21 replies to this topic

[Lori Smith]

One of my favorite books is Enjoying Intimacy with God by J. Oswald Sanders. It’s a simple book packed full of instructions for those who wish to be close to God. Sanders also describes how those who are close to God glorify Him with their lives, for they radiate God in their countenance. He writes, “Some of God’s glory rubbed off on Moses. ‘When Moses was coming down from Mount Sinai ... Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone because of his speaking with Him’ (Exod. 34:29). That is still the divine prescription for radiance” (p. 16).

When we’ve been in God’s presence we too become unaware that we radiate God’s glory, for we have no sense of ourselves only of God. When we get a glimpse of Him, we desire nothing else. Indeed, it is a glorious thing to be in His presence, and He changes everything about us when we spend time there.

[chipped china]

Thank you for another book to read. I just ordered a used one on Amazon for one cent. Almost seem like I'm stealing!

Being close to God is how I survive, He is why I thrive and try. I fall so short but I know His perfect love for us, His forgiveness and mercy. I am humbled. The "world" doesn't see Him, but we as His children are hidden under His wings so we can stand above the anger and pain thrown at us by a world that doesn't know His love. Instead God gives us empathy and understanding so we can be His Light and radiate a little of His Glory. Thank you great I AM.

[Lori Smith]

Wow Betsy, what a great way to put it! I think you have said something so incredibly profound. Indeed, God saturates us with Himself and His goodness; and this counters the bad things we face. He outbalances the bad by His good. Very very good. I love that. Thanks Betsy for the smile you've put into my heart. Hope you enjoy Sanders' book as much as I have. I've read it more times than I can count!

[chipped china]

This subject is hitting home right now and I'm amazed at the understanding and grace He gives me. I learning a new way to respond when me me me is hurt. As you know my little dog got run over Christmas Eve and I was hurting so I reached out to my dog friend who is not a believer. I thought she'd give me comfort. Well, she hasn't responded to me at all. My first response was hurt and anger because she obviously blames me. Ok, I accept the mistake and pay for it with my pain. I must admit I had several things I wanted to say to her, and they were hurtful. So I asked Jesus to help me with this and try to envision His response. He told me that she doesn't know His love and holds animals in higher esteem than people. I've tried to witness to her and she just shuts me down. I'm having trouble with the envision part. It seems He was either edifying someone for their faith or rebuking them. Jesus is not lukewarm and while on earth His mission was to spread the Good News and let us know God as a living sacrifice. So I guess I'm left with pray for your enemies. When Jesus was crucified He said they know not what they do. Our Father gives and He takes away so we will be thankful and build endurance. The race we run is to glorify Him.

[childofrevival]

Wonderful book by J Oswald Sanders! Why is it that so many are afraid of intimacy with God? Wouldn't it be wonderful if our pastors entered the pulpit next week with their "faces shining" because, like Moses, they had met God on the mountain top!! I have seen such and long for more. I remember my landlord when I was in university, coming home after a meeting and sitting silently in his chair by the fire. He spoke not a word for some time so his wife became concerned for him, asking if anything was wrong. After a further long pause, he simply said, "Mary, tonight I saw Jesus!". There was such unction upon the speaker that evening, that my landlord had felt transported into 'the heavenlies'. I believe such unction will only be upon us as we spend time in intimacy with the Saviour.

[Lori Smith]

Betsy,

It's times like this that I mourn the church's loss of the use of spiritual gifts. I think a big reason why the Holy Spirit was poured out upon us was that we might edify one another through gifts the Holy Spirit has provided. I asked God if He might give me a word of comfort for you. A couple of things came to my mind and I hope I convey them properly so they help rather than cause more hurt.

Firstly, I thought of this recent soul snack from Geoff Taylor (one of my favorite inspirational writers from the Land Down Unda) http://www.soulsuppl...s-soul-snack-54 When others misjudge us it can be so painful!

Then I happened upon this passage of Scripture: "What will a man give in exchange for the soul of him?" (Mt 16:26). The key word is exchange. What God pressed upon my heart is that certain things demand a risk. For example, you give your dogs freedom; thus, the risk is danger. But it certainly may be more important that they are always free to romp and roam with you.

