22 replies to this topic

[Candice]

I just have to ask . . . . I cannot resist this need to ask question that I have wondered about for some time, and don't have an explanation for nor has the Lord really given me any impressions on this. I don't mean to offend here on The Forum who God has given the gift of tongues.

Why does it seem that (within my knowledge and those I know personally or know of) the only people who seem to have the gift of tongues are Assemblies of God or Pentacostal or one of the denominations along those lines??? To me it is odd - and I mean this with respect, honestly - that I've never met a Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, et al, who have the gift nor have I heard of it.

If the Lord chooses the gift each believer is to receive, then why doesn't he give that gift to others outside of these groups?? Any explanations? Maybe some of you are aware of something to the contrary?

[Kevin Blankenship]

Yes, I have an explanation: In the Statement of Belief of the Assemblies of God (of which I used to be a very STAUNCH believer...even combative (verbally) and especially about this very topic), but in their Statement of Belief, it reads: "WE BELIEVE...the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a Special Experience Following Salvation that empowers believers for witnessing and effective service, just as it did in New Testament times. [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the AG]" And the following:
"WE BELIEVE... The Initial Physical Evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is ‘Speaking in Tongues,’ as experienced on the Day of Pentecost and referenced throughout Acts and the Epistles."
They, along with the Church of God (Cleveland Tennessee), and many other entities that call themselves Full Gospel churches, (implying that THEY teach the FULL Gospel, while the rest teach only part of it).
I will readily admit, I have seen some flaky stuff. On the other hand, I have seen some stuff that would give me pause....namely: I visiting evangelist put his hand on my forehead, and the next moment I came to on the ground.
But when I first joined, the pastor declared and alter call, and that the Spirit was present is people wanted to be undued with Power from on High. (I am not being sarcastic). I raised my hand, and went forward. Some of the little old ladies of the church, and a couple of the more Spirtual men came up and stood behind me. Not being used to this (I was raised, as a kid, in the Cumberland Presbyterian Church, which has become VERY liberal......VERY VERY liberal) I looked behind me, curious about what they were going to do. I have this terrible dislike of being 'goosed' in the ribs and anyone who walks behind me, I keep an eye on them. Plus, some time spent in prison had reinforced this safety measure. But I tried to stay focused as they prayed for me because I sincerely wanted what I truly believe that the Bible teaches concerning this (but I do NOT hold to this same emphasis on Tongues....AT ALL). So I did everything the Pastor told me to. He said: "Lift those hands up in the air and start praising God". I had NEVER done this publicly before, and this in itself was a major obstacle. Bluntly....I felt VERY self-conscience. I had never audibly started praising and thanking God in a public assembly to where people could actually here me. And then, the pastor sort of backed away and let the little women take it from there. They kicked up the intensity of the whole affair about three notches. One was oven patting me under my chin saying: " Just "say:" the first thing that comes to your mind!! It doesn;'t matter what it is!" This went on and on and on and on. I started putting 2 and 2 togther, realizing that I was being a "he's a tough one".....so I finally just moved my lips. I said nothing. Simply moved my lips. Something like bah bah bah bah, only without sound. Immediately, one of the very observant little ladies noticed that and declared: "He's got it it!!!!!!" and began praising God loudly, and jerking around a bit (sort of like a single spasm, as if someone had stuck a sewing needle in their hind end and they were automatically reacting to the painful prick). Anyway...alter time had been a success. One had been "Baptized in the Spirit" that day. On the other hand, I walked away completely confused. I didn';t ever remember any instances in the book of Acts where people had been filled in this manner. One of the men, a doctor, came up to me, noticing my bewildered look, and asked: "You are wondering what just happened aren't you?" I just shook my head in the affirmative, still dazed. He said: "Just remember, Jesus said, that if you ask the Father for the Holy Ghost, he won't give you a rock, or a snake or something else instead.....that it is by faith.'
Anyway, from that point on, I started listening to people speaking in tongues and started practicing and got pretty good. But there is another time, in my bedroom, years later, where I woke up speaking in another language, and I was being prompted by God Himself. Not little ladies (with good intentions) patting me inder the chin trying to get me to stammer. (with stammering lips, He will speak to His people)

[radar]

Everything you ever want to know about speaking in tongues here:

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Glossolalia

[Candice]

Hi Kevin and Radar.
Thank you for your input. I understand all the controversies, i.e. the cessationist side and the Pentacost side of the question. I just don't see how God would supernaturally give tongues to only either all people in a certain congregation, such as Assemblies of God and then no one has the gift of tongues in some of the other denominations.

