15 replies to this topic

[Kevin Blankenship]

And I wonder if I am the only one that is troubled by this.  I see that Jesus will pull the twelve disciples away and discourse with them, while leaving the crowds to (seemingly, to me anyway) wonder what they are talking about.  Here is a 'for instance':  And the disciples came, and said unto him, 'Why speakest thou unto them in parables?' He answered and said unto them, 'Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.'

   I'll find some more and post them here.  This is not up for debate. I am seeking instruction. That is all. It is NOT a loaded question.  As I read through the Gospels, I am trying to understand if what Jesus is saying applies to me, or merely applies to the Twelve.

   Am I alone on this? Has anyone ever wondered about this?   I appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks.......kevin

[chipped china]

This is from the Blue Letter Bible site. He man can say it much better than me!

Brought to you with permission of Don Stewart, the Bible Explorer



One of the methods Jesus employed in communicating His message was through parables. A parable is basically an earthly story with a heavenly meaning. When Jesus started telling parables to the people, His disciples asked the obvious question, "Why do You speak to them in parables?" (Matthew 13:10).

Jesus Gives A Revealing Answer

Jesus' answer to the question was quite revealing.


Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given . . . . And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: 'Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, and seeing you will see and not perceive, for the heart of this people has grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, lest they should understand with their heart and turn, so that I should heal them' (Matthew 13:11,14,15).

Unwillingness on the part of the people to receive Jesus' message of the kingdom was the reason that He taught in parables. The truths of the kingdom of God were heard by them but not understood. It was not because God was hiding the truth from them-it was because they did not want to hear.

They Had The Chance To Believe

This points to a great truth. God has given the people every chance to accept the message of Jesus. His ministry was attested by miracles. He offered the proper credentials as the Messiah, yet they did not believe Him. The realities of the kingdom, therefore, were not theirs to know. The people who believed in Jesus as the Messiah would understand the parables. They would comprehend the great truths of the kingdom of God.

They Are To Be Understood Spiritually

Some years later the Apostle Paul would echo the same truth:


But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known they would not have crucified the Lord of glory . . . For what man knows the things of man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God . . . But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned (1 Corinthians 2:7,8,11,14).

Most People Were Not Interested In The Truth

The truth of God is to be understood spiritually. The great majority of the people in Jesus' day were not interested in God's truth. Jesus clearly said,


Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand (Matthew 13:13).

[noah22x]

Brother, all the time. "It is not meet to take the children's bread and cast it to the dogs." That one really upset me for a long while. Glory to God that we are troubled.

[Charles Miles]

Does it still continue to upset you noah?

[Speilb]

I don't have time to get into my thoughts on the subject right now but I want to say that I really like the question.  Many people will read the Word and skip over parts they don't understand.  Others dismiss these parts wondering if someone got it wrong in translation.  Others read the Bible like Muslims read the Koran and don't feel any freedom to ask a question (which in our faith is wildly counterproductive since a major purpose of Scripture is so we can understand the mind of our God). 

 

Instead of the previous options I listed, you, believing that God wants us to understand his Perfect Word, asked a very good question.  I hope some good answers are brought forward here and more importantly that through whatever means God Himself answers your question.  The great reward of the seeker is finding.  Thanks for bringing up a great question. 

[Kevin Blankenship]

Does it still continue to upset you noah?

It does me.  But then Jesus heals a Centurion's servant after the Centurion compare himself, and his authority, to that of Jesus'.  Jesus then proclaims to the surrounding listeners.  Here is the incidence:  When Jesus returned to Capernaum, a centurion came up to him and begged him repeatedly, "Sir, my servant is lying at home paralyzed and in terrible pain." Jesus told him, "I will come and heal him." The centurion replied, "Sir, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed, because I, too, am a man under authority and I have soldiers under me. I say to one of them 'Go' and he goes, to another 'Come' and he comes, and to my servant 'Do this' and he does it." When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and told those who were following him, "I tell all of you with certainty, not even in Israel have I found this kind of faith!

   But there seems to be a pattern that emerges on each of these incidences.  Both of the non-Jewish people who were requestion Jesus's aid where (A) Asking on behalf of someone else.  and (B) They each had good, wise, replies.   Jesus told the woman, to whom He had just said: "It is not good to take the children's bread and give it to the dogs."  After she made her reply, Jesus said: Then Jesus answered her, "Lady, your faith is great! What you want is granted." That very hour her daughter was healed.

