21 replies to this topic

[Kenny]

I was in a contemplative mood this evening and a few quotes particularly seemed to touch me concerning the thoughts that were swimming around in my head and heart. Tonight I feel so alone, out of place and at odds with the world. Yet I'm not surprised.

 

1. I feel like i'm diagonally parked  in a parallel universe

 

2. Dead fish don't swim upstream

 

3. Always drink upstream from the herd.

 

4. The masses are always wrong. In every generation the number of the righteous is small. Be sure you are among them. - A.W. Tozer

 

5. "In our constant struggle to believe we are likely to overlook the simple fact that a bit of healthy disbelief is sometimes as needful as faith to the welfare of our souls.  I would go further and say that we would do well to cultivate a reverent skepticism. It will keep us out of a thousand bogs and quagmires where others who lack it sometimes find themselves. It is no sin to doubt some things, but it may be fatal to believe everything." - Tozer, The Root of the Righteous

 

6. "Modern civilization is so complex as to make the devotional life all but impossible. It wears us out by multiplying distractions and beats us down by destroying our solitude, where otherwise we might drink and renew our strength before going out to face the world again.' Tozer, Of God and men

 

7. In order to hear God's voice, turn down the world's volume

 

8.  "Count not of great importance who is for you, or against you. (Rom. 8:31; 1 Cor. 4:3), but let this be your aim and care, that God be with you in everything you do." Thomas a Kempis, Imitation of Christ

 

9. Eschew Obfuscation

 

10. God sometimes takes us into the dark room to develop us

 

11. If only a man would never seek passing joys or entangle himself with worldly affairs, what a good conscience he would have. What great peace and tranquillity would be his, if he cut himself off from all empty care and thought only of things divine, things helpful to his soul, and put all his trust in God. - Thomas a Kempis, The Imitation of Christ

[Kevin Blankenship]

Number 11 really applies to me. I mean REALLY.  Oh, my hobbies/pasttimes are healthy in and of themselves. But I find myself giving much more attention to them than I do to meditating on the Love of Jesus and His Word. I am my own worst enemy.  I am SO glad that there is this forum to share this on. I have tried confessing it to fellow churchmen, only to be chastised and told that "God gave us all things to enjoy."  But they weren't getting what I was saying. But A.W. Tozer got what I was saying......when he wrote the second (I think) chapter to The Pursuit of God. The chapter is entitled: "The Blessedness Of Possessing Nothing".

   I simply am not satisfied with a hobby....say....as an amateur historian/ metal detectorist. No.....I have to study it all day and into the night.  I am cheating God out of my TIME.  I am generous with my money and my things......but I am among the stingiest of men with my TIME.  I still see my spare time as MINE....ALL MINE.   It leaves a very empty ....very vacant spot in the heart.  I'll be metal detecting and just throw it down in disgust!!!! "This is supposed to be fun!!!!!" I'll say to myself. But I am so miserable. And sadly, I know the reason for my misery.  But I am stiff-necked and stubborn......just like the first generation Israelites who were liberated from their slavery. I'm no different from them.  

  Kenny, I apologize for not adding a positive message for you. I could have thought up and written out some of the old cliche's that we hear......but it would be a lie coming from my mouth.  I am in awful bondage to self.

[Ysa]

3. Always drink downstream from the herd.

 

 

 

Why?

Why not upstream?

[Candice]

Kenny,

I love this post!! Mostly, I am sad to hear you are feeling alone. We are here for you. What's up that brought it on or do you know??

Praying for your encouragement. Yet, you are on the right side of the word to be an alien here. Of course, you know that scriptural my to be true but need to know you are not alone. We can know what The Lord says we are positionally in being aliens here but really feel it sometimes due to our human nature. I wish I were of greater faith and better about putting on the armor of God since that is what is needed

First, I wonder, just as Ysa asks: why not upstream??

I will take 1. First off as a great way to put into words how I feel most days, among family and even the church. Again, we are aliens. Among intimates, feeling alone is painful. But, as you state, God can put us in the dark thatroom to develop us. Not expecting anything from anyone is probably part of growth - but, ouch when that non- bearing branch is cut. I am far from Christ-likeness. Sometimes I think it takes a change to know that.

More tomorrow. Lots of good stuff you posted to ponder.

Be blessed as an alien!!

