12 replies to this topic

[childofrevival]

This week's Tozer devotionals have emphasized a position which I also hold. ie; When a man is filled with the Spirit, he knows it. I once preached this from my (Alliance) pulpit After the service, a dear senior brother, formerly an Alliance missionary of many years, came to see me with the comment, "Pastor, I am grieved in my spirit - you cannot say that." I then took Tozer's book, When He is Come, from my shelf, already open to the page where he had written the same thing, even having the words "he knows it" in bold letters in that edition. When my friend saw that written, his response was "Well, Tozer wasn't 'Alliance'!! I was shocked - and saddened. Have we drifted so far from the doctrinal emphases given by Simpson and Tozer regarding the Holy Spirit, that they would no longer be welcome in an Alliance church?

[Candice]

Pastor Gareth, I love Tozer. I believe you may be right on this. However, one thing is (even Tozer said it) was "show me in the book [the bible]." I don't know that I KNOW THAT I'M FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT at all, but I KNOW I AM SAVED. Please show me chapter/verses about knowing you're filled.

[Kenny]

When a man is filled with the Spirit, he knows it.

Sir, I totally agree with that. I also believe that all born again believers in Christ Jesus are indwelled by the Holy Spirit; however, not all believers are "filled" with the Spirit. Still God commands all believers to be filled with the Spirit Eph 5:18, which would naturally imply that they would also know when they are filled. We wouldn't be commanded to be filled with the Spirit unless we could know when we are filled. So the next question would be, how can we be filled and how can we know when we are filled? There needs to be some sort of evidence.

[childofrevival]

To Candice I would reply: The book was When He is Come. I do not have a personal copy now as many of my books have been passed on to others. Therefore I cannot presently quote chapter and page. However, it is still available on Amazon. Monday's devotional by Tozer also speaks of the same 'knowing'.
The disciples knew in Acts 2; Samaritan believers knew in Acts 8:17; Paul knew in Acts 9:17; Cornelius knew in Acts 10:44; the Ephesians believers knew in Acts 19:6. In Paul's letter to the Ephesians he wrote that we may be able to comprehend (know) ... Eph 3:16-19 - a wonderful prayer.

To Kenny: The (initial) infilling of the Spirit is a sovereign work of God and cannot be manipulated by man. However, we can prepare ourselves to be so filled. eg; The early disciples 'tarried' ( waited in prayer) until endued with power. We are to (continuously) ask, seek and knock until 'your heavenly father gives the Holy Spirit' (Luke 7:13). We must seek to be obedient to all the Lord asks of us (Acts 5:32). I would also suggest that to 'keep on being filled' (Eph 5:15), we should seek to fulfill the next three verses, evidences of a Spirit-filled life: a worshipping attitude (v19), a thankful attitude (v20) and a submitted attitude (honouring others) (v21). Maybe these are also pre-requisites to being filled. I know that, in my case, I was in deep personal worship when He invaded my life (4 years after my 'radical' new birth). Of course, one cannot base his theology on his experience but also, one cannot afford to lower the Scriptures to his (lack of) experience.
Might I also suggest the following 'evidences' as expressed by McCrossan in his excellent book Christ's Paralysed Church X-rayed: The Spirit of God will manifest Himself by making Christ real to you - as real as your own loved ones; You will worship the Lord as never before; He will give you new understanding of His Word and a real love for the lost; He will give you a spirit of prayer such that you will love the times you spend with the Lord; He will impart to you in much greater measure, the fruit of the Spirit.
I believe it was also Tozer who wrote 'If men were as eager to receive the fulness of the Holy Spirit as they are to deny one can be so filled, the church would be a radically different place'.

[Charles Miles]

I do believe that pastor Garth is correct. When filled with Holy Spirit, the person knows it, and there is no doubt! Where is it in the Bible/ Well, let`s see...When Peter went to the home of Cornelius and preached to the group there, they became filled with the Holy Spirit, although they were already believers in "the Way". Also those converts that had only been baptised knowing only the message of John the Baptist were told the gospel containing the works and purpose of Jesus, and they too were re-baptised into the Spirit.

Where is the evidence? The evidence of a Spirit filled Christian is in his/her heart. Jesus said that if one would believe and follow Him, He and the Father would come to live within their heart. I don`t really understand the question about where is the evidence. Where is the evidence that I am a born again child of God who has my name written in the Lamb`s Book of Life? Well, how about this as evidence.....I know that it is there and have assurances from the God of the universe that it is there. I know that I know that I know, and there is absolutely no doubt within my soul. Other than the assurance of an eternal, omnipotent, immuntable, Loving God, that lives within my heart, I don`t have or need any evidence. I look the same but maybe I do act differently. I try to love more and live as the Lord would have me live, but I haven`t been sent the paper contract yet! I guess I`ll just trust the Lord to keep His word.....about everything.

[ADVRider]

Of course, one cannot base his theology on his experience but also, one cannot afford to lower the Scriptures to his (lack of) experience.

Very good point. This same thing occurred to me one day when referring to some friends who were cessationists. I know we have to be careful with experience and doctrine, but not everything Jesus did is recorded in the Bible. For example, if the time he spit in the mud and rubbed it in the man's eye were not recorded in Scripture and some Christian did that today, we would be incredulous! Just an example. So yes, lack of experience is no proof either against the things of the Spirit.

