15 replies to this topic

[Candice]

When is casting to stop? How do you know when you're casting pearls before swine?

[Jay Turner]

Casting pearls before swine basically means sharing truth with someone that they are either not willing or able to accept. The object is to share in such a way as to keep them open so they don't shut down. Once they shut down, they will not see any value in what you say. It takes a level of discernment to see where that point is. There are times where what is needed is to be blunt and to the point. Sometimes a good slap in the face is the only way to get their attention. Other times, you need need to meet them where they are and share it in terms that they can accept. Sometimes you just have to be a little less "christian". If they are not ready to talk about God and faith and scripture and the likes, then find other ways to communicate the truth that you are trying to share. Take little steps, while giving them time to acclimate. By building them up and sharing little by little, it becomes more of a learning process instead of an all or nothing thing. And as always, let God be the one to open the doors. Share what you feel you are led to share and not out of a sense of obligation. When we do things out of obligation, we take the responsibility upon ourselves. But ultimately, the Holy Spirit is the one to bring the pieces together. We just plow the soil and plant the seeds where and when we are directed. God will take care of the rest.

When do we stop? Just remember that sometimes we are the ones with the pearls and sometimes we are the swine...

[Julie Daube]

I think Jay is right on the mark when he talks about the need for discernment in this. The verse about shaking the dust off our feet also applies: "If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town" (Matt. 10:14). If it becomes obvious that the person with whom you are sharing the truth is not listening or doesn't even want to listen, you are probably casting your pearls before swine if you continue. But it's wise to pray and ask for discernment if you aren't sure. Sometimes when you get to the point that you are ready to shake the dust, it's a good idea to make one final appeal/warning and then be done with that person (this would be the time to be blunt and to the point, as Jay said in his comment). My husband and I live in an apartment complex where we have reached out to a lot of shady people (ex cons, drug dealers, people who have done time for manslaughter, etc.). There have been times when the people to whom we were ministering viciously turned on us. At that point, we knew had to shake the dust off our feet, because they had become enemies of the gospel by attacking God's messengers. I think when it is clear that the person with whom you are sharing is attacking the messenger (they become hostile,belligerent, etc.), it is definitely time to stop casting those pearls.

[Kevin Blankenship]

But it would behoove someone to be REAL careful is calling God's peope swine. Whether they listen to you or not. Not ever believer (Child of God) is at the same level. Some of US....meaning me....are very busy or very absent minded, or not as near as considerate as we should be. Does that make me a swine??? Careful!!!!! Judge not. And there's no need to for any of you fruit pickers out there to come rushing up and pointing at me and saying "we can't judge...BUT WE ARE FRUIT INSPECTORS!!!".....Well (this is NOT towards you Candace, but to the Fruit inspectors) there is enough wickedness in this country to keep you busy all day and all night. Hopefull you fruit inspectors are praying for the people whom you have decided are not good fruit. Becasue every single person, is a person for whom Christ died. (yeah, I don't buy into that balogney about a Partial atonement, and neither did AW Tozer, and he said as much, so I SHOULD be among friends here at a CMA forum)
Going to a worlding and bearing my heart to them......that is my interpretation of that verse. Not making some posts on a Christian forum and not getting any/amny replies. JMHO.....and I stand by it.

[Julie Daube]

Hi Kevin. I'm a little confused. Were you referring to me when you talked about fruit inspectors? If so, I must have given the wrong impression with my post. It was not my intention to say that we as believers are supposed to inspect the fruit of other Christians or that my brothers and sisters in Christ are swine. I was referring to lost people to whom my husband and I have selflessly ministered (often putting ourselves at great risk and peril), who viciously attacked us without any provokation. In one case, this happened after we had given them food from our pantry as well as several hundred dollars to help with their financial needs and also bailed them out of jail. For our own protection and the sake of God's truth, we had to sever our relationship with them. We could not continue to enable them to live in sin by rescuing them every time they brought destruction upon themselves and their children through their poor choices. This is what I meant when I said we had to shake the dust from our feet. When these people turned on us, we realized it was time to stop casting the pearls of God's Word to people who not only rejected His Word but were also attacking the messenger. I am sorry if I offended you; what I said in my post was not directed toward you or to any of my fellow believers.

