11 replies to this topic

[Kevin Blankenship]

I have been reading about the Cannanites and the command that God gave to the Israelites to exterminate them, man, woman, child, beast, ......everything that breathes. In the New Testament, Jesus says:  "Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father's care. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows."  But what about the infants of the Canaanites? Or Hittites? Or Perezites? Where they worth more than many sparrows?  I must admit to not understanding this at all.  A gracious and loving God, full of compassion.   And infants being slaughtered. And mothers. And fathers.  I'm really having a terrible time with this. It will take a much more seasoned Christian than I to make this compute in my brain.  God, who never changes. 

[Candice]

Hi Kevin,

 

I too had wondered about this some time ago. Then, I happened along two explanations for the need for the Israelites to kill every single person in the land of Canaan. 

 

The only two lines of explanation that I know (there may be alternative views) are:

 

1.  The line of Ham (Genesis 9 events) - "...cursed be Canaan."  Gen. 9:20-26 - this led to sexual immorality in Canaan, as well as idolatry, etc. 

 

2. Nephilim line pre-flood and post-flood (Numbers 13) in Canaan.  Basically, demons had relations with women (Genesis-reason for the flood because Noah and his family were without blemish due to unaltered DNA.  Thus, well-documented scriptural references and other references to giants.

 

The first view is fairly straight forward and doesn't appear, to me anyway, to have any further explanation beyond the basic scriptural reference.

 

For the two views, I believe Chuck Missler has a great explanation on both; albeit controversial!  Very controversial to some people.  However, you can check this out by googling Chuck Missler and Nephilim. Khouse.org has an article, "Mischievious Angels or Sethites?",  but I am unable to cut, copy and paste on this forum for some reason.  

 

You can read both accounts and compare.  Also, some of documents to support this view come from Book of Enoch (which is mentioned in Jude and by Luke (I think that's it).  But, the bible has enough support to convince many.

 

I tend towards the Nephilim reasoning.  So, this would mean the most vile, evil thing had to be eliminated in all Canaan folks as all were infected DNA-wise.  There are mainstream pastors, etc. who believe this reasoning including Missler (or at least he seems to), Chuck Smith, (our church's youth pastor), et al. John MacArthur and others would probably go with the Ham bloodline of interpretation and explanation.

 

 It seems that way, waaaay back in early church history, the Nephilim interpretation was actually the one believed, but, as time when on, people were uncomfortable with it and took the other explanation as easier to digest since it is scary to think about.  But, to me, the Lord is the only one to fear. He alone knows for sure.

 

Many will say "hey, hey, hey now!  This is too much!"  But let us reason together for what we want to know and leave it with the Lord after that.

 

Warning:  I wouldn't get into the alien stuff that somehow climbs into this line of reasoning within the Nephilim realm.  Although, I do believe there's something going on - it is not "alien"; it is demonic.  I don't go there because I'm weak already and don't need to get into that stuff, although I've read my fair share and have just left that to God.  I do warn people who bring up aliens that this is demonic - caution, caution, caution.  Of course, alien movies, etc. are popular and have been for some time.  No doubt there are "UFOs", but anything alien is demonic -- plain and simple.

 

I'd say the LORD is LORD and He always wanted what was necessary to keep Israel pure for the Messiah to come. Whatever Satan can do to prevent the Messiah was without limit.  So, the LORD is perfectly just, omniscient and loving. He just knows and we don't.

 

Enjoy the journey brother!  Just use standard scripture interprets scripture and Berean discernment along the way.

 

Merry Christmas too.  And to your mom - peace in her mind and heart.  Thank you for serving the Lord by serving her.  You are in my prayers.

 

Candice

[chipped china]

Well said Candice. I tend to gravitate towards the Nephilim reasoning too, and that any alien activity is demonic. Satan tries everything he can to keep God from carrying out His plan. Polluting the human bloodline was another one of his schemes to keep the Messiah from coming. 

One thing I will add is that Chuck Missler leans toward aliens coming from an unknown dimension, not space. There are some pretty way out theories about all this but like Candice said that's for those who are interested and use God's discernment. One other thing I keep in mind is; if any government power introduces "aliens" to the world, know that they are Satanic. 

