4 replies to this topic

[Thinker]

Probably no church is without problems. Some may have very few. Others may have many. Finding a "perfect" church is an impossible dream! In looking around for a good church, for what do we look? Things you will never see include a perfect pastor, music that pleases all, faultless homiletical messages, complete agreement on just one version of Scripture to use, Christians that are always consistent, etc. So, I repeat, what do we look for in a church? Let's start with understanding just exactly what we believe ourselves. Do we believe, without reservation, all of the major doctrines of Scripture (Virgin Birth, Deity of Christ, Trinity, Physical Resurrection, etc.)? What secondary issues are very important to us? What can we live with as to music? Is there only one reliable Bible version? (I personally believe that there is only one; I treat the others as commentaries). Once we've settled things like these, we can begin to look for a church that comes as close as possible to convictions that we've carefully developed and hold. We may find one that is right down the line with our own understanding. However, probably not. When we have found a church that we are comfortable with, the next things to look for include things like the following: Is Scripture and good doctrine central? Is apologetics taught? Does/do the man (men) in the pulpit love the Word and are they excited about it? Is holiness of life exhorted? Is the music doctrinally sound with the music supporting, not clashing with, the message? Is the church Christ-centered rather than entertainment driven? Once questions like these are settled, what do we bring to the church? If we are only looking for what we can receive in church, our approach is unbalanced. There must be giving, as well as receiving. Also giving to and receiving from the brethren, love and support, is very important. Quality, not size, is what matters most. Selah! Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" (I Thessalonians 5:21).

[Candice]

Hi Thinker,

This is the verbatum (copied from website) of a church our family attended a few years ago. These are their values and how they believe Believers are to be within the church. Now lots of this is good, but it is a very seeker sensitive church. Therefore, no communion as not to offend unbelievers that they are outreaching to, no expository sermons as not to offend. Instead, they have topicals on parenting, marriage, work, etc. that bring people together in a common bond. A very "Purpose Driven" church-like atmosphere. I don't think so, but it attracts many people who are "seeking". We left because people were living like "hell" and the leadership very controlling over parenting, etc. What do you think? I'd like to know if this is good?

"We Value Unity
We believe that love and unity are more significant biblical doctrines than many of the minor doctrines that often divide churches. Because of this, division in the church and petty arguments over the carpet color are unheard of. Or maybe it’s just because we don’t have carpet. Well, either way, it sure helps us get along really well.
We Value Servant Leadership
We believe that leaders are servants, as best demonstrated by Jesus. We also believe that pastors are responsible for the church in God’s eyes, therefore our pastors are accountable to each other and to God. Although this is different from how many churches do things, we believe this most closely follows the examples given us in the New Testament. In addition, we believe the Word of God is thoroughly adequate to equip pastors for the task as taught in 2 Timothy 3:16, 17, and although we think seminary is a fine thing, we don’t view it as necessary. Instead, our pastors are evaluated by the standards of character set forth in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1. Because these character areas can only be accurately evaluated when you really know a person, our leaders and pastors are developed from within the church rather than brought in from seminaries and other churches.
We Value the Local Church
We believe the local church is God’s chosen instrument to reach the world. There are many, many great Christian organizations, but we believe that the local church is where our energies and efforts should be focused to best advance the work of God.
We Value Strong Marriages and Families
Because God impacts lives all week long and not just on when we’re at church, we’ve found that our families have been dramatically changed by our relationships with God. Of course, we aren’t perfect yet, but you’ll find many role models of good parenting at The Rock, and you’ll find lots of kids that are actually fun to be around!! Of course great marriages are central to great families, and we’ve got lots of those as well!
We Value Spirit Led Ministry
We believe that ministry in the church is accomplished by everyone in the church working together. As we all collectively strive to accomplish God’s work, a proper focus is achieved that helps us be united in purpose and in love.
We Value Character
Head knowledge is great, but we believe that knowledge must be applied to our lives in such a way that it results in character growth to truly become valuable to us. Because of our emphasis on character development, you’ll find that we have more than our share of characters.
We Value Relationship with God
We believe people’s lives are dramatically changed as they spend time reading the Bible and applying what they learn to their lives. By doing this, and by communicating with God through prayer, we develop relationships with God, which are fundamental to the Christian life. Because of this, these habits are encouraged in our church and widely practiced.
We Value Grace
We believe that God wants us to live lives that are honoring to Him and that are worthy of His name. We also believe that He has given us an incredible amount of grace and freedom in the Christian life, and when we fall short of what God wants, He is gracious and compassionate, and wants us to treat each other likewise."