Candice

[chipped china]

Feeling alone makes us cling to God, makes us seek Him, and we find refuge! It's a way to break us of desiring the world. We discover that His love and fellowship is the biggest prize of all. We get glimpses of Jesus in others and even see Him working in us sometimes. They are our most cherished moments and those help us to have patience to wait for when He returns or heaven. We were made by Him and for Him. It is not our life anymore but His.

 

I believe the Lord wants us to commune with Him day and night. I think He wants us to enjoy the earth, our work and play. What He demands is that we have no other before Him. When He is first we can enjoy our other activities but nothing is as sweet as loving and growing in God. One person may have a love for old treasures and their history, another the beauty and grace of horses. I can barely say this but it includes spouses, children, and family. God Almighty comes before all. And we use the Word of God to know how to navigate. You know when your other loves are in their proper place when they don't bring the complete absorption or authority they use to. When you start looking to Him either in praise or wise counsel, or when you respond to His call, whatever that may be. And you do it in love and obedience. Giving may hurt a little but I tend to believe if it doesn't it's not giving. Giving is when you think you don't have enough but you give anyway because you trust God to take care of you.

 

These are just some thoughts I wanted to share because I want all my brothers and sisters to be at peace. Maybe it will help and maybe not but I pray it for all of us. There is a time for sadness and condemnation but then it just stands in the way of His love (agape) working through us.

[Kenny]

Why?

Why not upstream?

 

Ysa

 

Thank you for pointing my typo out to me. I meant to post upstream, therefore I am going to edit that

 

Thanks again

[Kenny]

Thank you all for the encouraging words. It should come as no surprise to Christian's when the world dislikes us. Jesus in John 15 said that would be the case. Yet it's a sad pill to swallow when our devotion to Christ and our love for Him makes those closest to us dislike certain aspects of our devotion to Him. But on the positive side this year has been a year in which I helped lead my sister to Christ, and she in return led her son to the Lord. Therefore I should be focusing on the positive rather than the negative and praise God for what I see Him accomplishing for His own glory. Thank you Jesus

[chipped china]

I was listening to a seminar about the coming storm; internationally, nationally, and in own lives. Ron Matsen was talking about how we should have "promise" scripture verses ready for all occasions and replace our fears and doubts with them. I'm sure many of you already do this but it's something I need to improve.

 

 

Deut. 31:6 Be strong and of good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them, for the Lord thy God, he is it that doth go with thee: He will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

 

Pro 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding. In all ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your path.

 

Psalm 1:1-3 Blessed is the man who walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of the scornful. 2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord, and His law he doth mediate day and night. 3 And he shall be like a tree planted like the rivers of waters, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf should also not wither, and whatsoever he doeth he shall prosper.

 

Phil. 4:11-13 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state that I am, therewith to be content. 12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and suffer need. 13 I can do all things through Christ who strenghtenth me.

 

This last verse is really the key to peace because it's not talking about getting what you want but sitting back and waiting for the Lord to pass things your way so you can overcome and accept whatever comes. Mr. Matsen went on to say that for many of us American's we may to headed for poverty in the years ahead. How do we feel about that?  The government has structured us into an entitlement system. Monarchy slowly takes away our freedom by making us dependent on them. How many of us are prepared to live off the land? The bigger question is if our economy fails and I don't see how it can recover with the amount of debt we are in, will we find peace in whatever state we are in.

Obama has clearly turned his support to the Arabs. We are losing God's protection by turning our backs on Israel. Apathy is so high the righteous are not being heard. Christianity is the only religion it's ok to discriminate against and hate. And I feel we are sitting back letting it happen. Wow, I really got off topic. Sorry, here I am saying to trust God in whatever then I let all my fears come out. Honestly, I want to be at peace but I also want to fight what's happening.

[Candice]

I was listening to a seminar about the coming storm; internationally, nationally, and in own lives. Ron Matsen was talking about how we should have "promise" scripture verses ready for all occasions and replace our fears and doubts with them. I'm sure many of you already do this but it's something I need to improve.


Deut. 31:6 Be strong and of good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them, for the Lord thy God, he is it that doth go with thee: He will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

Pro 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding. In all ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your path.

Psalm 1:1-3 Blessed is the man who walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of the scornful. 2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord, and His law he doth mediate day and night. 3 And he shall be like a tree planted like the rivers of waters, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf should also not wither, and whatsoever he doeth he shall prosper.