    I am seeing a pattern emerge here.  Jesus didn't seem to necessarily respond, many times, and from Non-Jewish supplicants. to simple requests to heal etc etc.  But if those supplicants had a wise answer on WHY Jesus should act on their behalf........then He was more than happy to fulfill their need. (for lack of a better word.) 

   I have thought about this in times past, when praying.  That perhaps Jesus is still the same in this regard and that our WORDS to Him can indicate whether we have sufficient faith or not.  I think that it was odd (or curious, or revealing) that Jesus could take the words that the lady said: She said, "Yes, Lord. But even the puppies eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' tables."  and see in those words, a FAITH.  It's a real study in the life of Jesus and how he approaches non-Jews and their needs.  I think that y'all have given me a subject-study today. (I can hope that anything that I said makes a lick of sense. Hope it does......or I just typed alot for nothing. Well, not NOTHING.  Cause, I got my question answered partially, but my curiosity has been peaked.

[Charles Miles]

Kevin,

 

Again let me say that I am certainly no theologian or Bible scholar, so maybe someone with a ThD will not see what I see in these incidents.  But, here is what I see and how I apply it to my life.

 

The active thing taught here is faith.  Faith that Jesus is indeed who he says he is and has the power to do what he says he can do. The soldier did not feel worthy to even have Jesus come to his home where the sick servant was, even though Jesus had agreed to go there.  His faith told him that Jesus had the authority to do what he was going to do(heal the servant) without ever even taking a step toward the soldier`s home.  God`s omnipotence and sovereignty extends over all creation, so the soldier had faith that this is so.  We who study this story need to hear the soldier`s reasoning so we can understand somewhat, but Jesus could see into the soldier`s heart, and knew he had great faith.

 

The lady in the latter story was asking why Jesus was doing most all of His work with the Jews.  Well, that was where He was to start His ministry.....with God`s people who were chosen to be His children.  The conversation simply reflects the terminology of the day in the reference to "dogs".  The jews called all people who were not jews, dogs.  One teacher I had suggested that if the term offends, simply change it to non-jew, or gentile.  The lady knew, by faith, that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, and therefore had the ability to do whatever He chose, with whomever He chose to do it.  She had a very deep faith that told her that this man, this Messiah, was for everyone...a savior for all mankind on the earth.  Maybe His ministry at that particular time was to the jews, but eventually it would spread to all....and since God does not live in time, why not ask for what you need when you actually meet the Living God?

 

God loves us all, but some do not accept that fact, so they continue to live without the benefit of God`s lovingkindness....even though it is available.  True faith activates blessings that are already just hanging there...waiting to be ours.   Maybe my take on these two situations is not theologically correct, but it is what I take home from these incidents.  Both these stories just bless me to the core and tell me that God will "go out of his way" to bless those with faith.  He did it with these two gentiles at a time when His main ministry was for the jews......simply because they had faith.

 

God will always do what He said He would do,

 

Charlie

[Kevin Blankenship]

Charlie, what actually opened your eyes to the  Love of Christ? I am just curious. I think that I have been searching for the very thing. It always eludes.

[noah22x]

Jesus delivers perfectly. I receive poorly. I am sure He will complete His good work in me. Kevin asked if he was alone in his toil. He is not, and that he toils so, is evidence to me that he is also very much companioned by His Spirit. I wish to call attention to the slendor of that, His very Presence with us. Glory to God, that we are troubled.

[scottfairchild]

Thanks for posting this question Noah.  

 

I have one thought behind why only Jesus hid the truth.  Jesus' main mission on earth was to redeem humanity through His sacrifice on the cross.  If the religious leaders and the people of the day understood the truth of who He was, they would not have crucified Him.   That we would be redeemed, He hid the truth for us!  Now the truth of Jesus is wide spread among the gentiles, but the truth is coming to the Jewish people.  One day the Jewish people will have full understanding of who He is.

 

"For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, 'BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!'"      Matthew 23:39

[Charles Miles]

Kevin,

 

I hope and pray that I might tell you something of value here, but maybe this revelation is different to different people...but I think not.  When we ask the Lord to reveal Himself to us, He will.  Maybe all my life I was not ready or at a point to hear what He said in answer to that question, but there came a time and a situation where I had to listen to what He had to say. It was a total shock and an experience that changed me forever.

 

A few years ago I was at a point of total desperation with my life and to a point that I was being crushed by situations far beyond my ability to do anything. Life simply became not worth the effort because there was no humanly way out. Let me say now that the situation was not the sudden death of my wife of 40 years on our son`s wedding day.  I will say this though....had this not already have happened, her death would have destroyed me, she was the anchor of the family for years and had a very close walk with the Lord.  Her walk was so close to Him that I now look back and am amazed at how I totally missed His presence in our home.  Anyway, you asked, so now I`ll try to explain....

