15 replies to this topic

[Kevin Blankenship]

I have read in Romans First Corinthians 15:45 that says:"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." My question arises from a passage Romans 5:18 which states: " Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.
Please do not try to read anything into my asking this. Actually, I think that it is a good question, and fitting for one such as I to be asking at this stage. So I've no regrets in the asking. Here it is: If I received from the First Adam...death...judgement, sin,....sickness....condemnation, and I didn't ask for it....but it was passed down to me from Adam, irregardless of whether I want it or not........then how is it that Jesus can be compared to Adam??? And for the Last Adam's life to affect my life, I must FIRST believe!!!! And obey!!! Right????
Well, why is it that I am going to receive my portion from the First Adam whether I am an atheist, or an agnostic, or a Buddist, or even if I don't believe in the creation story at all. I am STILL affected by the First Adam. BUT.......the only way that I can engage the Last Adam...is by faith. Brothers and sisters, are you following me??? As you can see....I am not trying to get real deep here. And a real deep, and theological answer is liable to be totally lost on me. I just found myself wondering this week.....if the First Adam's "blessings" (a bit of sarcasm) came to me and I had to believe nothing, do nothing, worship nothing, then why is it that the Last Adam's life can only affect mine if I "believe in God's one and only Son." I appreciate any feedback on this. I do NOT know why I am letting this bug me!!! I mean....it is not affecting my joy and peace with Jesus. And I have asked Him the same question, reverentially, and He may very well use one of y'all to fill in this hole in my working creed.

[Kenny]

If I received from the First Adam...death...judgement, sin,....sickness....condemnation, and I didn't ask for it....but it was passed down to me from Adam, irregardless of whether I want it or not........then how is it that Jesus can be compared to Adam???

“For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. . . . The first man Adam became a living being, the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.” (1 Corinthians 15:21–22; 15:45–47).

Paul recognized an interesting parallel, as well as contrast, between Adam and Jesus. Adam was created immortal and was to be God’s representative and steward on the earth, to fulfill the divine purpose. World dominion was granted to him. He was commissioned to subdue the earth. The Last Adam implies that there would not be a third representative man, sinless, as were both Christ and Adam.

The Last Adam, Jesus, was sinless, and like the first Adam, had no human father. Christ is immortal and is heaven’s representative on earth. He will subdue both heaven and earth: “At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.” (Philippians 2:10–11). Adam’s disobedience resulted in death for man, both spiritually and physically. Christ’s death resulted in everlasting life for those that repent and submit to him. And just as we have borne the likeness of Adam, the earthly man, so shall we, one day, bear the likeness of Jesus, the man from heaven. (1 Corinthians 1:49)
Jesus Christ, the last Adam, freely offered himself as atonement for man’s sin and purchased eternal life for all who trust Him.

http://www.answersin...4/the-last-adam

[Candice]

Kevin,

Your post is a very reasonable and deep question that I believe addresses "the mystery of our salvation" so often referred to in scripture. I am praying this morning on this because we do need to be prepared to give an answer for the hope that we have when others inquire. This mystery needs to be more fully understood, captured in our minds and hearts, and articulated to others as part of the Gospel to others.

Thank you for posting. It is great for prayer. I have a woman neighbor who has been asking me so many questions about Christ, etc. who I am witnessing these days. So, this will be an added element to the wonders of Christ!

Kenny,
Your response is so full and complete and yet concise that who can add to it. It is a mystery beyond what you've written here brother. Thanks for that. It is so beautiful huh?

Candice

[Lori Smith]

My sense comes from the fact that -flesh gives birth to flesh, and Spirit gives birth to spirit (see John 3:6). Human flesh cannot give birth to something containing God's Spirit. Why then doesn't God just breathe on everyone? I think for the same reason He gave Adam the option from the very beginning; He wants to be chosen. Indeed, Jesus calls Himself the "Bridegroom" (John 3:29); thus, choosing Jesus is like getting married, and God doesn't want a prearranged marriage. Instead, He proposes and watches to see who comes. He wants to be chosen for love, for He is love.

I think the book of Hosea depicts this relationship well, for God described Israel as a prostitute because she chased after other gods. Thus, God saw Himself as her husband. He sees us the same way through Christ, but He wants us to choose Him. I think it would be interesting to look at how many marriage metaphors are used throughout the Bible.

Anyway, this is simply my own understanding. Great question Kevin

[Kenny]

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6
-flesh gives birth to flesh, and Spirit gives birth to spirit (see John 3:6). Human flesh cannot give birth to something containing God's Spirit.

