5 replies to this topic

[chipped china]

After reading Andrew/Ester Schaeffer's post "The only one crying" I wanted to ask a question.
How many of you believe in unattached love? A year ago I had a couple of discussions with a friend about the distress we have for our loved ones who do not know the Lord. My friend believes in this kind of love. People come in and out of our lives all the time. We make lasting impressions on each other but some times you have to move on or they do. Excluding the fact that the Lord could call them at any time, how does one come to terms with eternal separation when it appears to have happened. Unattached love is an interesting concept to me but I don't really get it. Pain and mourning are part of living, there is no getting around it but letting go and letting God has a place in our faith.

My older sister is loving and thoughtful. She doesn't live in blatant sin. On several occasions she has told me that she will never be a born again Christian. She doesn't believe Jesus is God. However she has said if He appeared in front of her she would lie down and worship Him. It appears God has hardened her heart, she may not be preordained and it's for her I mourn not myself. I know where I'm going.

[Kevin Blankenship]

Chipped China, I'm sorry for your sister, but I tell ya what: She will become the subject of much prayer. So that if it's at all possible for her to be converted, that it will happen in Jesus name!!!
I confess that part of what you have shared is troublesome to me. The part about "preordained". I am really to naive a Christian to be wise enough to tag myself as Calvinist or Arminianist now )although I assume that i fall somewhere in the middle). Do you know what the first thing that I think of when this subject of Pre-ordained is brought up: "Maybe I am just going through the motions and am not even Pre-ordained to have salvation in the first place." Please don't misunderstand, I know that your thread is NOT necessarily about the doctrine of predestination but rather "unattached love" which I admit that I will have to research to see what it even is. But that one sentence caught my eye. And to other members, please don't let my comment thow this thread off track and I am sorry for hijacking. In fact, I may even start a new thread and ask a pertinent question or two.
As for your question, ChippedChina, I know by their actions that I have sisters that are lost as a goose. One is an admitted Lesbian and outright rejects the Bible as the inspired Word (it's the only way that she can 'make it work' in her head). And another who is a person of the world and seeks after material gain with whole heartedness. I admit that I don't grieve like I should. But if I think for a few minutes about what is going to happen when they are standing before the Righteous Judge on that great day, and they are told: "Away from me, Evildoers". And the horrible fear that I can imagine is going through their minds compels me to "kick it up a notch" in the intercession department. Hope this made sense. Great thread by the way.
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[Julie Daube]

Kevin and Chipped China - I praise God that you are interceding so faithfully for your lost loved ones! I encourage you to keep praying for them and never, ever give up! God can reach even the most hardened heart. Through my work as a story gatherer at the C&MA National Office, I have known of drug lords, assassins, terrorists, and even satanists who have come to Christ through the ministry of our workers and the prayers of God's people.

Chipped China, I am praying specifically that Jesus will reveal Himself to your sister through a vision. In some parts of the world, that is how Jesus is reaching lost people: by appearing to them in dreams and visions. This is not too difficult for Him. A friend of mine came to Jesus through a vision; He appeared to her when she was high on drugs. Today, she is no longer taking drugs and is sold out for Jesus. Instead of anticipating our lost loved ones in hell, let's imagine them worshiping with us around the throne of the Lamb in heaven! Hallelujah!

As to how one deals with eternal separation when it appears to have happened, I wonder if you could clarify what you mean by that. Are you talking about someone who has already died, or someone whose heart seems completely hardened? I have known of people who have come to Christ on their deathbeds or in the hospital with a terminal illness, including my stepmother's father. His heart seemed completely hardened, but when death was imminent, all the seeds that were planted over years of loving witness came to fruition. In another case I heard of, a Christian woman was heartbroken when her apparently unsaved husband died suddenly of a heart attack. Years later, she met the person who had led her husband to Christ the night he died. When her husband came home that night, he had the heart attack before he could tell her that he had been saved.

If someone you love has died without any indication that they had accepted Christ, I still believe it's not too late to pray even then. God sees the past, present, and future all at once, because He is outside of time. I have relatives who died years before I became a Christian, so I was never able to pray for their salvation or share Christ with them while they were living. Yet I have prayed that they did accept Jesus before they died. I know that God heard that prayer years before it was ever said, because He sees the future, and He could have answered such a prayer. This may sound like a radical concept, but it may not be so radical if we truly believe that nothing is impossible for God.

Grace and peace!

[chipped china]

Thank you Kevin and Julie. As for preordained I probably shouldn't have used that word. I do believe people have the choice to believe and God knows who they are because like Julie said God doesn't live with time restraints. And I know I'm not to judge the salvation of another because also like Julie said we have no idea many times what happens between God and each person. Julie, I really enjoyed your stories they gave me comfort. I'd like to read more of them.
As for eternal separation I guess I mean the fear I feel for those who reject Jesus and live eternally in hell separated from God. I had a Baptist minister who helped root me biblical doctrine many years ago say that people who reject Christ are not sorry when they are judged, it's what they want. Those words always puzzled me but there seem to be some truth in them. I guess it all gets down to trusting our sovereign Creator and accepting that I won't understand the mind of God here and now. And perhaps that's what I mean by unattached love. Instead of falling totally apart when you lose the unsaved, you stand in the grace of Jesus trusting that His plan is perfect. And I also need to exercise intercessory prayer more often because He hears our cries.
We should be bold with meekness in our faith allowing the fragrance of Christ to be manifest through us. Dear Lord, you are the best thing that ever happened to me!!!!!!! I love the revelation and even the discipline you give me. My heart is Yours.

[Jacqueline]

Dear Chipped China,

I just want to encourage you to view yourself as Paul viewed himself in 2 Timothy 4:6: "For I am already being poured out like a drink offering." I believe we are here for attached love, the type that utters loud cries and sweats blood for the lost. We are a kingdom of priests. You are so right to agonize over the threat of eternal separation. Weep and mourn and fast for your loved ones. Pray and do not faint. Ask God to give you HIS heart for them, and to intercede through you. This is the new DNA God gave us with our new birth, to be like our firstborn big Brother, Jesus, constantly interceding. He says ask, and it shall be given you, and if we ask anything according to His will, we have it. And He is not willing that any should perish. Spend yourself, China, in tears and prayers for your lost loved ones. I am, too, and we will surely reap in joy, if we don't lose heart, for He is faithful. Lord, strengthen, call, equip, and anoint China, and all of us for this. Amen.

[chipped china]

Thank you Jacqueline, I will take what you said to heart. The Lord as spoken well through you.