 

One night, late, after no sleep, I went out into our back yard because I was so troubled I simply did not know what to do(2AM).  I had been a "Christian" since age 9 and I had this God and this Jesus but got no peace from either in my daily life.  The walls were closing in and the deep hole I was in was filling up with me on the bottom. I considered myself a "good" man and always tried to do the right thing in everyday life, but somehow that seemed to make no difference.  I lost hope and knew something was eating me from the inside, but I had no idea what it was or what I could do...except to just give up and die.  Let me add here that I was a Sunday school teacher and was very active in our church at the time. At no time was I suicidal or had any wish to harm myself...I just had run out of hope.    I fell on my knees and looked up into a canopy of stars that seemed to stretch from horizon to horizon, then I asked God for help.  Not just the Sunday morning prayer we have all used, but a deep, soul deep, cry that was beyond any words or human language.  I`m talking about a groaning, pleading, falling on your face, very, very earnest cry to the God of the universe.  I was weak, unworthy, sinful, and I knew it, but I asked for His help...and asked for Him to just take me if He wouldn`t give me the help.  I knew I didn`t deserve Him even looking at me, but He was the only one big enough to do what I needed done.  I told Him I knew about Him and that I went to church, taught SS, and that my wife knew Him.  Now I have never heard the audible voice of God(although I would really like to), but a sensation, an inner "knowing" in my soul started to talk to me..and here is what I heard.  "I am glad you finally got here Charlie.  I`ve been waiting for this moment for a long time.  Yes, you know ABOUT me, but you don`t know ME". "I have known you forever and I love you....yes, you with all your faults and messes.  Do you understand that knowing ABOUT me just won`t get it?  What I have always wanted from you is a RELATIONSHIP.  I want us to be close, so close that I live in you, around you, and allow you to depend upon Me. All you have to do is ask for this relationship and it is yours....better than that....it is OURS!"  Now, I ask you....where do you go after a conversation such as that??  By this time I was flat on the ground and all my clothes were wet with dew.   I could only muster up enough energy, guts, or what ever, to say...but I don`t deserve anything like that.  The inner voice then said..."I know that better than you, but here`s the thing, I LOVE YOU MORE THAN YOU CAN EVER IMAGINE, you can`t comprehend the enormity of My love for you.  I am infinite and My love for you is infinite.  Give me all this baggage, this worry, this hurt....I`ll take it all and give you a peace you cannot fathom.  You can live in my Kingdom and I`ll make you my child.  You can have all the benefits of being a child of mine, so if you need to discuss anything with Me, you can call Me ABBA(daddy) and I`m already there with you".

 

Now I could go on, but I want to ask if anyone else has had this happen?  If this happened to you would it change your life?  Would it open your eyes to the love God has for us?  I got up off the ground about 6AM.  Other things were discussed, but the post is too long already so I`ll end by saying that the love of God is real, it is huge, it is already all around us and all we need to do is to reach out, confess, repent, and ask for a relationship with God the Father.  You don`t even have to ask for this relationship if you don`t understand what it is.  He will offer it if you just tell Him you must have Him in your life. 

 

The whole process of allowing this relationship to exist has already been accomplished by Jesus and His sacrifice.  IT IS ALL DONE!!!  There is no way we could ever do this without Jesus, but He showed us the love of the Father by doing the work that HAD to be done for us.

 

Does this answer your question Kevin?  It is the only way I know how to answer what you asked.

 

A child of God due to the grace of God,

 

Charlie

[Kevin Blankenship]

Yes, Charlie. It answers it very very well.  I am now at that place you described. Misery untold.  I am not indulging any gross sins. But much of the time, I feel as though I am in a deep dark place and it seems to come in cycles.  And each time is more difficult than the last to get up from. 

  I have had ZERO.....ABSOLUTE zero motivation and ambition. I have went to my prayer closet (my yard, after dark) with this. There must be more in store for me until I reach that ......place?......where God can actually interevene and give me life.

   Of course, Charles, I try to complicate things. I consider clinical depression. (???? How would that fit in)  I consider it a genetic thing. (My father, a physician, would go DEEEEEEEEEEP into the abyss.......sadly.......around tax-time.  He was, for a while, before salvation, dreadfully hooked on beeing UBER: FRUGAL (okay, he was the tightwad to end all tight wads). 

  I had several uncles on my mother's side who just gave up and died of alcohol poisoning or cirrhosis of the liver. 