Amen

It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. John 6:63 - English Standard Bible

[Kevin Blankenship]

Two Adams: the first Adam, Eve's husband, sinned.....therefore all humans after him.....died, and suffered other things as well.....sickness, thorny ground, having to extract our living by the sweat of our brow, just to name a few by memory. Okay....let us travel from then (many say roughly 6000 yrs ago, give or take) to now. Let us take Fred American. He is a non-believer. He works hard. Has a family, a faithful wife, a house, car, cattle, hogs, etc etc. But....due to Adam's fall.....Fred has a massive heart attack and leaves behind a grieving wife and family. Fred did NOT know God. He had not really gone out of his way to find out about God. He would sometimes see the TV preachers up there trying to coax 50 bux (all credit cards accepted) for a CD sermon series on "How to Prosper....God's way." by John Anvanzini....or Mike Murdock. (take your pick). The point is.....Adam's life effected Fred's life. and Fred never new ONE THING about Adam, or even the creation story. Sadly, he didn't follow the promptings of the Spirit when he sat, spellbouind, on a starry night, asking himself: "how did all of this come to be." Never-the-less, Fred passes on. Although he didn't BELIEVE in Adam.....he was STILL effected by the fall of Adam.
Now.....enter Jesus Christ (and with all respect due to the King of kings) as the Last Adam. Fred never "gave his heart" or "accepted" Jesus Christ as his "Lord and Savior" (to use the current church-talk). Now......although Fred didn't believe in EITHER of the ADAM's, the first...or the Last,......Fred's life was only effected by the first Adam. Accept for those brief times (like on the night he sat under the stars, relaxing with his wife, and pondering about how it all came to be) that could possibly be Spirit-promptings, the Last Adam didn't have much effect on Fred's life. Fred died without personally knowing much of anything about a Book that bored him when he heard it read. And Fred died without knowing the Author of that Book....the Bible. It would seem that the First Adam had a stronger claim on Fred's life than did the Last Adam!!!!!
Let me change gears: Back up to when Fred was 24 years old, and still not married. He heard a preacher preach about sin. The preacher even had the same "struggles" as Fred had. Somehow Fred realized and was able to believe that what the Preacher was preaching was the answer to the very questions that he had been asking. Fred went home after the revival. Fred was consumed with thoughts about: Is there REALLY a God???? If so, will HE REALLY help me???? Does God REALLY love me??? Fred falls to his knees and cries out: "Oh God...if you are even real....I SO want to believe in You and I want my life to be effected by You....for I recognize now, that the Words in the Bible are true, and since they are true, they carry major implications. God, if You want me......here I am......perverted thoughts and all. God was waiting. And God intervened in Fred's life. Fast forward many years. Fred is on his death bed with wife holding his weak hand, that had once been strong and veiny. Fred had a smile on his face. Peace was written all over his face as he prepared to finally get to meet the One...The Last Adam.....to whom Fred had put all of his trust for redemption, salvation, propitiation. Fred knew that, if it wern't for Jesus, there would be no reason to pray....for Jesus was the One who reconciled all men unto God. The Last Adam......HAD effected Fred's life.
In summary: The first Adam effects our life, whether we want him to or whether we don't want him to. BUT, the Last Adam will only effect our life......if we WANT HIM to.....and then.....by faith....which is not even our own.....for to EVERY man is given....a measure of faith. The End (why I just went off on that tangent...I will never know!!!! I was working in the garden.....a thundercloud came up...I came inside....and sat down to read the latest post. I appreciate everyone's replies!!)

[Kenny]

