10 replies to this topic

[Kevin Blankenship]

It really spoke to me. I just woke up and it's caught me off guard. It really makes me want to observe my motives. Do I REALLY LOVE JESUS???? Would I still love HIM if all of my 'toys' were taken away and my situation was different.
I have done alot of reading of the Christian classics, as I believe that most of you have. And I believe that they all agree upon this: We cannot change ourselves one iota!!! I cannot even make myself LOVE GOD more!! That God must shed abroad the Love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.
That GOD must give us a willingness to be as fully consecrated as necessary. That leaves me with a question: What part do I play in my salvation and day to day life? It sounds to me like a good old fashioned Baptism in the Holy Spirit is what I need. I need an EDGE man!!!! I cannot "pull this off" without God's help.....PERIOD!!!!! Oh, I can have everyone THINKING that I'm a Christian by talking a certain way, but like I've already said, I read alot of Christian classics. So I could be a play-actor (hypocrite) and get away with it with all but the discerning. But I don't WEANT that kind of walk with the Lord!!!! I WANT my heart to burn with love towards Jesus, because He first loved me.
I guess, at times, I am just giving some kind of response to God's Will that we be reconciled to Him through faith in His Son. As you can tell, I have woke up this morning without that Blessed Assurance. I look over the last few days and ask myself: Is that the way a man who is Twice Born lives. Should not I be putting more emphasis on the things of God rather than just trucking along, and enjoying my hobbies, and taking care of Momma, and that's about it. AM I TRULY SAVED???
(These are questions I ask myself. I am not asking them to the group. I give myself no quarter because I know how deceitful my heart can be) Thanks for reading.

[Meema]

This is going to sound harsh, but please know that I am speaking with affection and coming from not a small amount of personal experience here. In my life path I have learned quite a bit about human nature, especially my own. What I know about humans in general is that they always want more. But Christians have been taught that they should be content with what they have, grateful and at peace. So, Christians shove their natural human tendencies into a dark hole, out of sight, and then anguish out loud about how inadequate they are because it sounds ... well, more Christian-like. We moan and groan over what we ought to be doing to prove we love God and that we are saved all the while ignoring what is really happening underneath it all.

I know what it’s like to feel held back, to yearn to be doing something so much more rewarding and meaningful. But sometimes God says, here is where I want you to be, and, yes, it isn’t on the mountaintop, it’s definitely in the valley where no one can see you and you feel time is slipping away from you. But God sees you and this moment, that will not last forever, is a testing ground. And this too shall pass.

I urge you to reconsider that by constantly worrying that you are not worthy to be saved in effect you are actually claiming that God is not able to save the likes of you, which, I believe is really just frustration disguised as humility.

To quote Oswald Chambers:
“We are inclined to think that everything that happens is to be turned into useful teaching. In actual fact, it is to be turned into something even better than teaching, namely, character. The mountaintop is not meant to teach us anything, it is meant to make us something. There is a terrible trap in always asking, “What’s the use of this experience?” We can never measure spiritual matters in that way. The moments on the mountaintop are rare moments, and they are meant for something in God’s purpose.”
The dull, monotenous, dreary, moments in the valley are where the rubber meets the road. It often allows for too much time to think and our thoughts, that are constantly at war with those human nature things we are denying, never come to truthful, fruitful conclusions.
Ultimately, humans are inclined, because of our base nature, to look at everything from the view point of introspection. When we mature in the spirit we find it more rewarding to look out toward Him more and into ourselves less. After all, our salvation isn’t really about us at all, it’s about Him.
I kept an online journal while I was in the deep valley caring for my mother-in-law. It’s still online if you are interested in reading it. I started it in August of 2009 but that was not the beginning, and actually closer to the end. But when I started it I had no glimmer of the end in sight.
http://themarychroni...-somewhere.html
For Christ,
Meema

[Kevin Blankenship]