 

And Merry Christmas Kevin and Candice, you are welled loved by the people on this site.

[Kevin Blankenship]

Thanks. You know, when I was doing the Old Testament Survey on the Koinonia Institue, I recall there being and explanation such as this. I forgot about it last night when making  the orginal post (in exasperation) but now, having recalled it (thanks to y'all) it DOES seem to lend some reasoning to the complete genocide that was performed by Israel (at God's command).  In fact, the Nephilum theory is really the only one (for me, at present) that makes all of this work in my mind at this point.

   As I sit here writing this, I think to myself:  There are going to be times when we, as God's holy and dearly loved ones, and His ambassadors in this world, are going to be confronted by some well thought out arguments from the unsaved people to whom we are attempting to 'work with'.  And to be honest, I am not sure that I am entirely ready to have an unbeliever get up in my face (or even back three feet away) and say: "If God loves us humans, as much as you (I) say the He does, then how could he condone the killing of babies throught some of the Old Testament. Infants were killed in the Old Testament in the 'interest' of keeping the bloodline pure and yet, you (we) same Christians make such a loud noise when a female chooses to have an early term abortion when she has been raped. Please help me understand that."   (Now please be reminded that this is a POTENTIAL query from an unbelieving person.  The above question is not my question to y'all...but rather....a "what if" scenario.)  I would likely not be studied up enough to "be instant in season or out".  Looks like I need to get that way. I can already see what my personal Topical Bible study is going to be about today.  Thanks for the responses ladies.  They satisfy me. Because in the grand scheme of things......I totally believe in the inerrancy of the Word of God and it's total inspiration. It will stand under the hard scrutiny of the unbelieving masses....as it always has, and always will. (The Word of the Lord will stand forever).  Thanks for the Christmas well wishes.....and the very smae back to you sisters.!!!!

[Charles Miles]

Kevin,

  That era of history does seem harsh and doesn`t seem to conform to the idea of God`s mercy.  There is a scripture back there before God`s people were allowed to go into the promised land, where God told someone that it was not time to go in yet because the "sin of the people there had not reached fullness".  I`m not sure what that means, but I would assume it meant there was a time when even God turned His back on the people in Caanan.  The explanation with the nephalim seems to make the most sense to me, but I guess we just have to trust God in some matters like that.  As we look back, the extermination was NOT done completely so some of these people remained in and around the land.  Now in today`s current events, I do wonder what the situation would be like in the middle east if it had been done as God ordered?  Just an interesting speculation.

[chipped china]

I think the hardest thing to explain to the unbelieving world is the idea that we were made by Him and for Him. God can do whatever He wants and we have to trust it is for the best even though we may not understand. It's the pride of man thinking his way is better. Many times the reason people don't give themselves is Christ is because they don't want to be responsible for their own sinful behavior. They want to be gods themselves. As believers we all go through a time of seeing the filthiness that lives in us and it's hard to face and takes the love of God to get us through that stage.

God gives life, it's not for us to take away. We must be radically obedient, and have radical faith. The faithless can't imagine turning their life over to an unseen God. It's even hard for us. So accepting God's plan and knowing He only wants good for all people is key to coming to terms with the things Satan does often need repercussions so the bigger plan will succeed. That's how I look at it, flawed as it may be. Peace and love to all, bets 

[Ysa]

I think the historical fact of entering the Promised Land and claiming it is the shadow of the things to come. Personally, for me it means if I really want to enter the Peace and Rest the Father has prepared I am to eradicate all sin in my land (in me) through the gracious enabling of Christ Jesus. The fight is God's fight (and has already been won on Calvary), all is needed is my willing participation. When God says: "Slay!" I am to obey, without reasoning along the lines that these are just babies, little things, no big deal (still talking about sin and bad habits and such). Babes will grow, God knows that.

 

I know nothing about the historical situation of thousands of years ago. It does strike me as harsh, too. But then, the "historical situation" of today's world does not perhaps strike me as harsh, because I live in it, lacking the necessary perspective.