There is another risk and that has to do with loss. God gave each human and each animal His divine touch. However, that means that none can replace any person or any animal. It doesn't matter how many dogs you may buy; none can replace the one you've lost. It's the same way with people (and God feels this way about us). The alternative is to make each less special, but that would forfeit the uniqueness of each one.

Thus there is no comfort when we lose a pet or a person. There is simply grief, and the grief we feel is a memorial to their specialness and their uniqueness. We must go through the pain for they held great value. With people, we know we'll see them again--Jesus made sure of that. Will we see our pets again? It's possible, for they have a soul (a unique personality and essence). Billy Graham said that if heaven would be less than heaven without your pet then your pet will be there. Why would God deny us this? I'm sure we'll be satisfied when we get there.

Love and blessings to you my sister. I hope I didn't make you feel worse.

Lori

[Lori Smith]

Pastor Gareth,

That mountaintop is my goal is well. I'm not sure why people are afraid of intimacy with God. I do know that it is often discouraged. I'm not sure why that is either. I do know that men before us (as you mention) have climbed to certain heights and communed with God in ways that made their faces glow. Thus, it is possible for us today. I think perhaps we should dust off such recordings of writings of these experiences, and record a few of our own, that the pursuit of God might continue!

Shalom,
Lori

[Lori Smith]

Another of my favorite writers is Abraham Joshua Heschel. He was a Jewish scholar, and when I read what he's written it's hard for me to understand how he missed seeing Jesus as the Messiah. His writings certainly point to Jesus.

One of my favorite sections of The Prophets concerns Daath Elohim (verb yada) which is "knowledge of God" in Hebrew. God cared more about this than anything else. We see this throughout the Book of Hosea. Listen to how Heschel describes knowing God. He writes, "The verb Yada does not always mean simply to know, to be acquainted with. In most Semitic languages it signifies sexual union as well as spiritual activity" (p. 57).

Heschel is describing how God desires extreme intimacy with us. There is a joining and communing of spirit between God and ourselves. He wants us to know Him for Who He is. The Israelites made the mistake of thinking that God instituted rituals that they might please Him with their actions. However, these sacrifices were meant to purify them that they might draw near to God. Jesus fulfilled this ultimately in such a way that He has made a way for God to indwell us. We cultivate this when we seek to develop this relationship with God through time we spend getting to "know" Him. We come to "know" Him by seeking Him, studying Him, and receiving understanding from Him. This is an eternal, never-ending pursuit; for there is no end to what we can discover about Him. He is infinite in His majesty and goodness.

It's also interesting to note that Scripture also uses the same word to describe the sympathy God has for people when they suffer. Heschel writes, "God saw the people of Israel and God knew their condition" (Exod. 2:24-25). What the text means is: and He had pity. In the same story we read: 'Then the LORD said, I have seen the affliction of My people who are in Egypt, and have heard their cry because of their taskmasters; I know their sufferings' (Exod. 3:7). What the text means is 'I have sympathy for, I am affected by their sufferings'" (p. 57).

Isn't it amazing that God desires that we might "know" Him, and that He also "knows" us and is affected by and feels our sufferings? I think so.

[Lori Smith]

This is my favorite topic, so please forgive my rambling on ... I think all we read about God and His desire for intimacy with us, reveals how God cares deeply about freedom--His and our own. For example, He gave Adam and Eve a choice; and then He gave them land to conquer. Walking with God is always an adventure. We see this again as He takes Israel through the wilderness ... will they trust Him? He walks before them in pillars of clouds and fire, and He feeds them no more than they need each day. Again there is always adventure with God!!

He is not a God who seeks to be domesticated; nor does He seek to stifle us. "He is not a tame Lion!" stated C. S. Lewis. Freedom and the wild pursuit of a gentle and ferocious God is an exciting experience. God is never boring! He is wild and fresh; He is gentle and fierce! He draws near to us, then He withdraws that we might chase Him towards our destiny. He is fun, and He is faithful. He will never leave us; and He is never totally captured by us. What an awesome God He is!

[Jay Turner]

Intimacy is not only in the height of the sexual experience, but also in the valleys of everyday life. We yearn and fantasize for the mountaintop experiences, yet we must not forget the closeness of walking hand in hand with him through the valleys, or how during childbirth and traumatic times, He is right there encouraging us and and sustaining us when we have nothing left to give.