I sense that there is some love in your reply. And I had just woke up when I made the post and made the post right after I read this mornings Tozer devotional. As far as "disguised as humililty" I am also aware that humility can come disguised as many things. Reckon how I know this? Because I am so wise to human nature? That I have an uncanny gift of discernment? NO! It's because I've done the whole charades thing for years and only recently (7 years ago) decided to make a real go at this thing. And then I run into people discussing 5 point Calvinism and the first time my human nature rears its ugly head my first inclination is to doubt my salvation. More than that: Doubt that I am even one of the ELECTED FROZEN CHOSEN. So if I am frustrated, it's about many things. But one of the main ones is this idea that Jesus dies for ONLY A SELECT FEW and to hades with the rest of them. (or us, depending on which mood I'm in)
Sadly, I still have alot of the old Adam in me. More than I care to elaborate on. So when I make these type posts....I'm a real human trying desperately to secure a real relationship with a real Christ. And I notice things. Every time I make a post like this it brings certain ones out of the woodwork to :"set me straight" and it usually starts off with: "Now I am going to say what I say in love, BUT............and then it comes."
The Bible tells me to make my calling and election sure! I take it that THAT admonition would best be done myself and without sharing AT ALL with other folks who just might feel the same way.
"Trying to sound all humble-like" Is THAT how I come across? Well....I'll say THIS in love: I don't have the time nor do I wish to TAKE the time to try to convince anyone of how humble I am. I'll tell ya straight up front: I'M NOT HUMBLE!!! It's a quality, or the lack of it, that causes me such .....frustration. Day after day after day after week after week and I would really like to see some victory in my life over "THE OLD MAN" and all that THAT implies. ie. lack of humilty, anger, rage, lust, not spending enough time each day in prayer. At night, I can look back over my day, at everything that I did or said, or thought, and many times say to myself: Now THAT is not the way a child of God should behave, or think, or talk. Yes..it's frustrating. But"frustrating" is an way understatement. Its far more than 'frustrating'. It's gut wrenching. Wondering if I'm going to be standing there when Jesus carries the church away and I'll be left standing. Sorry to say this, but all of our brains are different. Phobias, fixations, etc etc. If I sound like a babe in Christ then I am one (I certainly hope). Does THAT sound like I am trying to "come off" as sounding humble? No....it's being real about how I feel. PERIOD! But, I'm no dummy. I'll know better than to share how I really feel, and start sounding more spiritual. No, on second thought. I'll keep sharing how i feel or think. Just like I did this morning after reading Tozer's devotional coupled with how I have been feeling lately. Then again, I may hush.

[Kevin Blankenship]

I apoloqize for losing my cool. I could have said it alot better if I had just said: I have found a forum, a fellowship of folks with like precious faith. Somedays, I feel on top of everything and in control. Somedays, I don't. I feel that we should be able to talk/communicate on those OFF -days without being lectured. I simply felt bad this morning. Like King David did ALOT of times. I;m certainly not the man he was, but we share at least one common trait, if not two: One.....we are both human, Two.....we both fear God. (I know, this is where someone always says: "But it's a REVERENTIAL fear".) Well, that's fine.
But back on topic: I feel as if I have, or am growing closer to some of my sisters and brothers here and sometimes I want to share what's in my heart. Good or bad. I feel like, having been an A/D counselor, before taking care of momma, that I know at least something of human nature myself. But, I bet that the majority of people on here are experts at knowing human nature. Because we are human. We ALL have doctorates in the human experience. We are LEARNING more about Jesus' nature, and how to become more Christ-like. One thing that I learned about human nature: sometimes people just need to vent. They JUST NEED EARS. Or in this situation...eyes. One of my fellow counselors had this bad habit of, after a client had shared what was on his heart, and oftentimes was in tears, this counselor would launch into this hour-long lecture. when all the client needed was a hug. Or a sympathetic ear. The lecture turned it into an awkward situation and the poor client finally started looking at his watch. Couldn't blame him. So did I. LOL Anyway, I apologize for sounding snappy. One of those mornings. I'll do better.

[chipped china]

I loved the words Meema spoke because I guess today her words were meant for me!! As for you Kevin, I believed you were really wrestling with your salvation this morning and although you said you just wanted to vent, my first reaction was to edify and uplift you. I sometime let Satan sneak some unsavory thoughts into my head like is there really a God, Am I really not afraid to die physically?? Gee whiz Kevin, do hypocrites really write all the spirit filled blogs you have and not be saved? You're still in the stage where you are mourning who you were. But go ahead have some pride, anger, lust, you're still forgiven, washed clean because the Father will never let you be snatched from His hand. Tozer was talking about the real hypocrites, they don't think they are..... they aren't teachable.

2Timothy 3:7 Ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Like Meema said, we need to try to be less introspective and look to God. I guess as long as we are building character it's all good. Bets

[Candice]

Kevin,
Someone once said that if you're overtly concerned about assurance of your salvation, you are saved because most folks just don't think about it. They're no better or worse. Our sins are covered. Paul said the things he ought to do he did not do and the things he ought not to do he did. He expressed frustration with sin and flesh, yet he was assured of salvation. He said that towards the end of his ministry I believe.

[Candice]

Recommend: "Victory over the Darkness" by Neil T. Anderson. ficm.org (Freedom in Christ Ministries) in (Knoxville, TN?). Good start to getting some victory over the past and particularly your position in Christ.

I appreciate your being transparent. Transparency is lacking. Look up to your hope. Ponder God and how amazing that anyone on this planet get saved.

