6 replies to this topic

[Thinker]

Ask many Christians today to tell you what makes a church dynamic and you will probably get a lot of the same kinds of answers. A church must reach lots of people and bring them in. A church needs a lot of activities and programs. Offerings need to grow to fund new advances. A church should be up-to-date technologically. Nice buildings and comfortable seating should be available. These are some of the current ideas. These aren't necessarily bad. However, a church can have all these things, look vibrant and still be dead. (Some churches have been able to do these things and still be Spiritually alive). What really is a dynamic church? Earnest prayer is the context. Churches will not thrive without real prayer. First, the Word of God is central. There are churches that do this. May their number increase. Nevertheless, one thing that should not be tolerated is for anyone to proclaim that Word as if it is just a lecture. All too often, that is done and it is probably going to be boring. A Spirit filled preacher is going to preach it as it is: the Living Word of Almighty God. Scripture reading is often done, just droning on. Preacher, people, give it the expression that it deserves! More important than all the aids and programs is loving the brethren and being there for them. Welcome people with enthusiasm. Don't wait for people to come in. Reach out, somehow. The basic pattern is to let God use us to try and win folks and then bring them in for discipling. Churches need to train people in discipleship and apologetics. A dynamic church doesn't need a CEO and Board of Directors. When was it ever the role of Elders and Deacons to lead a church as if it were a business? It needs Spirit filled servant/leaders who can teach and train. Selah! Use these guidelines and a church can be truly dynamic with a few people or multitudes. (It probably won't remain few for long, if we pursue these goals patiently and prayerfully). Thinker (Ron)

"Preach the Word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine" (II Timothy 4:2). "And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also" (II Timothy 2:2).

[Kevin Blankenship]

I have visited the majority of the evangelical churches in my area and would visit for several services in a row to see if that ws the church that I wanted to call home. From now on, I am leaving it into GOD'S Hands......where i should attend. My Sunday's are now tied up with caregiving, but there are many times that I could get away and attend church.
At all of the churches I attended around here, you'll have to do your socializing either before or after Sunday School or Main Worship service. Or else, your socilaizing will only consist of being seated in the same room with fellow members. In most of these churches, it's the Pastor who does all the talking, followed by the Sunday School Teaher who is teaching from an outline that the PASTOR makes. And the Pastor preaches to the flock using nifty little Alliterated sermons, where the POINTS A,B, and C start with the same letter. Alliteration.....a literary device that is supposed to help the congregation remember the main topics of the sermon. I personally fel that hinders the man of God's ability to bring God's present message to bear upon the audience.
Needless to say...I am awfully disenchanted by the organized so-called churches in my area. Denomination not-with-standing.
But very good thread.

[Thinker]

Kevin, I relate to your concerns. I pray that my comments are constructive and critical only with a desire to help. I suspect, from what I've read and heard, that many churches are headed up by good men who have been trained at some of our present day Christian Colleges and Bible Institutes. Some of these centers of learning have stayed with the basics. Others have opened themselves (often wide-opened) to programs, methods, secular thinking, entertainment and other questionable influences. The finished products of this kind of training engage their churches in all kinds of activities (some of which are O.K. in their place) but fail to major on what counts from God's point-of-view. Solid Biblical, doctrinal, preaching must be central. This preaching is not to put the spotlight on the Pastor's gifts and abilities. This preaching needs God's anointing. Love for the brethren is a big need. We need to get away from the concept of building churches and begin to build Christians. Oh, I know that some will argue that building churches gives us more people to build. While there is some truth to this, God is more concerned with depth than breadth. No ideas of men can take the place of dependence upon the wonderful Holy Spirit. Jesus' one-on-one contacts probably accomplished more than His ministry to large groups. The outpouring of the Spirit in Acts 2 brought large numbers to salvation but they "....continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers." (From Acts 2:42). Wishing you His best! Thinker (Ron)

[Charles Miles]

Amen Ron. In my opinion, too much importance is placed on the "polished sermon" that resembles a textbook. I do want to be clear about my comments though....I have no intention of being critical of God`s messengers, just some of the sermons are too polished and "slick", so they cruise right by the average Joe(which most of us are). Don`t get me wrong though, the pastor should be prepared for the message, but the real message that reaches the heart comes from Holy Spirit. Preaching Biblical truth without too many extra frappings will stir the heart and get the person thinking rightly....when Holy Spirit is present. After all, it is the job of Holy Spirit to do the teaching.

[ADVRider]

I'd like to see the body of Christ encourage and move to smaller settings, where possible, perhaps a house church style arrangement or small groups within the church. There is a fairly large church in Colorado Springs that still meets as a large body, but they have equipped pastors to oversee house churches under their oversight.

In my journeys over the years, I have come to believe that one missing element of dynamism might be the lack of what I'd call "every-member" functioning. I think it's often misunderstood, feared or just not known in traditional settings. However, I also believe it's a key element, whether in a traditional church or an informal small group like a house church.

Dissecting Kevin's quote above: "In most of these churches, it's the Pastor who does all the talking, followed by the Sunday School Teaher who is teaching from an outline that the PASTOR makes. And the Pastor preaches to the flock using nifty little Alliterated sermons, where the POINTS A,B, and C start with the same letter. Alliteration.....a literary device that is supposed to help the congregation remember the main topics of the sermon. I personally fel that hinders the man of God's ability to bring God's present message to bear upon the audience," we see where one or two do all the ministry, mainly to an audience. This is the traditional setup, but unfortunately, it does not contribute to every member functioning very well, if at all. And as many of us have experienced, if the pastor himself is not very dynamic, then the "audience" is often unmoved. So what to do? More is needed. And this is an area where less truly might be more. Less of the "one-man," more of the body.

