6 replies to this topic

[Candice]

I'm wondering what the ultimate relevant significance is attached to repentance and our salvation Listening to a Practicing the Presence of God CD series, I have been considering this relationship.

The author explains something we all really know theoretically. That is that with respect to repentance, our mind, will and emotions must be impacted since the three are really inseparable. All three equal the flesh. If our emotions lead us, the other two will soon follow, and vise versa. Thus, repentance is really a spiritual exchange. Let me try to explain further...using an extreme example..

I have a Christian friend who has a rocky relationship with her 40 year-old Christian daughter. Both can really not be together for more than a day without her daughter screaming at her so much that she actually loses her voice, then is sorry, but is so continuously angry that her mother hasn't "changed". She is angry that her mother hasn't saved enough money to take care of herself and she cannot and does not want to help her. Her mother is in dire straits because, at 70 she recently lost her job, has to sell her home, etc. Of course, I'm asking myself has the daughter changed???

So, in this case and many others like it, the flesh rules the day whether it's her emotions first and her mind and will follow or whatever. My response to my friend is simply, "your daughter needs to forgive her history (before Christ) with you." According to the author of the CDs, saying this is more frustrating. There needs to be an openness, a supernatural exchange, a yielding to the Spirit of God in every single interaction we have while we are listening to someone speak - not just listening to a spiritual talk, a sermon, etc., but at each exchange. I believe this is what Paul is trying to accomplish through Christ (Rom. 7) when he expresses his frustration at doing what he does not want to do and not doing what he wants to do.

Can we really be saved if we haven't truly repented???

Any thoughts, insights, experiences to share? I'm particularly interested in yielding. This yielding is what I want moment-to-moment. It is so lofty - like catching a hummingbird!

[Charles Miles]

Very interesting questions Candice. I know what I think about the question and answer, but I will be curious to see what others understand about what we need for salvation. If we use the word "repent" to mean a turning around to walk in a different direction..I think it becomes more clear. Who could stand to meet a holy God with an unrepentant heart that still walks the same direction and paths it did before? Can one even meet God with an unrepentant heart? Throughout the bible, men who have been in God`s presence have all reacted the same way....and it was not unrepentence! How about..."woe is me, for I am a man of unclean lips"...."Woe is me, for I am undone"....or "stuck dumb".
Good post Candice and a good solid question. I will be interested in replies by Thinker, Kevin, Lori, Travis, pastor Young, and the other pastors on here. And Jay, what about you?

[Kevin Blankenship]

My overall repentance, of emotions, intellect,, the whole person of kevin Blankenship has been like this. When I FORST asked Christ to be Lord of my life, I didn't have much of a clue about just HOW lost and undon that I REALLY was. But as I eagerly prayed for a genuine salvation, I was Spirit-led (I am FULLY convinced) to pray and ask God to show me who I REALLY am. REALLY!!!! And God started answering immediately. He gave me a keenness and presence of mind to be able to see how I reacted in each and every circumstance. And at night, as I reviewed my day and inventoryed and inspected my relations to other people, it became increasing clearer and clearer that I was a VERY selfish individual. So I went through the stage of trying to change myself. I would try to manufacture feelings of love and benevolence when DEEP DOWN all I REALLY wanted was to for ME to be happy. I didn't give even 5% thought time in how to be a blessing to others. It was all about ME ME ME. Well, during all of this, I was also being introspective and evidently, the Lord had a Hand in it, because I began to see more and more that I, Kevin Blankenship, REALLY DID need a Savior, and also that I was absolutely unable to change one thing about me. I realized that my "WANT TO-er" was broken and need the touch of the Masters hand. I began asking God to give me a heart for the lost, a heart for the poor and needy, and spiritually poor and needy as well, and I started feeling myself becoming more empathetic.
To summarize: If I had been so lazy to NOT constantly question: "Have I REALLY....had a Salvation experience? Or am I just following the formula that so many follow." Then I would have been in a total flesh fest by now, and I would have only remained a nominal Christian. If I had reasoned: :"Well, I did it. I went up front, took the pastor by his (very smooth) hand, and followed along as he led me in the 'prayer of salvation'. All is well now. I am heaven bound. Now....I will get me a good wholesome hobby and pour my heart into it". I would never have changed. My heart of hearts (to use today's church vernacular) was not fully committed to Christ when I first joined the team....so to speak. It has been a progressive change for me. I was SO blinded by my own selfinshness and by my own (secret) high regard that I held for myself. I could go on and on, but you get the picture I;m sure. Great thread!!!!!!! I hope that it makes all of us wonder and make 'EVERY effort to make our calling and election SURE".