  I have presented these cases to the Lord when I was trying to help Him to help me come to the  end of myself.  I realize that I just opened myself up to remarks such as: "Ya cannot help God, Kevin!!!"  And I know that now. Because I got nowhere with it. I hear preachers........old preachers who have passed on (through their writings) talk about this having a fresh revelation of the Love of Jesus being a starting point of their effective service.....or even effective worshipping.  Every single night, I go out, and I pray, and I expect that I will have some type of epiphany where I say: "Ah yes, there it is, right before me this whole time. How did I miss it. I truly am loved by God".   But it has YET to happen. We are all different, with different levels of "stiff-necked-ness".  Perhaps, there-in lies the answer and the reason that I have not experienced this revelation.  I am totally open to it. But something (in me) is holding it back.  I look for little 'pet-sins' that might quench the spirit. But I don't seem to be a bad sort. I love to see other people happy. It makes me happy. To see others happy.  (This post will end up going in cirles if don't clip it off right here)  But Charles, thank you for casting you pearls in this direction.  I will not trample them nor will I turn and rend you. But I WILL say this:  I envy you and your close walk with the Lord.  But not in a 'mean-hearted' way. But in a good way.  Thanks again, over and over.   kevin

[seekingsonlit]

I wouldn't presume to "instruct" but I have struggled with the questions you raised and glady share how I am coming to terms with it in my own life.

 

I have also struggled with how/if I can personally apply specific passages when they are directed to others. 

 

I like the allegory from the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe (book, not movie), where Aslan tells an evesdropping Lucy that she only needs to know her "story" and she may never understand someone else's. 

 

In my mind, it goes along with Acts 1:7 (KJV) “ And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.” and the times that Jesus warned people not to speak of a particular miracle (Matt 8:4, 16:20, Mk 7:36, Mk 8:30, Lk 5:14, 8:56, etc) and specifically Mark 9:9 when He charged them to “tell no man”, until He was risen from the dead.

 

Perhaps there is a possible, partial explanation in John 6:15 (KJV): “When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.”  Perhaps he knew that the more people saw his true power, the more they would expect (demand?) him to act like the earthly king/messiah they were expecting. 

Or Mark 7:36 (KJV) where he takes someone aside to heal him and “He charged them that they should tell no man: but the more He charged them, so much the more a great deal they published it;”.   Perhaps the more the stories were spread the more people would gather for the spectacle and provide further distraction and obstacles when He was so aware of the shortness of the time.

It does seem that Jesus often removed himself from the crowds to spend time with his smaller group of disciples.  As those chosen few were privileged to share in deeper insights, their responsibilities were increased. 

 

In my own life, there have been times when as much as I thought I wanted an answer or deeper understanding, in retrospect, I would not have been able to accept or understand a truth that now seems self evident. 

 

(As Paul explains in I Corinthians 3:2  “I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.”)

 

After decades of study, there are still things that I do not understand and although I still seek answers, wisdom and clarity, it may not be for me to understand.   Although some passages still trouble me, the more I know of God’s character, the more I can relax in the knowledge that He is always to true to His character whether I understand the how and why, or not.

[Candice]

Kevin
I believe (and I could be wrong) but Jesus had already been rejected as savior by Israel so, Jesus was now preaching to his inner circle. But anyone who believes - this applied

My understanding of it is probably simplistic. The mysteries - at least the biggest is christ dying in our place. Then, the others follow

[DonnaA]

good thread ... thanks for sharing your testimony, Charlie

 

I understand the struggles ... and the rewards of "knowing" with the heart, not just the mind (which I can only "know in part" anyways).

[radar]

Charles, I thank you for the "long" post because that is exactly where I am now. But I also know that this season will pass and it was good to hear the encouraging words. I just wish your post was longer because there is much more there than you so eloquently stated. That heartfelt prayer when we all come to the end of ourselves and into the knowledge of Jesus. My pastor is at the same place. After a year he was about to throw in the towel because everything was falling apart in his seeking of God. So he prayed that God would personally reveal that He is real to him (my pastor who lost his memory).....the next day, he got a call from a ministry who bought our old building and is allowing us to stay and use it for worship and the children's ministry. He knew that it was God who heard his prayer.

 

  When I heard that, I heard in my spirit it was time to pay him a visit. I did and we were reconciled. The old ministry and fellowship has been saved and cleansed. But I still need the new pastor and fellowship also as the new pastor is a seasoned man of God who teaches line by line, precept upon precept.

 

  So yes, there is one here who needed to hear that and the remedy. I am grateful for your post.

 

Shalom,

Chris