There is a lot more that could be explored in this direction, but I have found the most dynamic settings I have been in are ones where there is a mutual expression of gifts and leadings of the Holy Spirit through various people in a meeting. I personally have grown as much, if not more, through mutual discussion of the Christian life, etc. than through repeated sermons where I am a passive listener and not an active participant. I think if churches began to look at discipleship seriously like Thinker said, there would be a shift to this type of interaction and less "one-man" philosophy of ministry. The setting is not as important, but a large auditorium where a speaker faces an audience is not the most conducive because it causes a separation and a distinction. Other places and times should be set aside where members can participate and allow the expression of Christ to flow through them in a mutuality. The life and ministry of Jesus with his disciples shows this exact thing; Jesus imparting not just his words to them, but his Spirit-infused life. His message was wrapped in who he was/is. We need more of this if we want to see 'dynamic" churches. We need to see the pastor as simply one of us, and he needs to see himself the same way. Otherwise, we will continue to have churches filled (or not filled) with people who see the pastor as executive and themselves as passive (non)participants, but never really operating in their giftings. They will simply "go to" church, then "go" home. This is not the Christian community that Christ envisaged, but part of the difficulty we face as the body of Christ in the west is our increasingly isolated culture and our entertainment mindset as well. So if we have a difficult time of recognizing a "dynamic church," it might be that there are really not that many around, at least in the sense where a living, active and mutual discipleship is taking place. And it also might just be that we've been so conditioned on both sides of the platform to the way things are, that we like it just fine and do not know there can be more to it.

In saying this, I truly hope no one takes me to be saying pastors are not doing their job and not serving the flock. If anything, I believe most pastors have been trained and taught in such a way that in many instances, they are doing way more than they are supposed to, in a sense. And that is, they often attempt to do everything when they are mainly called to a role of oversight and equipping, no small task already. But there still must be an emphasis on discipleship and expression of the whole body if we are going to see healthy disciples that become living stones in a dynamic Church.

[Kevin Blankenship]

Oh very definitely is the church that I am now a member (loosely stated) of very traditional as far as the way they do things. Well, first we have a opening song ( no hymnbooks, Tozer would cringe), usually an upbeat modern song that plays on Christian radio. It generally flows into a hymn. (Gotta keep young and old alike happy with the music ya know). Then....there's a special. Either the choir or a soloist sings a popular song on the Christian radio. This happens while the tithes and offering are collected. Then the pastor makes announcements. One more congregational song. Then....without fail, an alliterated sermon. It flows into: "With all heads bowed, who will answer the call of Christ as he knocks on your hearts door. Just slip up a hand and put it back down real quick. Nobody peeking." Sometimes there's an answer and the person goes up front and takes the pastor by the hand. After the Conversion has been affected, the pastor announces to the congregation that the angels in heaven are rejoicing. Everyone claps. The pastor instructs the newly converted (many times with a bewildered look) to go to the back door so that the congregation can (now here's a new phrase that is making it's way through church circles these days) LOVE ON THEM and make the feel welcome. I have heard the SO THAT WE CAN JUST LOVE ON YA phrase at several different churches, so it's not denomination-specific. I would venture a guess that it was taken from one of the preachers on the TBN or INSP stations. Kind of like my favorite (not really) " Look at your neighbor and say YOUR LOOKING GOOD THIS MORNING" or some other cheesy admonishment.
Many times, I feel more inspired after a simple walk in the woods. Hate to say it. But it is exactly how I feel.
I AM RUINED!!! The Christian Classics, like Tozer, Finney, EM Bounds, Brother Lawrence, and others have ruined me. Anything less than what those men on fire preached just makes me yawn. Tozer said it best, and I paraphrase because I can't quote verbatim: " I like a church with an organ. I like to try and guess which palm tree bush the console is hiding behind when the Modernist preacher is preaching". Or something to that effect. The closest I have yet to come to a church were God is revered, and they sing the old hymns with feeling, is the Hardin County Mennonite church. Their basic creed is not wholly unlike most mainline evangelical churches. AND everone gets involved for the first half of the service, when Bible verses are expounded. I attend there sometimes and feel like I went to church instead of a Southern Gospel concert. I'll hush now before I make people mad, which is not at all my intent. But so far, I am getting here, what I cannot get at church. Just fellow brothers and sisters talking about how wonderful God is!

[Kevin Blankenship]

OH Thinker (Ron), dear brother, you have brought up a subject that burns in me. I woke up moments ago thinking about this, and went to bed least nite thinking about this. OH HOW I CRAVE TO BE IN THE BODY OF CHRIST!!!! In a local fellowship of plain people whose primary focus is absolute love for Jesus. I am sure afraid that I could not bring much to the table because I still see me for what I am: a Carnal Christian. So I am always on the lookout for people, or a person, who loves Jesus with a passion that is uncommon in today's world.!!! I want a close friend like that!! I'm not looking, nor do I expect to find, a perfect church full of perfect people, but then, I never indicated in the least, that I had such an aspiration. Just a small flock led my a true man of God, who is GOD'S PICK for the job. Not "voted in" by a bunch of hungover elders who also serve as Shriner's and Mason's the night before. Who got soused the night before.
Sometimes, I outright beg Jesus to "Please lead me to a group of people who love you intensely, and who can teach me the ways of the Faith.....who don't mind being totally candid with me about my shortcomings, but who will love me and I, them."
And still, in spite of many forays into the church world on Sundays, here I am at home.
The church's that are doing the best numerically-speaking, are the ones who look the most like the world.
I have since changed my prayer too: Oh LORD, please just let the path of a true believer and mine cross so that we can get to know one another, (So......I found this site!!!)