[radar]

Well said Kevin! I can agree this has been the experince of my walk also. I read this devotional today by Ray Stedman and it does a great job of explaining our old nature and even though it is not using the words Salvation and repentance, it does convey the concept in that it reveals the flesh nature and why we must walk in the Spirit.

And Abimelech asked Abraham, What was your reason for doing this? (Genesis 20:10).

Has anyone had to say to you, As a Christian, what were you thinking of when you did this thing? Have you ever had to say it to yourself: What got into me anyway? I thought I was further along in the Christian life than this. Here I have done this thing that I thought had long ago passed out of my life. Whatever got into me? If you have ever had to ask yourself that, you need to learn the lesson Abraham had to learn here.
You are still capable of the worst sin that you have ever committed—and more. Abraham has been a coward for thirty years, and he is still capable of being the same coward he was at the beginning, hiding behind his wife, subjecting her to dishonor and disgrace and shame in order to protect his own skin.
This old nature with which we are born, which is perverted and twisted so that it never operates as God intended it to, is totally depraved. That does not mean that it cannot do what appears to be nice things in the eyes of others and even of ourselves. There is something about the old self, the flesh, which is able to simulate righteousness. In the flesh's pursuit after pseudorighteousness, even if it succeeds in an outward demonstration of a sweet and lovely nature, it has never achieved anything but self-righteousness. Self-righteousness always demands self-praise, a longing to be admired and to win the attention of others. If you fail in your pursuit of self-righteousness, the result is self-pity. Either way, it is the flesh, and it can never please God. This is why when God comes into the human heart through Christ, He never tries to do anything about cleaning up that old nature. He writes it off as worthless. No matter how it looks in the eyes of others, if it comes from the self-advancing, self-centered core, it is worthless, and it always will be. What you now are in the flesh you always will be, if you live a hundred years. If you lay hold of that concept, you will find it one of the most encouraging truths in your Christian life, because it will release you from that awful burden of self-effort that tries to make the old nature behave itself. You must renounce self as the Word of God tells you to and quit feeding it, protecting it, polishing it up, trying to make it look good. Give it up. Accept all that Jesus Christ is in you and wants to be through you, for His nature is perfect.
Any dependence upon self always results in the kind of experience that Abraham had. After thirty years of walking with God and learning wonderful lessons in the spiritual life, the minute he steps out of a dependence upon God, he steps back into that same ugly nature he had in the beginning, and it is unchanged after thirty years. Old natures have to be kept under control by walking in the Spirit. Live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature, Paul tells us (Galatians 5:16).

Father, You have not called me to improve myself. Help me to recognize what I am, that in myself I can never be good enough, and to appropriate all that Christ can be to me and through me, for His life is satisfying to You.

Life Application: Our old natures never die and we can be confused by its deceptiveness. Are we choosing to die to all of that and live out our new identity in the Lord Jesus Christ?

[Lori Smith]

Hi Candice,

That's a loaded question! No, salvation can't exist without true repentance. However, no one can conceive of their entire need of repentance when they take the first step. God realizes that and draws us through the Holy Spirit. Once we surrender our lives to God, we entire into a lifetime of sanctification. As we grow, the Lord shows us another area He wishes to refine.