I guess the question will not be resolved this side of heaven.

Kevin,
I see a couple of red flags (for me and not about you personally), that you say you were confused and dazed and that the pastor stepped aside and let the ladies take over and the intensity increased.

I think of three responses that are in my heart. First, God is not the author of confusion - but who is? Second, the pastor let ladies take the lead which is unscriptural as women ought to remain silent in the congregation and are not to lead over men. Third, the doctor's response was a good one to your obviously confused state.

I'm really not a cessationist, but do believe that tongues must edify the body and be used in a specific ministerial manner. I've known people who've wanted to speak in tongues in a foreign mission field who did not know the native tongue and some did and some did not receive the gift. Anyway, the gift shouldn't be the focus. I don't want to get controversial. I guess, I need prayer, because my friend is very firm in saying that the Holy Spirit comes upon some and those receive the sign of tongues. Even she, when she told me she received the gift when she was alone, "I was confused...." and this clued me in to my suspicions. I'm just suspicious. Seems like a few experiences I've had every single time someone has asked me "what is your spiritual gift", I say "why do you ask?" because I know, after experience with people asking that, that they will say when I ask "what is YOUR spiritual gift?", without fail, they reply "speaking in tongues". Every single one of them has the same leanings. I'm not judging that. It's up to God to give whatever gifts He chooses and to whom He chooses. But, does it take falling over backwards and being dazed and CONFUSED? Hmm...

Thank you for your time on this. Any other thoughts are welcome!

Love, Candice

[Charles Miles]

I have a question about all this. My question is sincere and not a prod or to start any dissention, just a question that came to mind after study and refection on this subject. As I understand these "gifts" of the Spirit, they are given freely and are all essentially equal in importance except maybe prophesy. Yet many people place such huge importance upon speaking in tongues.....but not upon healing and the other gifts that are promised. When anyone says that they think speaking in tongues is needed to show that one has the Holy Spirit, I want to ask if they believe one needs to raise people from the dead also to show presence of the Spirit. How about healing disease also? I just think, and this may be just me, that speaking in tongues is easy to mimic(as Kevin just showed), so these sounds and words are spoken, not understood, and are very confusing. Raising someone from the dead is also a gift of the Spirit and we should maybe see an equal amount of that....but we don`t. Again, this is certainly not to start any arguments, just an observation and honest questions on the subject. Paul even said that speaking in tongues shout not be done unless there is someone present to interpret, and I have never seen anyone stand and explain what was just said by someone through this gift. This is not to say, in any way, that this is not a gift of the spirit, but maybe to say that it is often used incorrectly according to the scripture.

In Christ`s love,

Charlie

[Kevin Blankenship]

I was intrigued by A.W. Tozer's opinion about this. I cannot quote him verbatim, but it is in the book "How to be filled with the Holy Spirit" I am pretty sure. But he discusses that some congregations (or movement, as he calls it) have a very unbalanced focus on the gift of Tongues. And he discusses this at some length. I concur with Tozer's take. Do I just blindly accept Tozer's opinion about every topic.....No. I don't. He wouldn't want me to. At least I feel that he wouldn't want me to. He would likely say: "Kevin....wear those knees out with a Bible spead out before you, and prayerfully read through the entirety of Scripture so as to have God's mind on all issues." Yes, I HIGHLY respect Tozer. If he turned out to be a fraud.....then I'm one too. That's how much I respect Aiden Tozer!!!!
Tozer goes on to mention other great men of God who had extraordinary Spiritual experiences: Charles Finney (a Presbyterian), D.L Moody, A.B. Simpson, and several more.
But Candice asks a very valid question and it deserves a very valid answer. I, too, have not become a cessationist, even though I have "seen it all" in the AoG church that I was a member (in good standing, a deacon, keyboardists, head of the Jail Ministry). I have seen much flesh. Goosebumps (that were attributed to the presence of God entering the sanctucary), slayings in the Spirit. There was one lady that went up EVERY SERVICE and as soon as the pastor touched her forehead with anointing oil (the scented kind).....down she went. Predictably. But I left that denomination due to the fact that they embraced the prosperity gospel. ( I was in good company....as David Wilkerson left for the same reason and many more).
Having said all of that, I feel that there are many good Christian people in that denomination. I fully realize that Candice didn't start this thread as a AoG- bashing thread. I sort of started that. But only the disagreeable (to me) parts. I still fully believe in a second work of grace on a believer. But I DO NOT HOLD to the belief that "The initial evidence of being baptized in/with/by the Holy Spirit is Speaking in Tongues". It just will not hold water, if one really gets down and digs deep and in a prayerful way.
But I didn't always SAY that. When I was fully involved in that denomination, I vehemently declared the same thing when I was talking with someone about it. But deep down......I had my doubts. But since doubt....and the Faith Movement....cannot, or should not, co-exists...I would write off my deep down doubts as lack of biblical training on my part. But when I actually started reading my Bible. And started really studying it (NOT to find out about the Gifts....but to know God)...then it dawned on me that I shouldn't just believe every doctrine that comes down the pike.....even if some people I know and respect believe them. The Bible is the Final Authority. Of course, as y'all already know.
Disclaimer: It has NOT been my intention to hurt, or injure in any way, the Assembly of God member(s) who frequent this forum. I love you, and fully believe that you love the Lord, as much or likely more than I do. I simply do not see eye to eye on some of the doctrinal distinctives. That's all.