Phil. 4:11-13 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state that I am, therewith to be content. 12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and suffer need. 13 I can do all things through Christ who strenghtenth me.

This last verse is really the key to peace because it's not talking about getting what you want but sitting back and waiting for the Lord to pass things your way so you can overcome and accept whatever comes. Mr. Matsen went on to say that for many of us American's we may to headed for poverty in the years ahead. How do we feel about that? The government has structured us into an entitlement system. Monarchy slowly takes away our freedom by making us dependent on them. How many of us are prepared to live off the land? The bigger question is if our economy fails and I don't see how it can recover with the amount of debt we are in, will we find peace in whatever state we are in.
Obama has clearly turned his support to the Arabs. We are losing God's protection by turning our backs on Israel. Apathy is so high the righteous are not being heard. Christianity is the only religion it's ok to discriminate against and hate. And I feel we are sitting back letting it happen. Wow, I really got off topic. Sorry, here I am saying to trust God in whatever then I let all my fears come out. Honestly, I want to be at peace but I also want to fight what's happening.

[Candice]

Hi Betsy ,
Ron Matsen is so right about our knowing scripture. I'm terrible at memorizing, but did have psalm 1 memorized as well as The Sermon on the Mount at one time and just started recently to rememorize Psalm 1 again. It is wise. We've had free access to the word for so very long while others have maybe one page at a time to share with several, i.e. Burma.

Today, we were blessed to know and see with our own eyes, hear with our ears and be convinced in our hearts that, even in San Francisco, all that it is in evil, holds hope because young people like Pastor Josh at CalvarySF church know the truth, preach the word in humility of spirit and disciple others faithfully. Maybe 50 people in all that city but serving homeless, all kinds if fellowship in love and truth; prayer meetings, etc. Seeing that genuineness lifted my spirits this morning. There was hope in church that I haven't seen in my own church ever. In the middle of the mess!!!

Obama is one authority of many whom we must honor as instructed in 3 peter (?). We must pray for our leaders. Yet, I agree, we must consider that the US is under judgment for siding with Arabs and He will curse those who curse Israel and bless those who bless her. It is a heart-sinking reality to see what is happening.

In Chicago, there are white former missionaries to Rwanda who are bringing Rwandans and others from Africa to evangelize America. Friends of mine are doing this. We need to pray for them and ask for God to bring more like them! No joke!! There's still hope and I saw it uncompromisingly this morning. I wouldn't like to live in SF again as I told our son. But I would if I could be part of this church!!

[Candice]

Also Betsy, in Wyoming, we have deer, elk, moose, trout, grouse, turkey's and all manner of animals for potential food. BUT.... It is a fact that Game and Fish are armed with hollow point shot and, in a national crisis, will not allow us up the mountain for survival. We'd be taken out. Wyoming will be shut down and anyone trying to sneak in ??? Sadly, the plan is turn them away or they will be killed. And, without a large revolt by top generals of all military branches, our guys in uniform will follow orders - whatever they may be. But, I know where I'm going. You too !!!

Do not fear what man can do to your body but fear God (in the good way)

Love you sister!!

[chipped china]

I'm so glad you got to find some believers in SF. He always gives us mercy and blessings. He knows you adore Him. Amazing how African's are coming here to preach to Americans. Isn't that the way it is though.  Hardship brings you to your knees and puts your trust in God and then slowly things get better and we drift from Him. Same old story different century. Although I wonder if true believers anointed with the Spirit ever drift very drift far. Interesting subject.

 

How do you know that info about the Game and Fish department? I wonder if it's the same in other states.

 

love you too, you're in my prayers, bets

[Kenny]

I decided to add a few more thoughts which fit in with the OP

 

If you live in such a manner as to stand the test of the last judgment, you can depend upon it that the world will not speak well of you.

 

The Christian will be sure to make enemies. It will be one of his objects to make none; but if doing what is right and believing what is true should cause him to lose every earthly friend, he will regard it as a small loss, since his great Friend in heaven will be even more friendly and will reveal Himself to him more graciously than ever.

 

Withhold no part of the precious truth, but speak what you know and declare what you have seen. Do not allow the toil or darkness or possible unbelief of your friends to dissuade you. Let us rise and march to the place of duty, and there declare what great things God has shown to our soul.

 

* quotes are from Alistair Begg

[Candice]

Thanks Kenny for getting this on track again. I love to listen to Alistair Begg several times a week on kwave radio.