[Jay Turner]

For many people, a straight forward approach to the gospel isn't the way to go. When you have been hurt by the church, experienced little more than judgment and scorn from Christians, while seeing hypocrisy as the overwhelming standard in their lives, the last thing you are going to want to hear is them preaching to you about is God and salvation. Regrettably, these are the types of experiences and expectations that many non-believers have about Christians. Some of it is probably unfounded, but much of it is founded in fact and first hand experience. This is something that the church and christians have done to themselves, yet when non-believers reject the gospel message that they bring, they are viewed as being hardhearted.

There are those who have truly hardened their hearts and want nothing more than to suck the world dry and exert their power any way they can, but I believe that is the exception and not the norm. If we would take the time to build relationships with non-believers, meet them where they are in their lives, while not judging them or expecting them to change, earning their trust and showing them God's love, in time many of these people would be ready for the gospel message. Part of what is needed is to simply take baby steps. This may mean being a little worldly and doing things that aren't necessarily "christian". Going to a bar and having a drink with a friend. Going to a movie even if it is rated R. The point is to meet people where they are at instead of expecting them to meet you where you are at. By meeting them half way, you can start the process of earning their trust, which is important in any relationship.

When it comes to sharing God's truth, many times it is possible to do it in such a way where it meets them where they are at in their lives. By helping someone to value the role of a parent, for example, it can begin to tear down barriers between them and God, even without bringing God into the context. Even if they are not ready to talk about God, many times they will be ready to talk about and receive Godly wisdom. By taking little steps like this, we can lift people up, breaking down walls and help prepare them for the day where they are ready for the gospel message and the deeper things of God.

[Julie Daube]

The point is to meet people where they are at instead of expecting them to meet you where you are at.

This is so true, Jay, and that is exactly what my husband (Alex) and I have tried to do with our neighbors. Right now, Alex is reaching out to a neighbor who is just so broken that all Alex can do is listen to the cries of his heart and just be there for him (he did have an opportunity to pray with him yesterday, and that was a major breakthrough). This person is nowhere near being ready to hear a full presentation of the gospel or to be challenged to commit his life to Jesus. At this point, all we can do is show him God's love and wait for an opening to share on a deeper level.

Sadly, your description of those who have "truly hardened their hearts and want nothing more than to suck the world dry" describes many of the people we have ministered to over the years. We even met a couple who pretended to be Christians so they could get help from us, and later they stole from us. Even when they moved away, they were calling us at 2 a.m. demanding that we wire them money. It gets very discouraging to continually meet people where they are and try to demonstrate the love of Jesus, only to have them betray us. But I guess Jesus understood what that was like. Despite these negative, often heartbreaking experiences, I haven't stopped praying for those whom God led across our paths, no matter how badly they treated us. And God has given me the grace to forgive.

[Kevin Blankenship]

No Julie.....I went straight from the original post to the post I made. And all of my references to Fruit inspectors was a blanket statment because I have heard it SO much. No one on this site has offended me in any way, form, or fashion. In fact, I have never been "hurt" in any organized church. I usually can warm up to the pastor fairly quickly, and the people also. My beef is that church...the organized man-made institition, is a spectator sport. I was posting fast and just hitting the hi areas. I am sorry that I came across as aiming that at ANYONE on this forum. Indeed....I come here to read what is on fellow Christian's minds. And to share. It seems lately that alot of the post have been about the Sunday morning meeting time (I can almost hear Jake Hess crooning those words now) and the ineffectiveness. Modern statistics now show that people are slipping out the back door of the mega churches and forming small home groups/ Bible studies so that EVERYONE can exercise there gifts.
But it is only coincedental that you would have mentioned anything about fruit inspectors and then I say what I said later. That embarrasses me a little, that I made public my feelings towards modern day church cliches. So please don't think that I would say/do/ or imply anything that would hurt you. If anything hurts me, it is that the modern church instution has failed so miserably at addressing the wholesale immorality of my country.....which was founded on In God we Trust. It is even on our coinage.
And if I have the sound of someone who has been BURNT in a certain church, nothing could be any further than the truth. My dealings with every church I have been a member? of has been cordial, polite, etc etc. I am still good friends with the pastor of my last church. His wife sits with my momma when I need a break.....and I pay her well to do so, but I would have it no other way.
I should think through my posts a bit more than I do so that I won't be mis-taken. That only causes rifts and I don't want that. Especially here on this forum. So...please forgive me for not being more sensitive...and for not reading the replies before I posted. I am not really a hard hearted type guy.