[Candice]

The CM Alliance is about the same as Calvary Chapel distinctives on tongues, but their summary on Spiritual Gifts is lengthier and appears more elaborate. Calvary Chapel notices:

Spiritual gifts

Although Calvary Chapel believes in the continuing efficacy of the gift of tongues, it does not recognize uninterpreted tongues spoken in a congregational setting as necessarily inspired (or at least directed) by the Holy Spirit because of its understanding of 1 Corinthians 14. Calvary Chapel accepts that the Bible affirms interpreted tongues and modern prophecy. Practicing tongues in private occurs more commonly.^[28] Calvary Chapel does not teach that the outward manifestation of every Christian counts as speaking in tongues. Instead, the movement's theologians regard speaking in tongues as one of the many gifts of the Spirit and see believers as blessed as the Spirit moves.^{[citation needed]}
Similar to other Pentecostal or Charismatic movements,^[29] Calvary Chapel holds that the baptism of the Holy Spirit does not take place during conversion, but is available as a second experience.^[30] It is their understanding that there are three distinct relationships with the Holy Spirit. The first is that which is experienced prior to conversion. In this relationship the Holy Spirit is convicting the person of his sin.^[31] In the second relationship the Holy Spirit indwells believers during conversion for the purpose of sanctification.^[32] The third relationship is the baptism of the Holy Spirit which Calvary Chapel believes is for the purpose of being a Christian witness.

[Charles Miles]

Candice does have a good question and an even better observation about tongues being seen in certain denominations and very, very rarely seen in others. As I pondered on that for a while last night during my study time I discovered something. I have never spoken in tongues in public or in a group...but....I certainly have done something very close to that in my private prayer time. Have any of you ever been so down, so broken, so deep in dispair, that when you went to pray you just didn`t know what to say or ask for? The walls have closed in, the roof has fallen on you, and the dark feelings of utter depression close in so bad that your mind simply won`t allow words to be formed, even those to speak to the Father. That is when I experience the groanings of the spirit and although I cannot make any sense out of my pleadings, the Lord seems to hear and respond to these deep pleadings and and requests that are actually unspoken......except for these sounds. Thank God I have traversed this valley now and things are vastly improved in my life. God certainly knows what we need before we even come to Him, so saying the exact words to request his intervention are not even required. The fact that we come in repentance as a child of his, who is in need of help, is all that is required. Praise our mightly God for being all that He is.

One who is grateful for God and His love,

Charlie

[Julie Daube]

I haven't read any of the replies to this forum but would just like to share that I have the gift of tongues, and I attend an Evangelical Free Church. I've also known Charistmatic Catholics who had this gift. But yes, it is generally rare to see the gift of tongues practiced by those outside of Charismatic/Pentecostal churches.

[Candice]

I haven't read any of the replies to this forum but would just like to share that I have the gift of tongues, and I attend an Evangelical Free Church. I've also known Charistmatic Catholics who had this gift. But yes, it is generally rare to see the gift of tongues practiced by those outside of Charismatic/Pentecostal churches.

Yup,
Julie, I just remembered that my friend who is fully Calvary Chapel (her husband was a CC pastor) has the gift of tongues. She told me she only speaks when she is agonizing over something and cannot speak. Kind of what Charlie posted above. Like a prayer language that is a rare event for her. She does not publicly speak and her husband has never witnessed this. I will ask her more when I see her on Wednesday in Fort Collins. She doesn't talk about it at all. It was a one-time conversation we had a few years ago.

