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Safety at places of worship


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#1 Charles Miles

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 08:24 PM

After several gun attacks in churches over the past few months, our church has adopted a safety team and a plan for keeping worshipers safe. This includes roudy behavior. uncontrollable young people, and also shootings. Although we have had none of this so far, we want to plan ahead. We have a 3 person safety team on duty each Sunday, they have radios, and are stationed in areas where they can see or hear any problems. They are trained in controlling situations so that minimal force,if any, is used.  We have signs posted on entrances stating that no weapons are allowed on the church property

  Here is my question and concern....some of our members do not want any of the security force armed,,,at all. Now that we have the "no weapons allowed" signs visible and word gets around that the security force has no weapons, is that a safe situation? I do find having guns in church is not what I would have envisioned 20 years ago, the climate and situation has changed. We saw last week a man shooting up a church in Texas and thank God one of the security team had a gun and used it effectively. 

  What are some opinions on armed security(trained) people (concealed carry) to be on duty during worship services. Also, if none of these people are on duty, is it a good idea to post signs telling everyone that there are no weapons anywhere in the church?

 

  This is becoming more of a issue in downtown churches open to the public during services.



#2 tmjbog@gmail.com

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 08:17 AM

I'm not sure what good unarmed security would be other than to remove rowdy teenagers.  I don't think strong words will be very effective against a someone hyped up on meth getting stabby with the congregation.  Announcing to the world that you operate a gun free zone makes it easy for those looking for easy targets.  At the bare minimum I would not advertise that fact.


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#3 Charles Miles

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 10:13 AM

Same thought I had.  A gun free zone simply tells a would be shooter that they can expect no weapons to be in the church. The rationale used by the lady who proposed the sign was that anyone noted to be armed in the church would be asked to leave for trespassing.  We can do that already! I am concerned about the anti-gun people, who do mean well, just don`t understand that criminals will not obey the signs or laws.  The police station is only 300 yards from the church`s front door, but in a "trial run", it took them 30 min to respond. In the Texas shooting 2 wks ago, the time from the first shot to the termination of the event was 6 seconds. Three people were shot during that time. I`m not sure I could have responded that quickly even if I had my weapon drawn, but I would expect it would not take 30 min.

 

 It is a sad time when we have to discuss shootings in churches here in the USA.



#4 Tkulp

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 04:06 PM

My first thought, when I read this post was, “What does church safety have to do with the ‘Deeper Life’”?

 

As I prayed and meditated, I was reminded of the promises of God's Word for blessing and safety to those that obey, as well as the curses and punishment on those who do not follow God’s way of righteousness and obedience.

 

May I attempt to shed some light, from my thoughts, that might bring this subject under the absolute necessity of having a ‘Deeper Life’ in Jesus Christ, from the heart of God, His Word?

 

 

 

Leviticus 25:18 says, “You must obey my statutes and my regulations; you must be sure to keep them so that you may live securely in the land. In Leviticus 26 God shares both the blessings, that come with obedience, and the curses, that come by following other gods, the gods of this world and disobedience.

 

Does this apply to the New Testament believers? For me it does, as well as all the verses that tell me that God is a strong tower to those who trust Him and run to him as their one and only God (source of safety and protection).

 

Hebrews 5:7 tells us about Jesus and His relationship with the Father; how it kept Him safe until it was time for Him to be our sacrifice according to the will of the Father. There is power in a true relationship with the Father.

 

Very sadly most ‘believers’ today are missing the relationship; they only have a confession without repentance and Holiness.

 

 

Paul spoke to Timothy about the people of the last days.

 

“But understand this, that in the last days will come (set in) perilous times of great stress and trouble [hard to deal with and hard to bear].

 

For people will be lovers of self and [utterly] self-centered, lovers of money and aroused by an inordinate [greedy] desire for wealth, proud and arrogant and contemptuous boasters. They will be abusive (blasphemous, scoffing), disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy and profane.

 

[They will be] without natural [human] affection (callous and inhuman), relentless (admitting of no truce or appeasement); [they will be] slanderers (false accusers, troublemakers), intemperate and loose in morals and conduct, uncontrolled and fierce, haters of good.

