15 replies to this topic

[Candice]

Looking for community commentary on these verses (especially verse 4) which I've been led by the LORD to meditate on in bible reading time for the past three days....

Hebrews 6



Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
² Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
³ And this will we do, if God permit.
⁴ For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
⁵ And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
⁶ If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
⁷ For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
⁸ But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

[Kenny]

Looking for community commentary on these verses (especially verse 4) which I've been led by the LORD to meditate on in bible reading time for the past three days....

Hebrews 6



Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
² Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
³ And this will we do, if God permit.
⁴ For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
⁵ And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
⁶ If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
⁷ For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
⁸ But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Hi Candice - below I have posted a more literal word for word rendition of those same verses from the NASB for you.

^6:1Wherefore leaving the doctrine of the first principles of Christ, let us press on unto perfection; not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
^6:2of the teaching of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
^6:3And this will we do, if God permit.
^6:4For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
^6:5and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
^6:6and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
^6:7For the land which hath drunk the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them for whose sake it is also tilled, receiveth blessing from God:
^6:8but if it beareth thorns and thistles, it is rejected and nigh unto a curse; whose end is to be burned.
^6:9But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak:

You can find comments in this forum on those verses at the following link - http://ecommunity.cm...-her-salvation/

[Pastor Robert Young]

Greetings Candice in the name of the Lord. The book of Hebrews was writen to the Jewish community at large to show to them that Jesus the Christ was "Better". He was better than Moses, better than the law.. and here better than the scarificial sytem which had the Jews making many sacrifices for sin. there was a trespass offering, and sin offering, the atonment offering. The writter of Hebrews wanted the Jews to know that only one offering was necessary for sin and once cleansed, should you sin again, there was no need to go back and sacrifice for that sin because Christs sacrifice was sufficiant. As we see in Hebrews 10 where he deals with the subject again.
Animal Sacrifices Insufficient
Justified by Faith in Christ’s Sacrifice
1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
Christ’s Death Fulfills God’s Will
(cf. Ps. 40:6–8?)
5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
?
??“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
??But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 ??In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
??You had no pleasure.
7 ??Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
??In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
??To do Your will, O God.’?”
?
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Christ’s Death Perfects the Sanctified
11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

[Pastor Robert Young]

Now then there are those who would attempt to build a theology of the truly saved becoming unsaved based on these passages, But in light of the preponderance of scripture to the contrary I would disagree and understand this from my previous post point of view.

[Charles Miles]

Candice, Pastor Young has it pegged again. The writer was speaking to Jewish converts to Christianity who were under persecution by the mainline Jewish community, so they were very tempted to gradually slip back to doing the temple rituals and sacrifices so as to stay "beneath the radar" so to speak. The writer(IMHO I think it was Paul) was explaining that what the Christians had now was so much better than the old way of the law and that they needed to stay the course with Christ. The book of Hebrews is, to me at least, a book of Christology. It explains so well who Christ is, what He did, why He did it, and what Christ`s sacrifice did for all of us. It also explains that our justification purchased by Christ cannot be lost, once accepted, but it also states that to stay the course produces rewards(inheritance or rest)....and these can be lost. I will admit that Hebrews 6 was a stumbling block for me for a while also, but that chapter must be read in context with the whole book of Hebrews. Taking it out and reading it alone may cause misunderstanding(or it did in my case) for a while. The book is facinating in that it uses old testiment history(Exodus) to compare with what these Jewish converts to Christianity are having to face and why they need to press on in their faith. Their ancestors did not and wandered for 40 years, so that a whole generation did not inherit the land God promised to His people. They were still His people, but they(everyone over 20) lost the inheritance they could have had.

My prayer is that you press on Candice,

Charlie

[Lori Smith]

Pastor Young,

That is the best teaching on Hebrews that I have ever read! Thanks Candice for starting the topic.

Shalom,
Lori

[Candice]

I see this a bit more clearly. I suspected this was really about the Jews since it's in the Book of Hebrews. Yes, this book is spectacular. It is really great when you read a book over and over again and it is still alive and the Lord shows so much more when you meditate on the verses that stand out, and then gain further clarification. Thanks all. Blessings too.