[Jay Turner]

The sad truth about intimacy with God is that when He shares of Himself, He does so in abundance. We on the other hand have the attention-span of ADHD children. Instead of asking questions and drawing near, we get sidetracked and find ourselves chasing squirrels. I can think of times, right here on this forum, where God has given me leave to to share a great truth. I will begin to set the stage and lay out the background material required for understanding, but in a time where asking questions and the starting of a dialogues is needed, I am met with silence and rabbit trails.

There is the verse that tells us not to cast pearls before swine. The idea of swine, as we see here, is that for whatever reason they are not able to see the value in what is being placed before them. In times where they should be curious and exploring the potential and beauty in the thing, they simply trample it underfoot, forsaking its true value. God will never take us farther than we are willing or are able to handle. He will take us to our limits, even though He is prepared to show us so much more, then wait until we are ready to continue the journey of discovery. The real question is, how much has God had to withhold of Himself from us, over the millenia, because we were unwilling and not ready to receive it.

[Lori Smith]

Jay,

You make a good point! I remember one conversation I had with God regarding the things men study. I don't remember what triggered the discussion, but it had to do with what men have done with the minerals on the planet. Many things have been harvested and used to create great discoveries.

Then God said this to me: Suppose men had spent the same amount of time and energy seeking to know Him? The things on our planet are just simple things that He's provided. Imagine what man might have learned if he had sought to know the one who supplied those things!

[Jay Turner]

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth and put Adam and Eve in the garden “to tend it and to keep it”. Tending and keeping is a thing of work, but it is more a journey of discovery. God was inviting them to explore the garden and to learn of all the wonders of His creation. He was inviting them to become co-creators with Him. As they learned of all the things in the garden, they would have the opportunity to take those building blocks and build new and wondrous things. Science and invention were things of God from the very beginning. They were meant to be avenues of seeking, where as we seek and ask questions, God would lead us to the answers to the riddles of creation. These were meant as modes through which we could continue to draw closer to God, glorifying and honoring the work that He has done and join Him in His continuing work of creation.

After the fall, we were separated from God. Due to that separation and our continuing need for knowledge, wisdom and understanding, we continued on in the “tending and working”, while kicking God out of the process. The interesting part to me is how Science tries to look at and understand God’s creation, while avoiding God’s part in the process, while religion tries to live in the midst of God’s creation and understand Him, while separating themselves from much of the science behind that creation.

[chipped china]

Thank you Lori for your comforting words. The Bible says how can we love God if we can't love our brothers and sisters? I believe that same is true with intimacy. How can we have intimacy with God if we can't have it with our brothers and sisters? It touches my heart Lori that you will grieve with me. And you're correct, I bought 40 acres and built my house 400 yards off the road so my dogs could be free. My little dogs are outside only when I am and the big dogs keep the coyotes away and the skunks out of my barn. I live alone so they are also my protection. I also want to say that I go to great lengths to save my dogs too. I've spent 3 days in motel at Washington state University vet school trying to save one with a heart problem. I borrowed a cylinder of oxygen from a respiratory therapist to take him over and bring him back. One of my big dogs got liver cancer. I had the surgery done, nursed the almost dead 120lb dog back to health and got another wonderful 8 months with him until the cancer came back in his lungs.

Sometimes I feel less because I want people to know me, while so many people are teaching what they've learned from God. On the one hand I feel selfish but on the other hand I believe I'm sharing what's in my heart. It's a gift, but most people don't see it that way. I want intimacy with my Lord and I want it from the church. We yell and throw our arms around saying how the church is failing with it's one minute get to know each other.

I've lost many dogs because I've had so many. I know how to give them back to God. I still need help when dealing with unbelievers. Do I just pray for her and not talk to her anymore? She runs her dogs off leash on my property several times a week, I feel like telling her she can't do that anymore, do I need rebuking for that kind of thought? What would Jesus do?

Gareth, I loved you story and long to have more of those experiences myself and to hear more from others.

And Jay, I loved your thoughts on how many try to study God's creation without God. Aren't we humans brilliant??? God gave us each a measure of faith but He didn't call us all? My dad is a scientist, he told me recently He has two Gods. The God who created everything and god of science. What do I say? God is jealous God?