Yesterday, The Lord gave me time alone with my husbands mother and He clearly led me to outright share the Gospel (not the first time) with her - simply in truth and love. She said she believed and had since childhood, and I told her that all her good deeds would not get her into Gods kingdom here or after this life. She said she knows this but kept going back to her church heritage to assure me. So, I do to know her eternal status, but I obeyed The Lord whether she would have it or not. She knows and has known my beliefs.

So I stand unafraid of man or needing friends. This past week left me surrendered albeit a few off-track moments where He alone corrected my coarse. I live and die alone with Christ alone - Great. I have let go of my own son's life and my desparate and anxiety-led hopes of his salvation, surrendering to God what is His alone to give. Even my own husband's needs are God's to meet. All surrendered to my Father who will likely be my only fellowship - save for this wonderful small group on this forum. But, He is true.

Going home today knowing in my heart that I've been obedient to Christ as He has called at least in some areas. The rest will unfold.

I must take the theological and written word to where the rubber meets the road, sharing with others as Paul and others did or mine is only religion. There must be a testimony.

Blessings,
Candice

[Kenny]

Thanks Kenny for getting this on track again. I love to listen to Alistair Begg several times a week on kwave radio.

Yesterday, The Lord gave me time alone with my husbands mother and He clearly led me to outright share the Gospel (not the first time) with her - simply in truth and love. She said she believed and had since childhood, and I told her that all her good deeds would not get her into Gods kingdom here or after this life. She said she knows this but kept going back to her church heritage to assure me. So, I do to know her eternal status, but I obeyed The Lord whether she would have it or not. She knows and has known my beliefs.

So I stand unafraid of man or needing friends. This past week left me surrendered albeit a few off-track moments where He alone corrected my coarse. I live and die alone with Christ alone - Great. I have let go of my own son's life and my desparate and anxiety-led hopes of his salvation, surrendering to God what is His alone to give. Even my own husband's needs are God's to meet. All surrendered to my Father who will likely be my only fellowship - save for this wonderful small group on this forum. But, He is true.

Going home today knowing in my heart that I've been obedient to Christ as He has called at least in some areas. The rest will unfold.

I must take the theological and written word to where the rubber meets the road, sharing with others as Paul and others did or mine is only religion. There must be a testimony.

Blessings,
Candice

 

Candice

 

Just before reading your post, I was engrossed into reading, and came across the following . . .

 

The symbol of the New Testament and the Christian Church is
a cross, which stands for a love faithful despite physical
agony and rejection by the world. No amount of air-
conditioning and pew-cushioning in the suburban church can
cover over the hard truth that the Christian life... is a
narrow way of suffering; that discipleship is costly: that, for
the faithful, there is always a cross to be carried. No one
can understand Christianity to its depths who comes to it to
enjoy it as a pleasant weekend diversion.
... W. Waldo Beach (1916-2001), The Christian Life  [l966]

 

And this next one is even better and should be a constant reminder for every believer

 

“Often we don’t share our faith in Christ with others because we fear we will offend them and they will dislike us. The fact of the matter is that half of the people in the world aren’t going to like you anyway, so they might as well not like you for the right reasons. If one hundred people dislike you, but one person becomes a Christian, wouldn’t that be worth the effort?” Patrick Morley - Man In The Mirror

[Candice]

Kenny
Absolutely worth not being liked because it's fleeting anyway and this our purpose. Just thinking: if someone does not like you to begin with (for whatever reason - or lack thereof), will they listen? Only God knows if , T some point, that person will recall the Gospel explained to them and take it in and believe. Some people only look for immediate "acceptance ", and if that isn't the result....?

[E.J.]

Amen, absolutely. I often struggle with this fear for numerous different reasons and even last night. I was new to a particular Bible study and it turned into a self help/ life coach session and I wanted to speak up and remind us all that we in of ourselves have nothing good in us that can help us. It is all the supernatural work of God in the Holy Spirit. But the fear of the people thinking I was just some young kid trying to look 'all holy' kept me from saying anything.

 

 

As a result of this fear, I do not share the love of Christ with enough people and it due to it, I HAVE made the decision not to follow the leading of the Spirit; which is exremely sad. We are often reminded not to grieve the Holy Spirit and we have a tendency to think that this grieving results from the 'gross' sins. But friends, we grieve Him when we don't take His hand and follow His lead.