[chipped china]

So true Ysa, you nailed it. Eradicating sin in our land through the enabling of Christ in us. I yearn to keep that truth in my heart, soul, and mind.

 

And Charlie, the insinuation you made with extermination not being complete really made a bell ring true in my mind. I hadn't quite connected all the dots. I think it's very true that demons are still present in this age and people have encounters with them all the time but they speak of them as ghosts or spirits. About 20 years ago I had to fight one myself, or rather Jesus through me. It was terrifying but made me so much stronger. Perhaps there is still danger by things that could happen in this life but my fear is gone because I'm sealed in the mighty blood of Jesus. Satan is the liar and cannot compare to the power of our Savior. I don't like talking about this stuff but sometimes you have to because the evil one is still trying to sabotage our walk and we need to be aware and rebuke him out loud though Christ. Negative thoughts and sin need to be banished from us though confession and immediately replaced with God's love. Love His ways and laws more than our earthly desires.

 

Thank you everyone for this discussion. God bless and keep you hidden under His wings. Bets

[Thinker]

Kevin, Let me weigh in on this one. First, we can scarcely realize just how corrupt and evil these people were or how many opportunities they had to repent. Their children might have gone to greater depths of sin. Secondly, they would have been a real snare to God's people. (Later history of His people demonstrates that). These things are a warning to all people. Third, God would have loved to have them repent. They were more valuable than the sparrows. However, He knew that they wouldn't repent. Fourth, Our ability to understand is limited until we know as we are known. (See I Corinthians 13:12). Finally, there are things throughout the Bible that, on the surface, don't seem right or seem to make sense. This is where faith comes into play. There is a principle for us in Genesis 18:25. Abraham asks, "Shall not the judge of all the earth do right?" Faith acknowledges that God will only do right and we can trust Him Who loved us enough to die for us. Likely, in the words of the hymn: "We'll understand it better by and by." If we do, or even if we don't, He will do and be only what's right. We can trust Him!  Thinker    (Ron)

[Kenny]

Without going deep into this, we can rest assured that God will always do what's right. I'm satisfied knowing that. I do however find myself in agreement with what Thinker posted in post #9 to this thread

[Julie Daube]

I think Candice came very close to the mark in her response to Kevin's questions. A mature Christian I know believes that those whom God commanded the Israelites to exterminate were possessed by demons to the point that not one creature among them (man, child, or beast) was not utterly corrupted by the demonic. The only way to rid the land of the influence of demons was to destroy all of those whom the demons had possessed. I don't think we can possibly imagine how evil these people were; they were completely given over to Satan and were actively serving him. Also, just because someone is a mother or a father does not mean they are immune from committing horrific evil. I have known mothers and fathers who were rotten to the core and who taught their children to be criminals. And let's look at the evil that children are capable of. We've all heard news reports of kids bullying their classmates to the point of driving them to suicide. And then there are kids who murder other kids. These are the types of people we are talking about here.  

 

As far as infants being slaughtered, it is my belief that infants are innocent; therefore, those who were slaughtered by the Israelites would have gone to heaven and thus were spared a far worse fate than their parents, who went to hell.         

 

In this light, I like what Thinker had to say:

 

"Kevin, Let me weigh in on this one. First, we can scarcely realize just how corrupt and evil these people were or how many opportunities they had to repent. Their children might have gone to greater depths of sin. Secondly, they would have been a real snare to God's people. (Later history of His people demonstrates that). These things are a warning to all people. Third, God would have loved to have them repent. They were more valuable than the sparrows. However, He knew that they wouldn't repent. Fourth, Our ability to understand is limited until we know as we are known. (See I Corinthians 13:12). Finally, there are things throughout the Bible that, on the surface, don't seem right or seem to make sense. This is where faith comes into play."     

 

Ultimately, this all boils down to faith . . . faith in God's character, goodness and justice. Faith that He knows best, and that His ways are above our ways. We have to trust Him, even when His ways don't make sense to our finite, limited minds.

[Kevin Blankenship]

Thanks for the feedback.