Thanks!

[Candice]

Thinker,
Good quote from Tozer from a recent devotional:
"The dream of a universal brotherhood based upon the ethics of Jesus is just that-a dream. It is compounded of a few words of Christ mixed with vast numbers of uninspired words spoken by men whose yearnings are to be commended but whose wisdom is suspect. To arrive at the doctrine of brotherhood it is necessary that we reject the major portion of the New Testament and misunderstand the rest. There were once two brothers. They lived in a society that had not had time to develop the many social evils we know today. Yet one killed the other because sin was there. If two brothers in the morning of the world could not get on together, how can we hope that the gentle teachings of Jesus can ever bring brotherhood to a race filled with complex iniquities, where men inherit hates and where the souls of all are lacerated by jealousy, envy, egotism, greed and lust? The hope of the individual is the new birth and the acceptance of the teachings of Christ as a way of life. The hope of the race is that Christ shall come again to earth. Even so, Lord, come quickly."
Timely to your topic!
Bless you.

[Kevin Blankenship]

And while I am not naive enough to believe that the Impossible Dream-church can be found, especially in America, I really believe that we Americans should go the the third world countries, to the places where persecution of Christians is a real threat, and see how THEY have chrurch. And then copy them. There is not a church in my area that has not become merely a PLACE where people can come to keep God off their backs for NOT going. Tozer was absolutely correct in all of his foresight about the direction that the church in America is taking. How we are becoming like the world around us so as to be more attractive to the unchurched.
Me...I can attend,,,,and tolerate the "KJV only" churches, but that would not be my first choice as I prefer an American Standard version and a NIV bible. I actually use a KJV as a commentary...or a reference.
We have churches with signs outside that read .."King James Version only". We have churches that have on the sign outside: "We still use hymnbooks". Etc Etc Etc. The church in America, if the churches in my area are any indication, are coming to their logical end (for lack of a better word). The signs outside are meant to say: "This is the same kind of church that your grandma took ya too." and is meant to draw people based on sentiment.
Now personally...I prefer hymns. There are a few choruses that I can abide with, but the older hymns are my favorite. I can blame Tozer for that. He has an article on "Suggestions for the newly converted" (or something like that) where he tells the new man to have a bible, a hymnbook, a few Christian Classics, etc etc. And since he has been my Posthumous Pastor for a while, I take him at his word.
To summarize: I fully agree that one will never find the church where everyone is in agreement over EVERYTHING. But I DO think tha we should be in full and perfect agreement over the Apostles Teachings. (and sing Hymns-only........just kidding).

[Thinker]

I know I have been blessed. I started to really grow in a church that manifested love and encouragement. We had a pastor whose love of the Word was contagious. Practical holiness was taught, not imposed, and was exemplified. We were given sound doctrine and learned to defend what we believed. Missions was emphasized much. Young people (and older people) were challenged to "surrender" for full time Christian service. Bible Schools and Christian collleges were promoted as important to attend. That was back when most of them were sound in the basics of the faith. They even had standards on separation that you promised to comply with. The influence of that church is still being felt today all over the world. I think that I could say, without fear of contradiction, it was a Savior sensitive church. We may or may not find one like that today. However, we can encourage that kind of ministry in our current church by example and prayer. If it comes to the point that the church is frozen in place, perhaps there are some other Christians that share our concerns that we can fellowship with during the week. If we are developing in true discipleship, it can be contagious. Churches have been revived. Above all, be careful and prayerful and don't make hasty decisions. Seek God's guidance day by day. Too many people bail out without having knelt down. Be a part of the answer to your prayers. God hasn't stopped using serious Christians in remarkable ways. Thinker (Ron).