[Julie Daube]

Thanks for clarifying that, Kevin! There is nothing to forgive. I have enjoyed reading your posts and am glad these forums have been a safe place for you to share your feelings. I tend to be over-sensitive, and that sometimes causes me to jump to the wrong conclusion. My bad!

Have a blessed weekend!

[Kevin Blankenship]

Julie, I am just like you in that respect. I am WAY sensitive!!! Really am. The only thing about forums, or talking via the written word, is that one misses the tone of the person's voice. It's like...one dimensional, whereas, if we were in the same room, we'd take things totally different. I need to keep that in mind. Just the fact that you brought that up makes me realize that, when I am cyber-fellowshipping with my brothers and sisters in Christ, that I need to go to extreme lengths in being tactful, and polite, and gentle, and loving. I mean, if we want bashed, or if we want to be around negativity, we can go to wal mart and talk about Jesus and get all we want from people who simply refuse to believe the truth and so be saved. One of my faults, and I don't say this with one iota of pride, is that my self centered attitude still carries over into my walk with Jesus. I felt His chiding influence this morning after making that post. That is why I came back to see what replies it stirred up. Yet stirring up replies was not my intent. But nevertheless, I have learned something today.
The ONLY FAMILY I HAVE GOT........are the people on this Earth who are people of Faith. Faith in Jesus Christ as our soon coming King. That's it. It would behoove ME.....to be more loving and caring in my speech (and writings). Each of you who post here....have been a tremendous help to me. Reading your posts. Your replying to MY posts. All of it. I wouldn't have even known about the Koinonia House if someone here hadn't said: Hey...check that out!!! Good...sound, fundamental, teaching. I have already finished one course ( Final score... and am involved in Old and new testament survey right now. In fact, I need to head over there and reply to a few discussion questions.
There was a time when I opened EVERY morning....with prayer, with Tozer's devotional.....and with fellowshipping with you gals and guys. I won't to keep doing that. We may be seeing each other.....REALLY soon. I personally believe in the imminent return of Christ in the clouds to recieve his Bride. (some may not believe in a pre-trib rapture, but that is JUST fine) We are STILL brothers and sisters. To the very core. Closer kin than our blood siblings. (preaching to myself here)

[Candice]

But it would behoove someone to be REAL careful is calling God's peope swine. Whether they listen to you or not. Not ever believer (Child of God) is at the same level. Some of US....meaning me....are very busy or very absent minded, or not as near as considerate as we should be. Does that make me a swine??? Careful!!!!! Judge not. And there's no need to for any of you fruit pickers out there to come rushing up and pointing at me and saying "we can't judge...BUT WE ARE FRUIT INSPECTORS!!!".....Well (this is NOT towards you Candace, but to the Fruit inspectors) there is enough wickedness in this country to keep you busy all day and all night. Hopefull you fruit inspectors are praying for the people whom you have decided are not good fruit. Becasue every single person, is a person for whom Christ died. (yeah, I don't buy into that balogney about a Partial atonement, and neither did AW Tozer, and he said as much, so I SHOULD be among friends here at a CMA forum)
Going to a worlding and bearing my heart to them......that is my interpretation of that verse. Not making some posts on a Christian forum and not getting any/amny replies. JMHO.....and I stand by it.

