5 replies to this topic

[Candice]

Reading Watchman Nee's "The Normal Christian Life". Chapter four, near the end of that chapter, page 80 & 82, the Nee writes about our position in Christ v. experiences: "...God has done the work in Christ and not in us as individuals. The all-inclusive death and the all-inclusive resurrection of God's Son were accomplished fully and finally apart from us in the first place. It is the history of Christ which is to become the experience of the Christian, and we have no spiritual experience apart from him....In the Scriptures, we find that no Christian experience exists as such....It is altogether wrong for us to think that we can experience anything of the spiritual life in OURSELVES merely, and apart from him. I am not questioning the reality of the spiritual experiences we go through, nor the importance of crises to which God brings us in our walk with him...But the point is that God does not give INDIVIDUALS INDIVIDUAL experiences. All that they have is only an entering into what God has already done...the entire work with respect to US is not done in US here, but in Christ. He does no separate work in INDIVIDUALS apart from what he has done there."

Now, this particular section really stood out to me in my reading today. I am wondering how this ties into everyday INDIVIDUAL experiences with the LORD. Where is this passage correct and where may it be faulty?

[Candice]

Oh, and also, how does this line of thought tie into "the second blessing" which seems more INDIVIDUALIZED where not everyone experiences it??

[Kevin Blankenship]

Candace, I am presently reading that book on my "darling" little Kindle reader (though I have read it a few times on the net, and have actually downloaded the entire book and printed it. I would print a chapter...then read it. Print the next chapter, then read it.
Anyway, I have recently been reading Brother Nee's "Normal Christian Life" I sort of "stalled out" on that chapter. Oh, I read the chapter. And I have to say, that his teaching has merit. I know that it might not go hand in hand with some of the "Statement of Beliefs" found on some denominations websites )and I have been visiting many many many.
But aren't we told by ALL the classic writers (Andrew Murray, Tozer, many others, etc etc) that we, as individuals, have no power in ourself to produce any deep change in us. We can only provide acquiescence, and even that must be touched by God (prevenient grace as Tozer and many others taught). Chapter four of Brother Nee's book didn't really seem to be a stumbling block for me, but explained some stuff . (I am not implying that it was a stumbling block for you....at all). I am just giving my thoughts on that chapter, or rather, a summation of my thoughts.
I suppose as I read these classic writer's and I find points of contention between their teaching and conventional thought, I must (and I know that you already know this) use the Scriptures as our final authority.....a prayerful reading of such, and let God's Spirit speak to us, as individuals, on the matter. And I must always be prepared to lay conventional ("I thought all the modern churches taught this") aside if the Spirit seems to be leading us down a slightly different path.
But I think that our goal is , or should be: " I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,^[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought." I Cor. 1:10

[Lori Smith]

I appreciate how Tozer analyzes the tension: "Always everywhere God is present, and always He seeks to discover Himself to each one (The Pursuit of God).

[ADVRider]

Nee writes about our position in Christ v. experiences: "...God has done the work in Christ and not in us as individuals. The all-inclusive death and the all-inclusive resurrection of God's Son were accomplished fully and finally apart from us in the first place. It is the history of Christ which is to become the experience of the Christian, and we have no spiritual experience apart from him....In the Scriptures, we find that no Christian experience exists as such....It is altogether wrong for us to think that we can experience anything of the spiritual life in OURSELVES merely, and apart from him. I am not questioning the reality of the spiritual experiences we go through, nor the importance of crises to which God brings us in our walk with him...But the point is that God does not give INDIVIDUALS INDIVIDUAL experiences. All that they have is only an entering into what God has already done...the entire work with respect to US is not done in US here, but in Christ. He does no separate work in INDIVIDUALS apart from what he has done there."

I am wondering how this ties into everyday INDIVIDUAL experiences with the LORD.

I never read the book and therefore I found this quoted passage a little difficult to follow, but could he simply be saying that an experience can be valid, just not in itself? Meaning, we can have a valid experience that comes from the Lord, but these experiences do not validate us or give us any credo (i.e., don't make us any more spiritual than the next person) apart from God Himself. In this view, God is the source of our spirituality, not the experience. Not sure, that's all I can get out of it, not having read the book. Or possibly beyond that, in his culture, Nee would have seen a lot of people who had spiritual experiences, but were Buddhist, Tao, etc. Perhaps he was writing to an audience that really needed to have a strong distinction.

[Candice]

...Meaning, we can have a valid experience that comes from the Lord, but these experiences do not validate us or give us any credo (i.e., don't make us any more spiritual than the next person) apart from God Himself. In this view, God is the source of our spirituality, not the experience. Not sure, that's all I can get out of it, not having read the book. Or possibly beyond that, in his culture, Nee would have seen a lot of people who had spiritual experiences, but were Buddhist, Tao, etc. Perhaps he was writing to an audience that really needed to have a strong distinction.

Hi Albert,
Awesome response! Yes, this is kind of what I believe here. I have a friend who "validates" her "knowing' the LORD by her experience of receiving the gift of tongues. So, in her explanation, she received the Holy Spirit only upon this experience. She was saved, but then she received the gift and that validated it all. I disagree with her. I'm posting another thread on this "experience".

Thank you!!
Blessings,
Candice