[Lori Smith]

Kevin,

Candice brings up such a good point. The devil has been assaulting you with five-point Calvinism, but your response either shows you ARE one of the elect or disproves it completely. The reason I say that is because the basis behind election is that man is so depraved, he can't come to God on his own volition. Thus, he needs God's grace to give him enough light to recognize his own depravity and go to God. Well you are saying you might not be good enough to be one of the elected ones. If Calvinism is true (which I don't agree with by the way), then you would never have the ability to have enough light in yourself to recognize this ... or you would be too depraved to care. You obviously care so you have nullified either Calvinism, or you have nullified that you aren't one of the elect. You can't have a desire to go to God but be denied God in Calvinism. You are either too depraved to go to God, or you realize you are depraved and you do go to God (in that case you have proven that you are one of the elect).

My own belief (and I think Scripture backs me up) is that God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son, and whoever calls upon Him has eternal life. I also believe that sanctification happens over a lifetime. I have said this once before and people can believe or not believe me. When I was a new Christian, I had to give a speech before the church. I had taken CWT (Christian Witness Training) and the pastor wanted me to share before the church what I had learned. Well I was anxious about doing a good job. I walked up and down the streets and I prayed and I prayed. I didn't want to let my pastor down, and I wanted to do a good job. Well then I had to go to the mall for something, and I continued to pray when I was in the mall. I remember looking up at the ceiling as I prayed and I noticed that there were windows near the ceiling of the mall. I hadn't noticed that before. Then God spoke to me audibly. He hasn't done it since even though I have felt like I was sad and I just needed to hear Him speak to me. He never spoke audibly to me again. But what He said to me, He says to you and everyone. Jesus said to me, "Lori, you are made perfect in Me." I didn't know about Greek tenses then; I didn't know about aorist or past perfect, or past imperfect etc. But if you notice what Jesus said to me, it shows a completed work, and also a work still being completed. He also showed me that I am made perfect IN HIM. I don't make myself perfect through works etc.

I love Tozer, but he isn't God. Not everything he says is perfect. We can trust Paul who was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Paul said we're saved by grace through faith. That means we have a part to play--our faith/response to God saves us. That nullifies Calvinism as far as I'm concerned when it comes to getting saved.

Hope something I've said helps.

Your sister in Christ,
Lori

[Lori Smith]

Kevin

I want to add that I'm not saying Tozer was a Calvinist--he wasn't. I was actually responding to both points you made 1) Tozer devotional about how to know if we love God, and 2) The issues about Calvinism. I realize I kind of responded to both in one statement and it looked like I was saying that Tozer (an Arminianist) was a Calvinist.

[Charles Miles]

Lori,
You are spot on with your comments as far as I`m concerned. Salvation is in an instant but "renewal of the mind" takes a while. We must have faith that what the Lord says is true is actually true. As far as the old saits are concerned, I think each of them had a revelation of the Spirit to a level. Luther...Calvin....Wesley...Spurgeon...Tozer..etc. Each of them had understanding given them by Holy Spirit up to a time/level and each built upon the other`s revelations. Since Tozer was most recent, I think he is the most relivant and "up to date" with insight. This is not to say that these saints could not be wrong in certain areas, and I`m sure that Tozer would not have you believe everything he said without testing it with the Word of God. All of these men were close in their walk with the Lord and I certainly respect all that they said as inspiration they recieved. Maybe we could even call them "elect" of God in a way.
To base one`s faith on what any one of them said at any given time....in my opinion would be wrong and I think they would probably agree with me. Just the fact that there are divisions such as Calvinuism, Armeneism, and others, seems to indicate that we need to look hard at the belief system. "A house divided cannot stand", "one cannot serve 2 masters, either he will hate one and love the other". God`s will is in agreement with His Word and there can never be contradiction.
I`m not sure what it is that I am trying to say and I`m sure that I`m not saying it right, but when I read Lori`s note, all this hit me like a ton of bricks. Maybe some of you can decipher what I`m attempting to say here.

Always in Christ`s love,

Charlie

[Julie Daube]

Meema wrote:

I urge you to reconsider that by constantly worrying that you are not worthy to be saved in effect you are actually claiming that God is not able to save the likes of you...

Yes! This is so true! The Bible makes it clear that we can know for certain that we are saved: "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may KNOW that you have eternal life" (1 John 5:13). We don't need to keep questioning and doubting our salvation; and I would venture to say that such doubt is not of God but is an attack of the enemy. Being constantly fearful that one is not saved could not possibly come from God, because perfect love casts out fear, and God's Word says we have not been given a spirit of fear. Kevin, the next time you find yourself questioning your salvation, I urge you to rebuke those thoughts in the name of Jesus!