That being said, I think it's important to understand how we yield. It can either be a grit your teeth effort (with no results), or a yielding to God's Spirit (which is a walk of grace). Indeed, the flesh will always be flesh. It can't be changed, but it can be overcome when the Holy Spirit guides, for we follow Him and ignore the pull of the flesh.

Perhaps, your friend and her daughter would benefit from some Christian counseling. There are so many possibilities regarding their relationship. I can give you an example why I believe this (although the situation with your friend could be entirely different-even opposite). I know a girl who was raised by an abusive mother. The mother locked her in a closet during her early years. She was tied to a potty-chair every day when the mother left the home.

The girl eventually grew up and was doing ok, until stress overwhelmed her one day and she ended up in a mental hospital. She was a Christian by that time. She got better and was able to cope enough. She lived on medication and disability. She struggled with hearing voices. One day a well-meaning church told her that she had to forgive and be reconciled with her mother. It plunged this girl into a downward spiral. The constant guilt she has about her mother sends her back into mental hospitals yearly. Her mother presently lives next door to her. The poor girl feels it is her duty to help her mother; however, it is destroying her.

Sometimes it is not quite so simple to ask whether there is unrepentant sin. In the case of your friend's daughter, it may very well be that she is either not saved or is a carnal Christian. On the other hand, she may be emotionally broken. Either way, Christian counseling might help both of them set goals and boundaries they both can live with.

That's my humble opinion for what it's worth!

Shalom,
Lori

[Charles Miles]

In my mind, one of the first if not the first, steps toward salvation is to realize that we don`t have it and that there is nothing we can do ourselves that warrents such a gift. Try as we may, our efforts are but filthy rags that we try to present to a holy God to show Him our worthiness. One doesn`t go to hell because of what he does, but because of what he is. We simply can`t change what we are and deep down in our soul we know how bad we are, as well as all the bad things we have done due to this"old man", this "sin nature" that is really who we are. Man has always tried to reach up to God though his own efforts...that is called religion and it has never worked...never. When we admit that we can`t do it ourselves, we then turn to the One who can do it for us....and already has done it for us....Jesus. Maybe some do not turn to Him and just choose to live in the squalid mess we wallow in daily, but that is so sad and so unnecessary. I guess people repent in different ways sometimes, but the result should be to say that we are done with the sorry ways in which we tried to live our lives up until that point, and now desire to change how we live to be pleasing to the Lord. For myself, I told Him how sorry I was for all the mess in the past and asked for forgiveness. In turn I wanted to give Him control over the living of my life from that point on. I think one has to realize that he is going in the wrong direction before he can understand that he needs to "turn around and walk another way"(repent), but if I understand my bible, this certainly has to be done at some point. Many of us have tried to "turn around" in the past, but it just didn`t take. When we listen to Jesus and he says, "take my hand and I`ll turn you around", now we are getting somewhere. As we turn and look at Him, He says He has a new covenant to make with us..."I will write my laws on your heart, I will be your God, and I will remember your sins no more". Do we still sin? yes, but we are a new creation from that point on, and God sees us not in our failures but He sees us as righteous due to the work of Jesus. Do I still feel inadequate many times? You bet. But that is not what God sees when He looks at me! He sees the righteousness of Christ. What a deal, what a savior, what a God we have to have arrainged all this for us. Do we need to repent? Daily, but understand the forgiveness is already there.....waiting.

Yours in Christ,

Charlie

[elizabethcog]

Every single day often many times I go to the Lord in prayer....I admit that I am so selfish and critical and me focused,but I believe (His word confirms it) that He sees me as a jewel a pretty worthy one and He wants me to worship him in my mind heart and soul and love others.....well Jesus doesnt need a thing from me but I desire to please God and since Jesus paved the road that is the one I pray to follow... in all my life I never thought I would ever believe in Jesus see, I ran from him and said I do not believe in you(sad but true)He never gave up on me,He saw me as His child and loved me..my salvation had nothing to do with me but everything to do with Him.I hope to have many years here if for no other reason so that I might seek those that are lost however He leads me to,peace and love,in Christ