12 replies to this topic

[Lori Smith]

God doesn't forgive sin, He forgives us. In other words, He doesn't forgive us and see us with the sin we have repented of, because He removes the sin. Sometimes, at least with me, I can't see God forgiving me because I've done something I think is unforgivable (I get angry etc). But the Lord showed me that the mistake I am making in this is that I assume that God has to forgive me WITH that sin. He doesn't. Instead, He forgives ME and removes that sin. The end result is that God has forgiven me, and He loves me, and sees me without that past sin, not with it.

Sin and God are always incompatible; thus it is impossible for us to imagine God loving us WITH a certain sin. But He doesn't love us with it, He removes it. I think that was the point the apostle Paul was making in Romans 6-8. We are new creations in Christ, and in our flesh dwells no good thing; but we are NOT our flesh. Thus, sin is something separate from our identity that Jesus can dispose of. Then He forgives us, and removes the sin. Then we can have peace in our hearts and enjoy our relationship with God and not think it's God and us with sin. Instead it's God and us without sin.

Hope this makes sense. It's hard to convey in words sometimes what is impressed upon my heart.

[Charles Miles]

Lori,

I don`t think I have ever heard that expressed any better by anyone!! Thank you for your thoughts on forgiveness. I will get to think about that all day today and smile. As Mr Jerry Clower would have said, You shucked that all the way down to the cobb!!

Charlie

[Lori Smith]

Thank you so much Charlie for bringing a smile to my heart!

[Candice]

Hi Lori,
You worded your thoughts quite well. As Mark Twain said "If I had more time, I'd write shorter letters." You are almost always concise in your postings.

What is true here is definitely that "He doesn't forgive our sin, He forgives us" You word it similarly to my friend who says that she sees Jesus standing before GOD ALMIGHTY and she is hiding underneath Jesus's robes, behind him as a child, knowing Jesus is interceding to the FATHER for her. So, the FATHER doesn't see her sin. The FATHER sees only Jesus as Christ. So, it takes it one more step (maybe).

Love you and thanks for blessing us!,
Candice

[chipped china]

My spirit is singing songs of praise to our Lord and my brothers and sisters.

[landonmark]

Hi Lori,

That is a wonderful explanation of our relationship with Jesus. One of the things that God revealed to me early in my re-awakening years ago, and as I have had reinforced by so much of Tozer's writings and sermons, is that the Holy Spirit CANNOT dwell where sin remains- it is simply a moral impossibility. That sin, in faithful repentance, has to be removed- not glossed over, not painted- removed, for the Spirit of God to dwell within.

Thanks for the awesome reminder!
Blessings,
Mark

[Jay Turner]

The Old Testament law defined for us what sin was and was to show us the depths of how far we had fallen from God. But when Jesus died on the cross and was risen on the third day, all sin was forgiven. God no longer judges us according to our sins, but instead based on our relationship with Him. I have never known a day where God judged me according to the law, for every sin I could commit was forgiven over two millennia before I was even born, but it wasn't until I came to this realization and started living according to this fact that I could benefit from the true freedom of Christ's death and resurrection. This is salvation.

Sin, at its very essence, is living according to our judgment instead of God's. For Adam and Eve, they had free reign of the garden and could do anything except eat the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That fruit was sin to them because God declared it as such, and until God declares a thing, we are not accountable to it. In like manner, all things are lawful to us. When we let the Holy Spirit guide us, the Spirit will guide our steps and teach us God's ways. So when in our heart of hearts, the Spirit says don't do "this" or don't do "that", at that point those things we should count as sin.

Part of what it means to be in a personal relationship with God is that through His Spirit, He will lead and guide us as individuals. When God speaks to me and says do "this" or don't do "that", those instructions are for me on a personal level. When I share my conviction with you on the matter, it becomes your responsibility to seek God for yourself as to where He is leading you. He may speak to you on the matter or He may not. But when I take my convictions and try to force it upon you, in effect what I am doing is trying to put you back under the law.

When you begin to look at sin and salvation from this perspective, our relationship with God stops being a thing of works and continually striving to be good enough in God's eyes. We don't have to worry about sin and forgiveness, for we are already forgiven. Life becomes all about seeking God and walking the path in which He is leading us on instead of continually looking back on our sins and trying to fix our brokenness. This frees us up so we can focus on where God is leading us and the calling He has placed before us. Our salvation and sanctification takes on the focus of learning and knowing the Spirit's voice and in turn walking by the Spirit.

[Lori Smith]

Mark,

Indeed, the Holy Spirit cannot abide together with sin, but God removes the sin because we are in Christ.

Jay,

I appreciate what you say about walking in the Spirit. That is SO TRUE (that was actually the sermon I heard in church this morning! ). When we follow the Holy Spirit we won't sin because we follow Him. Many, as my pastor said this morning, get it backwards and think, if I don't sin, that means I'm walking in the Spirit through default. I think it's great how the Holy Spirit personally grows us up. I apologize to any that I might have placed under legalism because I stated you must address something that God was dealing with me about. That is a really good point Jay!

Lori

[chipped china]

Hallelujah We have been set free to live in and with our Precious Lord, Great Redeemer, Holy One forever and ever!!!

[Candice]

When we follow the Holy Spirit we won't sin because we follow Him. Many, as my pastor said this morning, get it backwards and think, if I don't sin, that means I'm walking in the Spirit through default.

Hmm. This is my stumbling block to be sure. I get so discouraged when anything at all happens that seems to send me backwards in my belief, from anything at all -- from distraction during worship service to speaking something unkind to my son. I believe there's still quite a bit of Catholicism in me from the first 20 years of my life. It's tough to get past the darkness as described by nuns - that your soul has black marks on it when you do something wrong. But, all my efforts don't seem to clean it up. And, what do you know, there I go again into bondage.
Candice

[Jay Turner]

Humanity has been in bondage, in one form or another, ever since the fall. With Jesus death and resurrection, we have been given the gift of freedom from bondage, yet no one has experienced it in its fulness, since the fall, besides Christ Himself. The thing we have to remember is that we have been under the yoke of bondage so long and it has been engrained into us so deeply that we don't understand the real depths of how far that bondage goes. Even when we look at the freest points we have experienced, we have barely scratched the surface of the true freedom in which God has to offer and Christ died so we may have. I believe that as God's children, we are called to reclaim the world for His glory. Just think of all the different aspects of God's creation that Satan has perverted over the eons. But how can we really begin to live in the freedom of Christ and reclaim the world for His glory, when we barely know what it means to be free. Remember that God will only take us as far as we are willing to allow. He will not force us on a path that we are not ready to take. So the question that needs to be asked is how far are we ready and willing to go?

[chipped china]

Jay,

Those are some deep and thrilling thoughts. You gave me a lot to meditate on tonight. your sister in Christ, bets

[Charles Miles]

Candice,

Jay is correct in stating that sin has already been forgiven and there really is no more sin problem, except that many people just can`t deal with the fact that the "problem" has alrady been solved. I know you already know that there are no "black marks" on your soul Candice. All the "black marks" for all men for all time were placed upon Jesus on the cross and He paid the price for all of us....for all time. By simply accepting that fact and speaking with our n mouth that Jesus is Lord, we cease to have any marks at all. We can become the very righteousness of God(that is still hard for me to say, but it is so very true). When we become members of God`s family, we have ready access to the throne and can approach boldly to make our requests known to the Father.
Just how good a deal is that??? We can go speak to our Fathet, God of the universe, and savior God, who loves us beyond what we can ever imagine. We now have the right to speak with Him anytime we want!! Wow.

Praise be to God the Father who sits on the Throne,

Charlie