[Candice]

I have never spoken in tongues in public or in a group...but....I certainly have done something very close to that in my private prayer time. Have any of you ever been so down, so broken, so deep in dispair, that when you went to pray you just didn`t know what to say or ask for? The walls have closed in, the roof has fallen on you, and the dark feelings of utter depression close in so bad that your mind simply won`t allow words to be formed, even those to speak to the Father. That is when I experience the groanings of the spirit and although I cannot make any sense out of my pleadings, the Lord seems to hear and respond to these deep pleadings and and requests that are actually unspoken......except for these sounds.

Yes, I know what you mean Charlie. I haven't had any language, but have had times when I simply cannot do anything but groan. That's when, as I understand scripture, Christ is praying for me or whomever I'm despairing for. There are times when there's just nothing that rolls off the tongue - it's just too much.

Been there when my husband died in a plane crash just after we were married. Could not express words, but groaned a lot.
Candice

[Kevin Blankenship]

While we are sharing experiences, let me share one. I was living in Murfreesboro Tennessee at the time. Away from home. I was, essentially, homeless. I had been in a rehab there, but it didn't work out, but I got clean in the process. A little elderly lady observed my plight, (right before I tried to go back to Savannah (home, and 120 miles away)), she took me in, and let me start working with her cleaning houses. I was freshly sober and was depending on God for a place to live and for food....which he graciously provided. My prayer life was at an all time high. I never failed to arise early and seek God's face with fervency of heart. (Being in dire situations tend to get one's priorities aligned better than the best of the good books out there....excepting the Bible of course.). One evening, I had been fervently praying for a Spiritual Gift. Didn't matter which, just any. I drifted off to sleep at around 5 pm one evening after work. I woke up, after being asleep an hour, glorifying God and speaking in an unknown tongue. I was merely giving a voice to what was bursting upon my mouth to speak. It sounded different, and even felt ALOT different from all of those other times in church when the pastor would admonish the crowd: "Okay, I want everyone who has been Baptized in the Holy Ghost to come forward and lay hands on the person and began praying in your prayer language!!!! I do not want to hear anyone praying in English!!!" (which, by the way, I found highly questionable, yet I did what I was told as it was common at this particulate church....this was back when I lived in Savannah and was very involved in the aforementioned church). Anyway, back in Murfreesboro, one evening, the gift of tongues brought me up out of sleep to a mode of wide-awakedness, and a general sense that God was all in this phenomenon. Along with tongues, came an outbursting of praise (in Engish).
Now, as I look back on that event, I can understand VERY MUCH why God, in His wisdom, doesn't want us focusing on "past experiences" as faith builders. That event, as Holy of a moment as it was, and as comforting to a very worried, scared, guy that I was, I still don't look back on that to build my faith. I have tried....and it has no power to do anything. It happened, it's over, time for more. Faith comes by hearing. And HEARING!!!...comes by the Word of God. I have heard hundreds of preachers misquote that: they say: "Faith comes by hearing the word of God" so that it will make more sense to carnal ears. But the Bible says that HEARING comes by the word of God. It would appear that everytime the "word of God" is stated, it is not necessarily talking about the completed canon of Scripture. But God's actual word: "Ears...BE OPENED!!!!" The word of God....like that!!!! Kind of like Jesus, on several occasions "opening their minds so that they could understand scripture". I believe that if we HEAR (or read....aloud?) Scripture, that God must do a work on the heart and mind to be receptive. But I am getting into something here......I am traveling down a road that this thread was not even intended to go down. Sorry about that. Anyway....my Murfreesboro experience. (Here is what is weird, I was attending Calvary Chapel of Murfreesboro at the time.....yet they NEVER talked about the gifts and certainly not an unbalanced focus on Tongues).

[Julie Daube]

Yup,
Julie, I just remembered that my friend who is fully Calvary Chapel (her husband was a CC pastor) has the gift of tongues. She told me she only speaks when she is agonizing over something and cannot speak. Kind of what Charlie posted above. Like a prayer language that is a rare event for her. She does not publicly speak and her husband has never witnessed this. I will ask her more when I see her on Wednesday in Fort Collins. She doesn't talk about it at all. It was a one-time conversation we had a few years ago.

Very intersesting, as I have never publicly spoken in tongues either. Often when I've prayed in tongues, it was when I was agonzing over something or interceding for a need that was heavy on my heart. It wasn't just a groaning, though - it was definitely another language, and sometimes it sounded Asian.

I also want to say how sorry I was to hear about the loss of your husband so soon after you were married. I can't imagine any words that could express such sorrow and grief. I pray that you have experienced the comfort and peace that only Jesus provides.