[Kenny]

I see this a bit more clearly. I suspected this was really about the Jews since it's in the Book of Hebrews. Yes, this book is spectacular. It is really great when you read a book over and over again and it is still alive and the Lord shows so much more when you meditate on the verses that stand out, and then gain further clarification. Thanks all. Blessings too.

Hello Candice

To be more exact, Hebrews was written to Messianic Jews (Jewish Christians). Brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus.

Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers (fellow sharers) of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, even Jesus - Heb 3:1

Grace and peace

[Diana Poling]

Candice,

Happened to see your post. Last year in Bible Quizzing we went through Hebrews. Great stuff there. At that time, I listened to many of Tozer's sermons on Hebrews in the audio files. He has one sermon specifically on Hebrew 6:1-9 called "All Kinds of Twisting and Turning." I can post the link to the list of topics of audio files, but it won't let me do specific sermons. Just click on this, then click on Hebrews, and find the one i mentioned. You can listen to it online or download it. Hope it helps. http://www.cmallianc...-audio-sermons/

Love in Christ,

Diana Poling

[Candice]

Candice,

Happened to see your post. Last year in Bible Quizzing we went through Hebrews. Great stuff there. At that time, I listened to many of Tozer's sermons on Hebrews in the audio files. He has one sermon specifically on Hebrew 6:1-9 called "All Kinds of Twisting and Turning." I can post the link to the list of topics of audio files, but it won't let me do specific sermons. Just click on this, then click on Hebrews, and find the one i mentioned. You can listen to it online or download it. Hope it helps. http://www.cmallianc...-audio-sermons/

Love in Christ,

Diana Poling

Thank you Diana for the link to Tozer's sermon! I will listen.

[Charles Miles]

Can I ask a question here for clarification? If we break down the word "salvation" as it applies here, aren`t we discussing justification in this passage? Justification, sanctification, and golrification would and could be combined into the word "salvation", but one has been done for us, one is in process, with the latter one being for the future.
When the hebrews were freed from Egypt, they were saved from slavery and even though they did not get to enter the promised land(well, anyone over 20 y/o), they were not returned to slavery. They just didn`t inherit God`s promise for them as they could have if they had believed God and His promise. In fact, God swore an oath that they would not enter into His "rest" becuase of their lack of faith. They didn`t lose their salvation but did lose the promised land inheritance that they could have had.
Maybe that is what the writer of Hebrews is trying to tell these Jews about. I will not offer this as an iron clad interpretation of Hebrews 6, but just a suggestion of a possibility by one christian who earnestly does seek to know.

In Christ,

Charlie

[Kenny]

Can I ask a question here for clarification? If we break down the word "salvation" as it applies here, aren`t we discussing justification in this passage? Justification, sanctification, and golrification would and could be combined into the word "salvation", but one has been done for us, one is in process, with the latter one being for the future.
When the hebrews were freed from Egypt, they were saved from slavery and even though they did not get to enter the promised land(well, anyone over 20 y/o), they were not returned to slavery. They just didn`t inherit God`s promise for them as they could have if they had believed God and His promise. In fact, God swore an oath that they would not enter into His "rest" becuase of their lack of faith. They didn`t lose their salvation but did lose the promised land inheritance that they could have had.
Maybe that is what the writer of Hebrews is trying to tell these Jews about. I will not offer this as an iron clad interpretation of Hebrews 6, but just a suggestion of a possibility by one christian who earnestly does seek to know.

In Christ,

Charlie

Hello Charles - I personally believe what I am about to post relates to this topic.

God's word clearly describes the life of faith as a life that must be lived. Faith (pistis) is a verb. We are to "run the race of faith" (1 Cor. 9:24-27; Heb. 12:1) “hold fast your profession” (Heb 4:14), "compete for the prize" (1 Cor 9:27), "fight the good fight of faith” (1 Tim 6:12) "contend earnestly for the faith" (Jude 1:3), "be diligent unto the end" (Heb 6:11), "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling" (Phi 2:12), “keep yourselves pure” (1 Tim 5:22), “exercise thyself unto godliness” (1 Tim 4:7), “examine yourselves” 2 Cor. 13:5, “keep yourselves in the love of God” (Jude 1:21), “keep the faith” (2 Tim 4:7), “remain in Him” (John 15:6), Paul urged believers to continue in the grace of God.(Acts 13:43), and to continue in the faith (Acts 14:22). These words and like phrases in scripture all denote surrender and yielding on the believers part.