Hey Kevin,

I'm sorry if my question prompted confusion. I don't think it is for me to "give up" on anyone who is not a believer and rejects Christ. I will always love my niece and be there for her. I am just not sure when you "leave it'. God will show me. And, by the way, my niece has asked again by emailing and texting me from NYC, reminding me to send some Christian reading which I have. She wants to come back to WYO this summer to visit. She didn't want to leave. So, I guess I must have offered something (probably the FLESH) in addition to the offenses I sensed as she rolled her eyes a few times when discussing "God" things.

Anyway, don't take offense at anyone here. We are all on this journey, have some varying thoughts and interpretations. I believe that everyone here loves the LORD and is offering from their own experiences as they have been drawing from the Source!

[Candice]

For many people, a straight forward approach to the gospel isn't the way to go. When you have been hurt by the church, experienced little more than judgment and scorn from Christians, while seeing hypocrisy as the overwhelming standard in their lives, the last thing you are going to want to hear is them preaching to you about is God and salvation. Regrettably, these are the types of experiences and expectations that many non-believers have about Christians. Some of it is probably unfounded, but much of it is founded in fact and first hand experience. This is something that the church and christians have done to themselves, yet when non-believers reject the gospel message that they bring, they are viewed as being hardhearted.

There are those who have truly hardened their hearts and want nothing more than to suck the world dry and exert their power any way they can, but I believe that is the exception and not the norm. If we would take the time to build relationships with non-believers, meet them where they are in their lives, while not judging them or expecting them to change, earning their trust and showing them God's love, in time many of these people would be ready for the gospel message. Part of what is needed is to simply take baby steps. This may mean being a little worldly and doing things that aren't necessarily "christian". Going to a bar and having a drink with a friend. Going to a movie even if it is rated R. The point is to meet people where they are at instead of expecting them to meet you where you are at. By meeting them half way, you can start the process of earning their trust, which is important in any relationship.

When it comes to sharing God's truth, many times it is possible to do it in such a way where it meets them where they are at in their lives. By helping someone to value the role of a parent, for example, it can begin to tear down barriers between them and God, even without bringing God into the context. Even if they are not ready to talk about God, many times they will be ready to talk about and receive Godly wisdom. By taking little steps like this, we can lift people up, breaking down walls and help prepare them for the day where they are ready for the gospel message and the deeper things of God.

Hey Jay,

I agree with you as I've seen this myself. People are sick of the whole "Christian" iconic stuff. I believe that those who truly are intested are really wanting the real deal. I've never preached at my niece. In fact, I wish, when I had any time with her in the past, that I'd talked with her more about her own world views. We did get a chance to discuss what she believes, which is basically a higher power, this time around. My other niece who is a few years older than her, believed and received Christ on the phone with me. She was suicidal at one point, then I bluntly asked her where she would go if she died!! There was no other nudging from God. That was His idea. That was God's leading. There was a very severe thunderstorm going on all around our place at the time. It was the worst I've ever experienced (while in the house). The phone kept disconnecting, but God came through. After seven years, she is trusing the LORD for everything in her life. She has truly changed and it is apparent she has the Spirit of God. With my younger niece, I've not had opportunity.

When my niece was here visiting, we did lots of things together. We watched "Argo". She and my sister couldn't believe that my husband and I would allow our 15 year-old son watch it since it's rated R. I told her it had great history, value, and offered a teaching opportunity, despite the swearing by Alan Arkin. I laughed everytime Alan Arkin repeated this one really bad one-liner because I simply found it funny. It was bad language. But, I just had to laugh. His character's mannerisms reminded me of my deceased father! My sister had to nod in agreement to that one. My son has heard every word at high school. He knows what that's about. He hears things daily that I never heard in my life!! I had wine available at dinner sometimes and had a glass myself one night. I'm not legalistic in a general sense. Although, sometimes, I default to that out of fear. I can be around the lost because I was once there and worse!

