try to sustain in our own power will ever last. I look back to these "old paths" and I see men and women holding prayer meetings 5 days a week at church. I see them together, in one accord, praying down heaven upon earth. Now, we meet in a bulding once a week for "church" and maybe have a couple social getherings during the week and expect the power of God to move mightily. God so longs to relash His glorious power upon His people; but He wont until we seek His face. And of course there are those by His grace that are certaintly running full steem after God, and growing in godliness and holiness everyday. You know, one thing i am very certain about; although God may call one of us to Pastor, one to go ona  mission trip, one to sing in a chior; in whatever specific area or arena you are called, be certain that each and everyone of us is called to holiness.

 

Just some thoughts this afternoon

I pray this day, in which He has made, that each of us becomes more conformed unto His likeness and image. Help us O God, in Jesus name.

[Candice]

My advice, go teach the Bible study and consider it a gift of love to the Father. It has always been my experience that in teaching a class, I learn more than the students. Have a Happy New Year...God loves you.

Charlie

I'm not one of the two coleading. Just attending.

[Candice]

Kenny,

It is probably due to me not articulating my point clearly and leaving some confusion.

I am not speaking specifically to a movement such as the Reformation, I was more so speaking in generalities. Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls (Jeremiah 6:16). We have in these days we live now, professing Christians within the church, adhering to, and advancing in the unbiblical ideas of annihiliation and universalism; completely unbiblical.

Of course those ideas are not the only ones, but two that are evident.

We as a people, need to get back to seeking the face of God in Jesus Christ. All-out surrender. Of course, we can not do this in our own power, for nothing we build or try to sustain in our own power will ever last. I look back to these "old paths" and I see men and women holding prayer meetings 5 days a week at church. I see them together, in one accord, praying down heaven upon earth. Now, we meet in a bulding once a week for "church" and maybe have a couple social getherings during the week and expect the power of God to move mightily. God so longs to relash His glorious power upon His people; but He wont until we seek His face. And of course there are those by His grace that are certaintly running full steem after God, and growing in godliness and holiness everyday. You know, one thing i am very certain about; although God may call one of us to Pastor, one to go ona mission trip, one to sing in a chior; in whatever specific area or arena you are called, be certain that each and everyone of us is called to holiness.

Just some thoughts this afternoon
I pray this day, in which He has made, that each of us becomes more conformed unto His likeness and image. Help us O God, in Jesus name.

EJ.
I agree so much. No prayer meetings. None in my realm. I believe that many if not most churches have replaced these with small groups where the prayer is to take place. It does happen on that level but isn't enough

I would like to see our church start each day with a different elder leading prayer and some in the evenings too. With twelve elders and two pastors and others as they are led, this seems reasonable to me...

[Charles Miles]

Sorry for my misunderstanding about the Bible class.  I still think you would be a great teacher and leader in a Bible study however.  Hmmmm, maybe there is a solution to the situation after all.  Volunteer to lead the study when both of them can`t come.

 

Charlie

[E.J.]

2 Thessalonians 1:11

Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power.

 

 

The work of faith with power. Imagine living out your faith; a faith that had power! Not power like we know it; but an endless reservoir of divine power. Power to do the impossible, for with God nothing is impossible.

Can you say.....humility!

[chipped china]

Going back to EJ's comment about speaking up when others are sinning. I think I wobbled on that scripture because learning how to let God's love rebuke is difficult. Teaching someone that God's ways lead us to peace and joy instead of just condemning is difficult to do. We want to draw people to His love because it's a better way, not because they are less than we are. Unconditional love is agape love and only comes from Him. I think the church in the past has always clubbed people over the head and that makes it hard for us to have courage to confront someone. If His love is flowing through us it shouldn't be that hard. Then I wonder if they are truly a believer would they be doing those things. Perhaps the woman in Candice's bible study is not a true believer and that's why she wasn't drawn to talk to her. Most of the scriptures I find on rebuking are for believers. Matt 18: 25-17 is if a believer sins against you. 1 Tim: 5:20 is for those who persist in sin to openly rebuke them in the presence of all, so they may stand in fear. And 2 Tim 3:16-17 says, All scripture is breathed out by God and is profitable for teaching, reproof, for correction, and for teaching in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

 

The reason I bring this up again is for our learning. I don't want to part of the lukewarm apathetic church. We can't just sit by and not be obedient. Neither can we teach and correct if we are not equipped, competent, and show God's unconditional love through us.

 

I found all kinds of good scripture pertaining to this subject in www.openbibleinfo/topics/rebuking 

 

Although most of these scriptures deal with believers, they also give insight to calling unbelievers to the Lord.

 

I pray to be open for God to put these scriptures in my heart so if need be I'm equipped to let Him speak to others.

[Candice]

Charlie
No worries; I can barely keep all of this straight let alone explain it. I have not been asked for a while to lead and would need to know it was Gods will.

All,
Does not a fish rot from the head down? Or, is this just my excuse?? I see such error in pastors' teaching and such lack of discernment at this church in particular that I think it is out of my hands.

I think studying the word with the little old ladies on Fridays May be it. They are cessationist but not lacking discernment. I guess they don't know that discernment is a gift of The Spirit!! LOL!!