And these verses too

Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them that fell, severity; but toward thee, God's goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. (Rom 11:22)

yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and without blemish and unreproveable before him: if so be that ye continue in the faith, (Col 1:22-23)

Take heed, brethren (believers), lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God: but exhort one another day by day, so long as it is called To-day; lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin: for we are become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end

Many other verses too numerous for a single post

Grace and Peace

[Pastor Robert Young]

Greetings in the name of the Lord
Charles; Salvation would not in be broken down in those terms.. however, Sanctification would be. the aspect of holiness and being set apart unto God's use is understood from 4 levels. Level 1 is Our Position in Christ, this is our salvation which would be broken down as justification, regeneration,and indwelling. Level 2 is Our Practical Pursuit of life in Christ. This would be the principle of walking in the Spirit which Paul talks about. Level 3 would be that Crisis moment where I battle with my self till I completely surrender my life to Christ(This is a distinctively Alliance theology) and if you like alliteration I say it this way. My Pugilism within Christ. Level 4 is Our Perfection in Christ or the glorification. The first section of hebrews 6 addresses the issue of the Cross of Christ Verses the sacrificial system showing that the blood of the one sacrifice was and is sufficient for forgiveness and salvation and to seek another sacrifice for sin puts the Cross to shame. However by the time we get to verse 9 and following we see that more was expected for them and from there on all that you supposed would be properly applied.

[Charles Miles]

Pastor Young,
I dearly enjoy reading Hebrews because all of the Christology is laid out for us. Some of it is wide open for differing opinions though, especially as chapter 6 is concerned. I actually think, after much prayer and study, that the verses 1-9 in Hebrews 6 relate to an oath God took when the jews balked at Kadish Barnea(sp) and wouldn`t trust Him to deliver the land to them. This couldn`t have been more than 2-3 weeks after leaving Egypt, where they saw several miracles unfold for them there and also on the journey to the place where they balked. The Jews saw great miracles of God and we also have seen God`s miracles unfold both in history and in our own lives. We are told that once we have seen these things, more will be expected of and from us by God. He really doesn`t need anything we have, but He does expect our trust and faithfulness. I think these verses explain God`s feelings about that.

I am interested in that you consider sanctification to include justification? I have always thought that justification was a gift and was immediate when accepting Jesus as Lord of our lives and our savior. Sactification has always meant the lifelong journey of renewing of the mind and making one Holy before God, and this process would not be finished until the last day. Are not justification and righteousness the same? Oh well, back to the Book and a bit of reading for me. That`s one reason I enjoy this forum, it encourages me to study and read the Word to refresh or reprove what I understand.

In Christ`s Love,

Charlie Oh yes, I may visit your church on May 12 after a medical meeting down the beach.

[Pastor Robert Young]

Justification is applied to the believer in the court room of God's Justice where before a Holy God the sinner is found not guilty and pardoned from his punishment based on the advocate (Jesus) who states I paid for the sin. The position of applied righteousness is what is given to the believer so that God sees only the perfect righteousness of Christ. both are gifts given at salvation. 1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. Phl 3:9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which [is] from the law, but that which [is] through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith. In essence then I am given a position of holiness via the righteousness of Christ. So Justification contains the pronouncement and Sanctification at level 1 contains my position. I am still a sinner saved by grace and i still sin hence 1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. My day to day rubber meets the road life is my walk with God empowered by the indwelling Holy Spirit. That is the core of Sanctification as it apples to my life.

[Candice]

Keep meditating on v 4,5 and really wonder why this statement (which reads emphatically IMHO) does not apply to non-Jews as well? What is the grounds (scripture) that firmly implicates its exclusiveness?