Salvation Repentance
#1
Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:09 PM
The author explains something we all really know theoretically. That is that with respect to repentance, our mind, will and emotions must be impacted since the three are really inseparable. All three equal the flesh. If our emotions lead us, the other two will soon follow, and vise versa. Thus, repentance is really a spiritual exchange. Let me try to explain further...using an extreme example..
I have a Christian friend who has a rocky relationship with her 40 year-old Christian daughter. Both can really not be together for more than a day without her daughter screaming at her so much that she actually loses her voice, then is sorry, but is so continuously angry that her mother hasn't "changed". She is angry that her mother hasn't saved enough money to take care of herself and she cannot and does not want to help her. Her mother is in dire straits because, at 70 she recently lost her job, has to sell her home, etc. Of course, I'm asking myself has the daughter changed???
So, in this case and many others like it, the flesh rules the day whether it's her emotions first and her mind and will follow or whatever. My response to my friend is simply, "your daughter needs to forgive her history (before Christ) with you." According to the author of the CDs, saying this is more frustrating. There needs to be an openness, a supernatural exchange, a yielding to the Spirit of God in every single interaction we have while we are listening to someone speak - not just listening to a spiritual talk, a sermon, etc., but at each exchange. I believe this is what Paul is trying to accomplish through Christ (Rom. 7) when he expresses his frustration at doing what he does not want to do and not doing what he wants to do.
Can we really be saved if we haven't truly repented???
Any thoughts, insights, experiences to share? I'm particularly interested in yielding. This yielding is what I want moment-to-moment. It is so lofty - like catching a hummingbird!
- Charles Miles, Thinker and radar like this
#2
Posted 18 June 2013 - 09:20 AM
Good post Candice and a good solid question. I will be interested in replies by Thinker, Kevin, Lori, Travis, pastor Young, and the other pastors on here. And Jay, what about you?
#3
Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:23 AM
To summarize: If I had been so lazy to NOT constantly question: "Have I REALLY....had a Salvation experience? Or am I just following the formula that so many follow." Then I would have been in a total flesh fest by now, and I would have only remained a nominal Christian. If I had reasoned: :"Well, I did it. I went up front, took the pastor by his (very smooth) hand, and followed along as he led me in the 'prayer of salvation'. All is well now. I am heaven bound. Now....I will get me a good wholesome hobby and pour my heart into it". I would never have changed. My heart of hearts (to use today's church vernacular) was not fully committed to Christ when I first joined the team....so to speak. It has been a progressive change for me. I was SO blinded by my own selfinshness and by my own (secret) high regard that I held for myself. I could go on and on, but you get the picture I;m sure. Great thread!!!!!!! I hope that it makes all of us wonder and make 'EVERY effort to make our calling and election SURE".
- Charles Miles and radar like this
#4
Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:56 AM
And Abimelech asked Abraham, What was your reason for doing this? (Genesis 20:10).
You are still capable of the worst sin that you have ever committed—and more. Abraham has been a coward for thirty years, and he is still capable of being the same coward he was at the beginning, hiding behind his wife, subjecting her to dishonor and disgrace and shame in order to protect his own skin.
This old nature with which we are born, which is perverted and twisted so that it never operates as God intended it to, is totally depraved. That does not mean that it cannot do what appears to be nice things in the eyes of others and even of ourselves. There is something about the old self, the flesh, which is able to simulate righteousness. In the flesh's pursuit after pseudorighteousness, even if it succeeds in an outward demonstration of a sweet and lovely nature, it has never achieved anything but self-righteousness. Self-righteousness always demands self-praise, a longing to be admired and to win the attention of others. If you fail in your pursuit of self-righteousness, the result is self-pity. Either way, it is the flesh, and it can never please God. This is why when God comes into the human heart through Christ, He never tries to do anything about cleaning up that old nature. He writes it off as worthless. No matter how it looks in the eyes of others, if it comes from the self-advancing, self-centered core, it is worthless, and it always will be. What you now are in the flesh you always will be, if you live a hundred years. If you lay hold of that concept, you will find it one of the most encouraging truths in your Christian life, because it will release you from that awful burden of self-effort that tries to make the old nature behave itself. You must renounce self as the Word of God tells you to and quit feeding it, protecting it, polishing it up, trying to make it look good. Give it up. Accept all that Jesus Christ is in you and wants to be through you, for His nature is perfect.
Any dependence upon self always results in the kind of experience that Abraham had. After thirty years of walking with God and learning wonderful lessons in the spiritual life, the minute he steps out of a dependence upon God, he steps back into that same ugly nature he had in the beginning, and it is unchanged after thirty years. Old natures have to be kept under control by walking in the Spirit. Live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature, Paul tells us (Galatians 5:16).
Father, You have not called me to improve myself. Help me to recognize what I am, that in myself I can never be good enough, and to appropriate all that Christ can be to me and through me, for His life is satisfying to You.
- Lori Smith likes this
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven."
#5
Posted 19 June 2013 - 01:43 PM
That's a loaded question! No, salvation can't exist without true repentance. However, no one can conceive of their entire need of repentance when they take the first step. God realizes that and draws us through the Holy Spirit. Once we surrender our lives to God, we entire into a lifetime of sanctification. As we grow, the Lord shows us another area He wishes to refine.
That being said, I think it's important to understand how we yield. It can either be a grit your teeth effort (with no results), or a yielding to God's Spirit (which is a walk of grace). Indeed, the flesh will always be flesh. It can't be changed, but it can be overcome when the Holy Spirit guides, for we follow Him and ignore the pull of the flesh.
Perhaps, your friend and her daughter would benefit from some Christian counseling. There are so many possibilities regarding their relationship. I can give you an example why I believe this (although the situation with your friend could be entirely different-even opposite). I know a girl who was raised by an abusive mother. The mother locked her in a closet during her early years. She was tied to a potty-chair every day when the mother left the home.
The girl eventually grew up and was doing ok, until stress overwhelmed her one day and she ended up in a mental hospital. She was a Christian by that time. She got better and was able to cope enough. She lived on medication and disability. She struggled with hearing voices. One day a well-meaning church told her that she had to forgive and be reconciled with her mother. It plunged this girl into a downward spiral. The constant guilt she has about her mother sends her back into mental hospitals yearly. Her mother presently lives next door to her. The poor girl feels it is her duty to help her mother; however, it is destroying her.
Sometimes it is not quite so simple to ask whether there is unrepentant sin. In the case of your friend's daughter, it may very well be that she is either not saved or is a carnal Christian. On the other hand, she may be emotionally broken. Either way, Christian counseling might help both of them set goals and boundaries they both can live with.
That's my humble opinion for what it's worth!
Shalom,
Lori
#6
Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:28 PM
Yours in Christ,
Charlie
#7
Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:51 PM
- Charles Miles likes this