 

 

But may we live in accordance with the revelation with how much He loves us; unconditionally, unwavering. For where the love of God is fully manifest, fear has to flee. His perfect love casts out fear!

 

In Christ,

E.J.

[Candice]

In response to Kenny's original post....

5. "In our constant struggle to believe we are likely to overlook the simple fact that a bit of healthy disbelief is sometimes as needful as faith to the welfare of our souls. I would go further and say that we would do well to cultivate a reverent skepticism. It will keep us out of a thousand bogs and quagmires where others who lack it sometimes find themselves. It is no sin to doubt some things, but it may be fatal to believe everything." - Tozer, The Root of the Righteous

I'm not sure I agree or I need to sleep on this one. It was on my mind all the way home on the plane from Cali today, as I read a book by Spurgeon, "Finding Peace in Life's Storms" where he absolutely refutes this. However, Spurgeon was writing more on disputing unbelief than doubt. Something for prayerful consideration as I'm usually right-on with Tozer. Maybe I need further context.

Candice

[Ysa]

In response to Kenny's original post....

5. "In our constant struggle to believe we are likely to overlook the simple fact that a bit of healthy disbelief ...

I'm not sure I agree ...

 

I hope you notice the irony here: You actually demonstrated a bit of healthy disbelief in what Tozer had said. And it is good to question, because it means we think, we use our head.

 

Of course, we don't have the full context of what Tozer said here, but I don't think his point was to question God. It was more to question (= think if it is right or wrong) what people say.

 

Questioning also helps us fight the fact that sometimes we say "I believe." or "I believe this and this" without, in fact, understanding what we believe. I don't think the Father wants 'blind faith' from us, he wants us to understand his mind as much as it is possible.

For example the Pharisees 'believed' in the importance of keeping the Sabbath, believed in the Sabbath, so to say, without understanding the Heavenly Father's point. Sadly, they weren't able to recognise when the real Sabbath, the Lord of Sabbath was standing before their very eyes. 

[Kenny]

In response to Kenny's original post....

5. "In our constant struggle to believe we are likely to overlook the simple fact that a bit of healthy disbelief is sometimes as needful as faith to the welfare of our souls. I would go further and say that we would do well to cultivate a reverent skepticism. It will keep us out of a thousand bogs and quagmires where others who lack it sometimes find themselves. It is no sin to doubt some things, but it may be fatal to believe everything." - Tozer, The Root of the Righteous

I'm not sure I agree or I need to sleep on this one. It was on my mind all the way home on the plane from Cali today, as I read a book by Spurgeon, "Finding Peace in Life's Storms" where he absolutely refutes this. However, Spurgeon was writing more on disputing unbelief than doubt. Something for prayerful consideration as I'm usually right-on with Tozer. Maybe I need further context.

Candice

 

Hi Candice

 

 

I think my main focus of the quote from Tozer was the phrase; "it may be fatal to believe everything"

 

In these modern times, there are many false teachers which abound and are rapidly multiplying, and Scripture admonishes us to "test all things" and to "prove all things"

 

" there shall be false teachers" 2 Pet 2:1,

 

Notice, the above text doesn't say, might be, or may be, but rather that there will be

 

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1

 

And how about Paul's warning to the elders of Ephesus

 

Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. Wherefore watch ye, remembering that by the space of three years I ceased not to admonish every one night and day with tears. Acts 20:28-31

 

In the above text Paul told the Ephesian elders that from within their own ranks, men would arise speaking false things to draw away disciples to their false teaching. Notice, Paul didn't say, men from outside their ranks or group would be speaking perverse things but rather those from within their ranks.

 

That is also why the Bereans of Acts 17 searched the Scriptures daily to see whether or not the things they were hearing were true or false. 

 

There are many teachings out there today that don't line up with the word of God, therefore we need to be alert and discern truth from error.

 

If I was so inclined I could begin listing some of the many false teachings that exist today, but I will save that for another day.

 

your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour. ( 1 Pet 5:8). The devil isn't looking to devour non-believers because they are already under his power and grip. Rather he is seeking to devour those who believe

 

Therefore when Tozer said; "it may be fatal to believe everything" he is correct.

 

Allow me to close my post with the following quote from Tozer

 

"If your Christianity depends upon a pastor's preaching, then you're a long way from being where you should be." AW Tozer