Blessings,
Julie

[ADVRider]

The tongues question is, IMO, a bit of a difficult topic because there are, pun intended, so many interpretations of the various scriptures mentioning speaking in tongues. Pentecostals do generally believe that any Christian can speak in tongues as a sign of infilling, a prayer language, etc. They distinguish the use of tongues in a public gathering (requiring an interpreter) as a distinct spiritual gift (as the other gifts in 1 Cor 12.) that is not given to everybody. Though far from clear, this view suggests that there are two uses of tongues, public and private and that in some sense, they are not even the same thing. I only say this because some people have not heard this and cannot understand why pentecostals, etc. say everyone can speak in tongues when 1 Cor. 12 speaks otherwise. They are referring to this first sense of tongues, not the public meeting sense.

As for why many denominations don't experience tongues, you also have to asky why they don't experience any of the other spiritual gifts in their meetings. This is possibly the bigger question. Many, I presume are cessationist and that likely precludes them from experiencing these gifts. So yes, there can be an undue stress on tongues, but IMO, there is an under-emphasis in general on all the spiritual gifts in many circles.

[Kevin Blankenship]

Well said, John, and that likely sounds strange coming from me. I have been focusing on the negative aspect of my experiences. Wish I hadn't of been so emphatic now. I feel like a fuddy dud.
But I wholeheartedly agree that there is an under-emphasis on ALL of the Gifts.......ironically, even in the Full Gospel churches. But....one can pray in one's 'prayer language' easier than opening the eyes of a man born blind. I know that "the spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet" but red flags go flying up when the entire church (it seems) is all praying in tongues (as they call it...therefore there is no need for an interpreter....because it's a prayer language: "If I pray with understanding.......If I pray with my spirit".....etc etc.

[ADVRider]

I know that "the spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet" but red flags go flying up when the entire church (it seems) is all praying in tongues (as they call it...therefore there is no need for an interpreter....because it's a prayer language: "If I pray with understanding.......If I pray with my spirit".....etc etc.

I have questioned this many times myself. I've been in meetings like you have where it's a tongue fest. And we know Paul says basically, keep it to yourself in a public meeting, or the unbeliever will come in and think you are all mad (crazy). It's an interesting thought that Paul did not say they were all crazy, just that they would appear to be, and possibly the idea that in a community setting, they would be out of order. I've learned to pretty much not let it bother me either way, but I've been in some pretty wild and crazy meetings like you have. My bibile school (pentecostal) professor used to say, "wildfire is better than no fire" to describe this and other "happenings" in pentecostal and charismatic circles. Some of it can sure get strange, can't it?

[Kevin Blankenship]

John, I happened to have it on the Trinity Broadcasting channel tonight and Joseph Prince (the latest bright star pastor....said with all due respect) was preaching on the lack of Spiritual Gifts in the church today. His is a Charismatic fellowship. At the close of the sermon, Pastor Prince advised everyone to start "speaking in tongues" and as they did, he started asking for Jesus to send the Promise of the Father....the Holy Spirit. No sound instruction was given....as Paul the Apostle gave to the Corinthian church, under the genuine unction of the Holy Spirit. You know John, Paul was likely led to give particular instruction about the use of Spiritual Gifts to the church at Corinth because the where likely doing the very same thing. I actually believe that we are going to have to have a man of God come around and re-instruct us. There was a valid reason why Paul was led to record those instructions for the use of Spiritual Gifts in Public Worship. And I know that the foklks in Prince's church have the same bible.....but I do NOT see how they can overlook such clear instruction. I just don't know anymore. I'm all for starting a Home Church. If everyone of us had web cams we could all have a thirty minute service togther, once a week. A different person could lead it each week. Maybe kind of like an Alliance Cyber Church.....or something. We could sing a few hymns. Listen to a different speaker every time,

[ADVRider]

I actually believe that we are going to have to have a man of God come around and re-instruct us.

Hi Kevin,

Great post, as your others too. I believe this man has already come around. His name was Paul, a disciple of Jesus. He said, "but I show you a better way...." But learning that way takes a long time and a lot of dying. But I agree with you really. We still need men and women of God who can demonstrate the life and the love of God in our day, right now. They are here, and they are coming I believe. They will live and demonstrate the better way and their lives will have true spiritual authority. God will get His body in order before Jesus breaks the clouds.

[Lori Smith]

I'm too much of a coward to get in the middle of this conversation! I'm a Pentecostal. That doesn't mean I agree with much of what I see on T.V. I have a hard time fitting in places because I embrace Tozer's way of seeing things, but a bit more boisterously!

[Ginger]

Lori,

I thank you so very much. God is so good I shy away from a lot that is on TV. Your share gave me