I do have Christ's love for you all, bets

[Jay Turner]

Jay, I loved your thoughts on how many try to study God's creation without God. Aren't we humans brilliant??? God gave us each a measure of faith but He didn't call us all? My dad is a scientist, he told me recently He has two Gods. The God who created everything and god of science. What do I say? God is jealous God?

The dilemma of two God’s, that your father has, is one that I believe many believers share. They have their beliefs about God and creation that they were taught in church or from their understanding of scripture. Then they look at the observable truth of the universe in which we live and the two systems quite often don’t seem to line up. There are missing pieces that prevent their understanding from meshing and it can be a tough situation. To be fair about it, it is best not to force either one to fit with the other.

When you think about it, the study of scripture and science are very much alike. The study of scripture is the study of God and how He has worked through history and the lives of His people. As we study scripture, we can get a sense of who God is, how He works and the principles through which He interacts with His creation. Science, on the other hand, is the study of God’s creation through the observable facts of that creation. In a roundabout way, the study of scripture and the study of science both focus on understanding the character of God, and the principles and the laws that God had put into place before the creation of the world.

Now, when I pick up the Bible, I can read it and try to piece together the ideas and concepts being laid out, based on my own strength, abilities and understanding. I believe this is a common occurrence for many believers. Another avenue is to simply start reading in the Bible and focus on what is being said, while not attaching specific meaning or understanding to those words. As I do this, I try to let the Holy Spirit guide me as I am reading. Quite often, the Spirit will lead me down paths of understanding that never would have occurred to me if I was trying to understand it based on my own abilities. It becomes a sort of dialogue between me and God where I will start asking questions and He will in turn lead me to the answers that I seek.

I believe that science can be studied in much the same way, where as someone is going through the scientific process, they also enter into a dialogue with God. By inviting God into the process, He can help to bridge the gap between the observable world and that of faith. Really, we should be inviting God into whatever it is we find ourselves doing. It honors God, we find ourselves drawing closer to Him and many times, through it, He will bless us through the process.

[Lori Smith]

That's a great question, "What would Jesus do about the dogs?" Well I believe that He would be Himself, and that sometimes ruffled feathers. I think He would be honest, and He would be kind. I certainly don't think you need to be rebuked for having hurt feelings after losing your dog. Her actions were unkind, but I hate how bitterness creeps in when we allow those feelings to linger too long. Then we go to God and allow Him to heal our hearts. Sometimes we need to create some distance between those who hurt us and ourselves (I learned this from Henry Cloud's book "Boundaries.") I'll help you pray for God to give you wisdom about it.

[chipped china]

You're a sweet lady Lori and I will pray about this. I do trust God to show me how to act. And I know He'll help me have a forgiving heart too. I probably shouldn't have brought up the subject in this forum. I'm looking to find a deeper life with people but this might not be the best place, I'm going to start going to a women's bible study, hopefully that will help my longing to share. Thanks for your patience with me

Good thoughts Jay. The real problem with science and religion is the Old Testament is looked at as a bunch of stories that can't possibly be true. Can people still have saving faith that believe this?

[Lori Smith]

Betsy,

There's NOTHING wrong with sharing your heart. I do think it's great that you're going to start going to a lady's Bible study. God may be pulling you in that direction. It may be that He is frustrating your heart here because He has something more for you. At least that's how He works in my life ... I walk in one direction and feel no peace. I also feel frustration and lack. Then I move towards the place He had for me. Funny, sounds like a Shepherd herding a sheep doesn't it??

Love and blessings,
Lori

[chipped china]

Lori, I think God works in my life pretty much the same way. Climbing mountains to get a better views using our hinds feet and then getting the joy of discovery and peace as we slowly slide down to another valley where another climb begins. Although I maintain a certain peace and joy I don't think the Lord wants us to stay where we are but always looking for that deeper life. a thankful sheep, bets

[Lori Smith]

I don't know about you, but right now I'm a pretty tired sheep! I'm thankful too, but a bit overwhelmed at the moment. I think change can be hard when we're used to a particular mountain with a particular view. Life is an adventure!

Shalom,
Lori