Ok. So enough of that. Thanks for your input. I agree. But, there are those times when being direct is absolutely what God requires. We know it when He won't let go of my heart.

Candice

[Candice]

Sorry everyone. I need to check times of postings here. I'M SO CONFUSED!!

[Kevin Blankenship]

Candace, I woke up this morning on a soap box. Totally unrelated to this forum. But I came over to the forum....feeling.....I don't know...frustrated I guess, at myself more than anyone. I mean, I have been following Chris and have generally been feeling quite well, but for some reason this morning, I "dove into" this thread without half reading it. I really feel compelled to offer an apology to everyone for that. I suppose one could conclude "yeh, his true colors are now showing".....but I would have to politefully disagree. My true colors are likely WORSE. (laughing then sighing) But nonetheless, the thread was started off wonderfully well. I actually took the time to read it. Then I re-read my tangent......and blushed with embarrassment. I can/will do better. It's all good. You all are precious. That's the truth. And deserve to be treated preciously. Now....I'm going to read myself to sleep with my new Kindle E reader. I have Chuck and Nancy Missler's book (The way of Agape), and Watchman Nee's (the Normal Christian Life) and CS Lewis (Mere Christianity) and the latest version of the Holy Bible (The International Standard version) of which is an exceptionally good translation....one of the best to come out since the King of England's scholars got togther. But that's just my opinion. Nighty Nite.

[Candice]

Candace, I woke up this morning on a soap box. Totally unrelated to this forum. But I came over to the forum....feeling.....I don't know...frustrated I guess, at myself more than anyone. I mean, I have been following Chris and have generally been feeling quite well, but for some reason this morning, I "dove into" this thread without half reading it. I really feel compelled to offer an apology to everyone for that. I suppose one could conclude "yeh, his true colors are now showing".....but I would have to politefully disagree. My true colors are likely WORSE. (laughing then sighing) But nonetheless, the thread was started off wonderfully well. I actually took the time to read it. Then I re-read my tangent......and blushed with embarrassment. I can/will do better. It's all good. You all are precious. That's the truth. And deserve to be treated preciously. Now....I'm going to read myself to sleep with my new Kindle E reader. I have Chuck and Nancy Missler's book (The way of Agape), and Watchman Nee's (the Normal Christian Life) and CS Lewis (Mere Christianity) and the latest version of the Holy Bible (The International Standard version) of which is an exceptionally good translation....one of the best to come out since the King of England's scholars got togther. But that's just my opinion. Nighty Nite.

Kevin,
I'm glad you like your new e-reader - a convenience for rapid purchase and delivery!! Also, can carry around a lot of books in the car, etc. Imagine toting them all around. I've read The Normal Christian Life and The Way of Agape. Nancy and Chuck have a great AGAPE WEEKEND from NEW ZEALAND video series you can download from their website and just watch. This is a relaxing alternative to reading. Trying to watch the videos here and there. For me who is writing and reading a lot, this is a nice break. Watchman Nee is difficult for me to follow. Tell me what you think of his book when you'er finished reading it.

Be well.

[Kevin Blankenship]

Watchman Nee, in the Normal Christian Life.......that seems to be a treatise, or an essay , or better yet, a commentary on the first half of the book of Romans. He draws a dividing line between 'sins' and 'sin' . "Sins' being the various and sundry acts of disobedience from which we are forgived by the Blood of Jesus. And "Sin" being the actual indwelling component that causes us to commit "sins".
So far, that is my take on it. This book has been very useful in teaching me about "reckoning ourselves as dead to sin" , since we died with Christ on the cross. Just like when Adam, the first Adam, sinned, and thus brought death and separation from God upon all of mankind, so the Last Adam, who is Christ, brings life. As it becomes clear, I'll try to give a summary. Thus far, I have found it very helpful in explaining some things that I didn't understand. Or at least, giving me another perspective of those things.
Everyone have a great weekend.