Two Adams: the first Adam, Eve's husband, sinned.....therefore all humans after him.....died, and suffered other things as well.....sickness, thorny ground, having to extract our living by the sweat of our brow, just to name a few by memory. Okay....let us travel from then (many say roughly 6000 yrs ago, give or take) to now. Let us take Fred American. He is a non-believer. He works hard. Has a family, a faithful wife, a house, car, cattle, hogs, etc etc. But....due to Adam's fall.....Fred has a massive heart attack and leaves behind a grieving wife and family. Fred did NOT know God. He had not really gone out of his way to find out about God. He would sometimes see the TV preachers up there trying to coax 50 bux (all credit cards accepted) for a CD sermon series on "How to Prosper....God's way." by John Anvanzini....or Mike Murdock. (take your pick). The point is.....Adam's life effected Fred's life. and Fred never new ONE THING about Adam, or even the creation story. Sadly, he didn't follow the promptings of the Spirit when he sat, spellbouind, on a starry night, asking himself: "how did all of this come to be." Never-the-less, Fred passes on. Although he didn't BELIEVE in Adam.....he was STILL effected by the fall of Adam.
Now.....enter Jesus Christ (and with all respect due to the King of kings) as the Last Adam. Fred never "gave his heart" or "accepted" Jesus Christ as his "Lord and Savior" (to use the current church-talk). Now......although Fred didn't believe in EITHER of the ADAM's, the first...or the Last,......Fred's life was only effected by the first Adam. Accept for those brief times (like on the night he sat under the stars, relaxing with his wife, and pondering about how it all came to be) that could possibly be Spirit-promptings, the Last Adam didn't have much effect on Fred's life. Fred died without personally knowing much of anything about a Book that bored him when he heard it read. And Fred died without knowing the Author of that Book....the Bible. It would seem that the First Adam had a stronger claim on Fred's life than did the Last Adam!!!!!
Let me change gears: Back up to when Fred was 24 years old, and still not married. He heard a preacher preach about sin. The preacher even had the same "struggles" as Fred had. Somehow Fred realized and was able to believe that what the Preacher was preaching was the answer to the very questions that he had been asking. Fred went home after the revival. Fred was consumed with thoughts about: Is there REALLY a God???? If so, will HE REALLY help me???? Does God REALLY love me??? Fred falls to his knees and cries out: "Oh God...if you are even real....I SO want to believe in You and I want my life to be effected by You....for I recognize now, that the Words in the Bible are true, and since they are true, they carry major implications. God, if You want me......here I am......perverted thoughts and all. God was waiting. And God intervened in Fred's life. Fast forward many years. Fred is on his death bed with wife holding his weak hand, that had once been strong and veiny. Fred had a smile on his face. Peace was written all over his face as he prepared to finally get to meet the One...The Last Adam.....to whom Fred had put all of his trust for redemption, salvation, propitiation. Fred knew that, if it wern't for Jesus, there would be no reason to pray....for Jesus was the One who reconciled all men unto God. The Last Adam......HAD effected Fred's life.
In summary: The first Adam effects our life, whether we want him to or whether we don't want him to. BUT, the Last Adam will only effect our life......if we WANT HIM to.....and then.....by faith....which is not even our own.....for to EVERY man is given....a measure of faith. The End (why I just went off on that tangent...I will never know!!!! I was working in the garden.....a thundercloud came up...I came inside....and sat down to read the latest post. I appreciate everyone's replies!!)

That was an enjoyable read Kevin

However, while I was reading it my mind immediately recalled the verse in Scripture which says; "they are without excuse" Rom 1:20

Then I began thinking about someone with even less excuse. Lucifer (the Devil) who once was in the very presence of God himself and yet he was cast out of heaven along with a third of the heavenly beings that joined him in the rebellion.

[Kevin Blankenship]

I appreciate that Kenny!!! This forum teaches me this (and a whole lot more): that I NEED the perspectives from all of you redeemed children of our Heavenly Father!!!! I have gotten to the point, on this forum, where I can "confess my fault one to another, that ye may be healed...", and I can also express my thanks to Jesus Christ for being so wonderfully obedient to the Father's will.....even when he sweated drops as blood. And since he became obedient unto death, we now have access to the Throneroom without need for an earthly priest's services. We can just head there ourselves, and with EVERY confidence that we will not be turned away. I am SO AWESOMELY GLAD in my heart.....that I have an ever growing (daily, even) sense that God REALLY does love me!!! If I was to say "God does not love us" I would be a liar. Because God's Word SAYS........"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."....WOW!!!!!! What a WORD from Heaven to earth for the children of Adam to sink their teeth into. The children of Adam have only one thing (at very first) that is necessary before they can become children of God, Holy, and dearly loved: and THAT is to believe that the Bible IS INDEED the truth. From Genesis.....to Revelation.....and all points in between. Ya know, if we can only get our unredeemed loved ones to accept the Bible as God's Word.....the Bible will do a pretty good job of evangelizing them!!!! I mean....once you realize that the Bible is TRUTH......and then start reading it and absorbing it.....while the Holy Spirit illuminates it......and convicts their heart.....we are very close to having yet another soul added to the Church......thus fufilling at least one aspect of God's Will. "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." AMEN and AMEN!!!!! I feel a good prayertime about to explode before bedtime. But I am stuck with a minor dilemma: should I read a few passages and THEN pray....or should I pray...and THEN read a chapter, maybe two. I think I got my answer: Pray a bit BEFORE reading....and then pray some more AFTER I read. "Oh God....I pray that You Will....and my will.....will be one will!!! In Jesus name I pray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Amen" Now, let's go plunge into the rest of Ephesians, praying that God will open my deepest parts up to His truth and let it germinate, and grow, and produce fruit. Good, wholesome, nourishing,.....fruit!!!!! Thank you brothers and Sisters for your kind replies and for being longsuffering with me and my mixed up mentality at times. This is a safe haven for the likes of me. And hopefully, for you too. I apologize for not being too helpful and replying to other peoples posts. Tomorrow (Friday morning) during devotions, I will correct that....as it needs correcting. Y'all are precious to me....but I am slow to show it. But right now....I am feeling it. And it feels good. Good night all, and have a blessed night. And if Christ carries us up tonite, I hope to pass you, or be passed by you, on the way to our mansions. We'll be able to talk face to face then.