 

[They will be] treacherous [betrayers], rash, [and] inflated with self-conceit. [They will be] lovers of sensual pleasures and vain amusements more than and rather than lovers of God.

For [although] they hold a form of piety (true religion), they deny and reject and are strangers to the power of it [their conduct belies the genuineness of their profession]. Avoid [all] such people [turn away from them].

 

For among them are those who worm their way into homes and captivate silly and weak-natured and spiritually dwarfed women, loaded down with [the burden of their] sins [and easily] swayed and led away by various evil desires and seductive impulses.

 

[These weak women will listen to anybody who will teach them]; they are forever inquiring and getting information, but are never able to arrive at a recognition and knowledge of the Truth.”

 

2 Timothy 3:1-7 Amplified

 

Jesus did tell a disciple to bring a sword, but he did not tell him to use it. When he did use it, Jesus healed the man that was injured.

Proverbs 21:31 “The horse is prepared for the day of battle, but deliverance and victory are of the Lord.

Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back in its place!  For all who take hold of the sword will die by the sword.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Isaiah Chapter 50

 

“Thus says the Lord: Where is the bill of your mother’s divorce with which I put her away, O Israel? Or which of My creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities you were sold, and for your transgressions was your mother put away.

2 Why, when I came, was there no man? When I called, why was there no one to answer? Is My hand shortened at all, that it cannot redeem? Or have I no power to deliver? Behold, at My rebuke I dry up the sea, I make the rivers a desert; their fish stink because there is no water, and they die of thirst.

3 I clothe the heavens with [the] blackness [of murky storm clouds], and I make sackcloth [of mourning] their covering.

4 [The Servant of God says] The Lord God has given Me the tongue of a disciple and of one who is taught, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him who is weary. He wakens Me morning by morning, He wakens My ear to hear as a disciple [as one who is taught].

5 The Lord God has opened My ear, and I have not been rebellious or turned backward.

6 I gave My back to the smiters and My cheeks to those who plucked off the hair; I hid not My face from shame and spitting. [Matt. 26:67; 27:30; John 19:1.]

7 For the Lord God helps Me; therefore have I not been ashamed or confounded. Therefore have I set My face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be put to shame. [Luke 9:51; Isa. 52:13; 53:10-12.]

8 He is near Who declares Me in the right. Who will contend with Me? Let us stand forth together! Who is My adversary? Let him come near to Me. [Rom. 8:33-35; I Tim. 3:16.]

9 Behold, the Lord God will help Me; who is he who will condemn Me? Behold, they all will wax old and be worn out as a garment; the moth will eat them up. [Heb. 1:11, 12.]

10 Who is among you who [reverently] fears the Lord, who obeys the voice of His Servant, yet who walks in darkness and deep trouble and has no shining splendor [in his heart]? Let him rely on, trust in, and be confident in the name of the Lord, and let him lean upon and be supported by his God.

11 Behold, all you [enemies of your own selves] who attempt to kindle your own fires [and work out your own plans of salvation], who surround and gird yourselves with momentary sparks, darts, and firebrands that you set aflame!—walk by the light of your self-made fire and of the sparks that you have kindled [for yourself, if you will]! But this shall you have from My hand: you shall lie down in grief and in torment. [Isa. 66:24.]”

 

 

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“Your conduct must be free from the love of money and you must be content with what you have, for he has said, "I will never leave you and I will never abandon you." So we can say with confidence, "The Lord is my helper, and I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?" Remember your leaders, who spoke God's message to you; reflect on the outcome of their lives and imitate their faith.

 

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever!”

Hebrews 13:5-8


 

Acts 5:1-15 gives us a picture of what the power of God and the fear of God looked like in the Early Church. 

 

Act 5:11  And great fear and awe gripped the whole church, and all who heard about these things.
 

Act 5:13  But none of the rest [of the people, the non-believers] dared to associate with them; however, the people were holding them in high esteem and were speaking highly of them.