[Candice]

If you are led by the Spirit (then you have the Holy Spirit)...you will have the fruit of the Spirit (evidence)..."love, joy peace, patience (longsuffering), kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23 Also, "Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another". Gal. 5:26 You can quench God's Spirit, etc. But, if we consecrate ourselves to the LORD in surrender, we walk in His Spirit. This is a state that wrangles with the soul, thereby the Spirit stays put, but our soul swings all around. If we consecrate ourselves, we are less run by our soul (emotions, natural disposition, etc.) My opinion only.

[chipped china]

When I first became a believer in the mid 80's there were a few times when I was sad that I felt held in the arms of Christ. I knew it was supernatural and I considered these moments grace and mercy to encourage me. As the years went on and I grew slowly in my walk I knew He was with me but I can't say I was alive and on fire for the Lord until I met someone who was totally committed to Christ. I know I've told some of you this before but it's true: I fell in love with Christ in him. He showed me the "Person" and I experienced His unconditional love, His Holiness in me. There were times my whole being was lit with the Lords presence. It still happens occasionally usually when I'm given a revelation, worshiping with deep thankfulness and sometimes when I'm with other believers, when we are of one mind. That person, who some think is crazy graced my life for a season but the gift from God is still very much alive in me. My desire to know Him better and to show others His perfect love is with me everyday. I can't explain it, to the world I'm nothing special but to Jesus He knows the number of hairs on my head, I live for Him. Learning about God is no longer a chore but an obsession and I pray that the scent of Christ permeates from me to others.

[Kenny]

I grew slowly in my walk I knew He was with me but I can't say I was alive and on fire for the Lord until I met someone who was totally committed to Christ.

Reminds me of the term, Contagious Christianity

[Jay Turner]

I grew slowly in my walk I knew He was with me but I can't say I was alive and on fire for the Lord until I met someone who was totally committed to Christ.

So much of the walk of a believer is that which you have to see and experience it first hand. Many times you may have a cursory understanding, but until you can see someone living it out or are put into a position where you have to experience it yourself, the real truth will remain elusive. That is one reason why community is so important. It gives people the chance to experience God working through others and taking part in their struggles. It can happen to a degree during the few hours spent at church, but I believe the real effect is seen when that community extends into everyday life. It is when we work and play together that people tend to open up to each other. The bible tells us not to forsake fellowship with other believers. When you put it into the context of the early church, these were people who lived, worked, ate, slept, played, fought, and even died together. Pretty well every aspect of their lives was done in community.

[Pastor Robert Young]

"When a person is filled with the Spirit he knows it" ... This concept was in the Towzer devotionals during the month of March and after he quoted that he spent the next 3 days in his devotional excerpts discussing that and explaining it further.. you might want to check here on this site for that... But what about that concept, because when we say we know something there is more than just a feeling or mental ascension, and even more than acknowledgment. Most everyone has heard or even said “yadda,yadda,yadda” attempting to say you know what I mean said it before etc; but few know that yadda is the Hebrew word for “to know intimately” To have an intimate knowledge of something or someone is to experience life with that someone or something; and I feel that that is what Towzer had in mind. When we are filled with the Spirit we have an intimate knowledge of the Spirit because we experience life with Him indwelling us. Paul says.. “ If we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh”…So my knowing that I am filled reveals itself in my day to day walk with Jesus. If I am being like Christ and my walk shows the evidence of my yielding to the Spirit instead of the flesh then I “know” I am filled. If I yield to the flesh and temptation has my eye, then I am not filled with the Spirit, and I ought to “know” that also. Jesus said..”My Father will send the Holy spirit in my name so He can remind you of all the things I have taught you” … “knowing” you are filled with the Spirit is revealed by the path I walk each day and builds an intimate knowledge of God through His son Jesus, made possible by the filling of the Spirit. Many people think that things like evidence and experience needs to be some immediate dramatic event and while I am not discounting the dramatic events, I do not think that is what Towzer had in mind.

[chipped china]

I agree with you Pastor Young, the more we understand the Scriptures, who God is and even the whole history of the Bible the more we love and cherish what He gave us. We want to die daily to Him so we see the evidence of the Spirit and His fruits. We come out of the world more and more. Things we use to tolerate seem disrespectful and dirty.
I don't think it's necessary to have an experience to know you are filled with the Spirit. I knew the Spirit lived in me before that time, I had moments of peace and revelation that helped steady me. But once you experience the sweet unconditional love of Jesus in your whole being it changes you and you know it's supernatural, not of yourself. I pray that what I was given can flow through me to others because I see believers struggle with their desire to read the Word and know Him deeper. And if I can be like Mother Teresa said, a pencil in God's Hand, I'll feel blessed.

[Lori Smith]

Well said Pastor Young. I love how the Old Testament reveals this intimacy (Yada) God desires. When I was born again, I was always reaching up to God, wanting to know Him more. After I received the Baptism in the Holy Spirit it became possible. Indeed, then I could feel His tangible presence and could know Him more each day. Then the process of abiding became like entwining my heart with God's. As human beings we hold hands. With God, we hold hearts. He is so very sweet and good. That's why keeping the world out of our minds and hearts is so important.