[chipped china]

I've been studying a paper that Paul Bunyan wrote. (of Pilgrim's Progress) It's a little difficult to read because it's in old English but it's so enlightening that I'm just in awe. It's well worth the long read because it stirs the Holy Spirit up in my heart and soul. It's a discourse on the what and why's of being saved by grace holding back no pleasantries or developed Christian nuances of conduct. Bunyan's uses scripture to say what it means and mean what it says. Refreshing and cleansing

http://www.biblebb.c...avedbygrace.htm

How precious also are Your thoughts of me, O God! How great is the sum of them! If I should count them they would be more in number than the grains of the sand...(Psalm 139:17,18) Hallelujah!!!!

[Candice]

Hi Kevin,
I know you really know the theological answer. I guess it is like a virus that we get. You don't see it, but it is there even if you don't have symptoms that seem obvious. Some people are "good" and seem like Christians (often better - I think of LDS members) but they still have the virus!

[Kevin Blankenship]

I was reading my Bible the other day and the phrase "The last Adam" kept coming into my head" To summarize, and to be perfectly candid, I just could NOT see many similarities between Christ and Adam (the first). I mean, we inherited the first Adam's sin nature....whether we believe in the first Adam or not.
But why don't we receive the Second Adam's godly nature in the same way???? Whether we want to or not???
The first Adam's life effected every one. The second Adam's life effcts only those with Faith in the second Adam.
(Now, back to my first sentence in this post....I must be mis-taking something.

[Charles Miles]

Kevin, I have been following this thread with interest and with prayer. I think the answer to your question is this: The first Adam made a choice to commit treason and break fellowship with God....we must make a choice to repent and accept Christ(second Adam) as propituation for our sin. Both instances involve a free will choice to accept or reject God and our relationship with Him. Jesus showed us how we are supposed to live this life in relationship with the Father, as opposed to Adam, who made the choice not to do so.
Might I recomend a book.."The Father and His Family". You have probably read it, but I occasionally re-read portions of it just for peace. It does give a great take on God`s family and who we are. We always need to know who we are in relation to the Father.

Yours in Christ,

Charlie

[Lori Smith]

Don't forget that Paul was using the term as a metaphor rather than literal fact. Jesus wasn't always a man; instead, He took on flesh to rescue the world from sin. Jesus was actually God, and we aren't born children of God in the natural sense. Jesus was naturally God, but chose to take on flesh. Similarly, we are born naturally of flesh, but we choose the divine nature when we choose to be born from above.

[Kenny]

But why don't we receive the Second Adam's godly nature in the same way???? Whether we want to or not???

Wouldn't that make God a puppet master?

[Kevin Blankenship]

I agree. Yes it would make God a puppet master.
I don't know of any other way of raising my concerns to ya'll. The First Adam and the Second Adam are mentioned in Scripture,
I am just stating what I see. Not from a full Calvinist point of view or otherwise. I am simply trying to link the two in my mind: Adam....then Jesus. First Man......then Last Man. I inherited the consequences of the First one's sin. I will inherit NOTHING from Christ unless I believe on Him. I didn't have to "believe on Adam" to have his nature passed down to me. I got it whether I wanted it or not. (THAT sounds robotic). But with the very UNSIMILAR Last Adam, I have to (or get to) "believe on Him" before His nature, the Divine nature...(Peter said that we were all [believers only, I assume] partakers of the Divine nature) would be (could be) given us.
The First Adam's life impacted my life, whether I wanted it or not. The Last Adam's life impacts me only if I want it, (and THEN, I must be drawn by the Father). There-in lies the crux of my problem.

[Lori Smith]

Adam and Eve had babies. The babies inherited traits from their parents. Jesus did not have earthly children. He did not get married and have babies because He is God. That is why earthly traits are passed from Adam directly and not Jesus. We partake of Jesus' attributes through purely spiritual means, by practicing a spiritual act called prayer.