Preaching and Personal Work
#1
Posted 26 June 2012 - 01:01 PM
#2
Posted 05 July 2012 - 04:34 AM
Something seems to be missing from the normal revival type evangelism I've seen. At the end of the emotional serman the preacher says something like; "bow your head, repaet this prayer, boom you're saved." Well as I read what Jesus said about enduring to the end and walking the narrow road I see that salvation does not come in a moment (except in some rare occasions on a death bed or something) it comes through a life of faithfulness. I think a better picture is Abraham who left his family and home to follow God. He stumbled, he erred and he sinned, but in the end he kept his face toward God, he grew stronger in his commitment, he was shown grace when he needed grace and over time he became faithful to his agreement with God.
#3
Posted 05 July 2012 - 05:05 PM
#4 Guest_Marvin Harrell_*
Posted 06 July 2012 - 08:04 AM
"For God so loved the world, He gave His only begotten Son". You see God loved me when I was very unlovely, He knew my name from before time began, the God of the Universe cares about and loves me!! Not for what I study, not because of what I do, not because I tithe, not because I am always faithful to my commitment, not because I understand how serious the early church was about converts, or anything I could ever do for Him. Once one realizes that Christ was sacrificed fo my sin, I thank Him for it, I know that I know that it was the real deal, then my salvation is a done deal at that instant.
I was spending some sweet time with my daughter and considered how I love her not because of anything that she has done but who she is...my little girl. And I then had this flash of a thought that God feels that for me and I can receive it because of Jesus. Nothing more, nothing less.
#5
Posted 06 July 2012 - 09:01 AM
We must believe the right things and we must do the right things. I may choose to believe the right things but choose to not do the right things. Can I be saved if I live a life of disobedience or if I refuse to repent of a sin? I don't believe scripture says so.
We cannot earn our salvation, but neither can we just believe and be saved. We must both trust Jesus and be faithful to His commands. Obedience, faithfulness and correct belief are all equal parts of the gospel and the message is incomplete without any one of them. Even a child understands they must obey their father and mother, and even a child knows if they have been cheated or if daddy is being unfaithful to mommy. So faithfulness and obedience are concepts any person can grasp.
Look at it this way, we cannot be forgiven unless we forgive no matter what we believe. God will not love us unless we obey His Son, no matter what we believe. Without holiness we will not see God, no matter what we believe. The verses that say these things must be in our theology just as the verses that say "believe" must be.
Jesus said that only those who endure to the end will be saved (Paul did too) which makes it clear we are not saved in an instant. Jesus' comparing the Christian walk to a narrow road also makes it clear that entering the Kingdom is a lifetime walk of faithfulness. As I have come to understand it we may enter into the new covenant in an instant through faith, but only those who keep faith and remain faithful are promised anything.
Now I understand you can throw out a lot of quotes and verses, but what I'm suggesting is that we view scripture as a whole and see the principles that are established from Genesis to Revelation. Forget what the reformers and all those who follow them teach for a moment. Just think of the covenants He made with Israel and the promises that God to Israel if they were faithful to Him and the covenant. The writers of the New Testament drew all their examples and lessons from those covenants and promises.
From the first Adam to the second God based His relationships with man on covenants. All those covenants had many things in common. Do this and I will keep this promise is a common thing. God said to Abraham if you do this I promise land, a child etc.. The same with Noah, build the ark you will be saved. The New Covenant is no different. If we look at the New Testament (Covenant) as a whole we see Jesus promises salvation IF we believe, repent, get baptized, love others and God, etc. Salvation is not without conditions.
“Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him” (Jn. 14:21)
It is my humble opinion that the reason the church is faltering and setting such a poor example is that we try to hard to make to easy to be a Christian. Nothing in the Bible ver says the walk with Christ will be easy. We are promised persecution and we are promised that we'll be divided from friends and family if we follow Jesus. We are told to put our hand to the plow and not to look back.
From what I see in scripture there will be grace and the Holy Spirit to help us as we walk the narrow road. However, we must walk the road, return to it if we stray and remain on it till the end.
Two last words, "Pilgrim's Progress."
#6
Posted 07 July 2012 - 05:26 AM
Yes, God made a covenant with Israel through Abraham and God swore the covanent by Himself while the man was asleep. It remains in force today, thank God. If you have any idea that Israel kept her part of the covenant and was thus justified to God because of it, I may suggest reading some of the prophets..starting with Moses, Jeremiah,Lamintations, Ezekiel, and others..but then come back to Hosea, Joel, and Amos. Israel was a stffnecked, arogant, idol worshiping, rebellious people who brought down the wrath of God on themselves, but they are still the "chosen" people and God calls them "His people".
- Thinker likes this
#7
Posted 07 July 2012 - 09:16 AM
#8
Posted 07 July 2012 - 02:40 PM
I've been reading this thread, and others, and have hesitated to weigh in with my own thoughts. Now I know why I hesitated...so that you could write down my own thoughts so much better than I could have done. So, I shall add my Amen to all that you have said on this subject.
I was raised going to church, a Nazarene church which is Arminian and Holiness in theology. I then ventured far and deep into the world, and away from the church. God's Grace and His Holy Spirit drew me back. I turned my back yet again to His Grace, but instead of leaving church again...I embraced a very strong form of legalistic thought, action and judgementalism. I turned into an even uglier person than I had been when I was so far away from God....for I was going against Him while professing Him. Talk about grieving the Holy Spirit.
But thanks be to God, and He is long-suffering with us, and that I can never be seperated from His Love, His Grace, or His Mercy. God is so very patient with us all. I don't understand election, or predestination, or how works works or doesn't work...but I do know that my Redeemer lives, and that because He lives, I also live. God will indeed finish the work He has begun, because He has promised that He will. It is God Who works in me to will and to act according to His good purpose, and Paul stated so well this idea that all the "works" that he accomplished were not of his own effort, but were the Power of God working in him, and they all took place after that little encounter he had on the Damascus road.
May we all celebrate in the Lord, and Praise Him for His Grace and Mercy.
In Christ,
Travis
#9
Posted 17 July 2012 - 08:40 AM
One more slight thing here. The New covenant is NOT the new Testiment. The New Covenant is FOUND in the New Testiment in several places. I like the New Covenant as stated in Heb. 8:10-12. It is repeated in Heb 10:12-18. The new covenant is even found in the Old Testiment, and though I haven`t looked at it there in a while, you may find it in Ezekiel 37:26-28. The New Covenant is very specific and easy to understand. If one ascribes the whole New Testiment as the New Covenant, it all become too general and cumbersome.
Good thoughts. I would only say one other thing, New Testament and New Covenant are the same. They have the same meaning and the two terms are interchangable. I understand what you are saying though (it all become too general and cumbersome) and I think we just need to understand the covenant is easy. We enter into it by faith we stay in it by faithfulness. All the words the apostles wrote just fill in the blanks for those that need them filled in.
#10
Posted 17 July 2012 - 10:30 AM
#11
Posted 19 July 2012 - 04:12 AM
#12
Posted 19 July 2012 - 06:53 AM
May God bless you and yours,
Charlie