 



#5 Charles Miles

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 10:31 AM

Thank you for your input tkulp. Sometimes guarding the flock takes different actions. No one wants to carry weapons to a worship service, but sometimes,rarelt\y, it could be needed. As I recall, David killed a lion and a bear but not because he was hunting for them. He was protecting the flock of sheep from slaughter. No matter how good and obedient the sheep were, they were about to be killed by animals with a mindset to kill them. Also when David was choosing his men to fight, he was told by the Lord to choose those few who remained armed and vigilant even when drinking water. Nehemiah even had his people building the wall to remain very close to their spears and to have lookouts posted.

 The ideas of keeping the flock safe are not new ones at all, but due to recent events, a church leader would not be like Nehemiah`s workers if he/she didn`t take recent events under consideration. 



#6 Tkulp

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 12:38 AM

The LORD watches from heaven; he sees all people. From the place where he lives he looks carefully at all the earth's inhabitants.

 

He is the one who forms every human heart, and takes note of all their actions.

 

No king is delivered by his vast army; a warrior is not saved by his great might. A horse (or weapon) disappoints those who trust in it for victory; despite its great strength, it cannot deliver.

 

Look, the LORD takes notice of his loyal followers, those who wait for him to demonstrate his faithfulness by saving their lives from death and sustaining them during times of famine.

 

We wait for the LORD; he is our deliverer and shield. For our hearts rejoice in him, for we trust in his holy name. May we experience your faithfulness, O LORD, for we wait for you.


Psalms 33:13-22

 



#7 Charles Miles

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 01:10 AM

I hear you but the shepherd still must guard his flock.  That is the purpose of a shepherd. I don`t know where you attend church, but we actually expect sinners to come to our church, allow them to hear the gospel, then they can understand what a loving God has done for them.  "All have sinned and come short of the glory of the Lord", we know what He offers them and us, but attempting to keep people safe enough to hear the word is a job shepherds must accept.


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#8 Tkulp

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 09:28 AM

"My people have become lost sheep; Their shepherds have led them astray. They have made them turn aside [to the seductive places of idolatry] on the mountains.  (You cannot serve God and mammon [money, possessions, fame, status, or whatever is valued more than the Lord]. Matthew 6:24 Amplified)

 

They have gone along [from one sin to another] from mountain to hill; They have forgotten their [own] resting place.

 

[Isa. 53:6; 1Pe. 2:25 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we may cease from sinning and live for righteousness.]
 

Amplified Bible  Jeremiah 50:6

 

 

 

 

 

The LORD says, "I will put a curse on people who trust in mere human beings, who depend on mere flesh and blood for their strength, and whose hearts have turned away from the LORD.
 

Jeremiah 17:5

 

 

 

 

Acts 5:1-15 gives us a picture of what the power of God and the fear of God looked like in the Early Church.

 

Act 5:11  And great fear and awe gripped the whole church, and all who heard about these things.
 

Act 5:13  But none of the rest [of the people, the non-believers] dared to associate with them; however, the people were holding them in high esteem and were speaking highly of them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then he (Jesus) said to them all, “If anyone wants to become my follower, he must deny himself, take up his cross daily, and follow me.
 
For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will save it.

For what does it benefit a person if he gains the whole world but loses or forfeits himself? 

Luke 9:23-25



#9 Charles Miles

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 12:10 PM

Great quotes from the Bible. Unfortunately they have nothing to do with attempting to protect worshipers from deranged or "drugged up" people who enter the church just to kill and maim. The problem here is that we welcome sinners into our church so that they may hear the gospel and possibly repent of their sins and be saved. The purpose of the church is to spread the gospel, not hide it and keep telling it to those who are already in a relationship with the Lord.  So....there are stangers entering our sanctuary each week that we have yet to meet and talk with about Jesus. On a rare occasion one of these people we don`t know could enter for reasons other than wanting to hear the good news about Jesus, be armed, and decide to become violent.  The question becomes, what to do to possibly prevent such a happening and if such an event happens, what measures are appropriate at that time.

  I do not really get what you are suggesting with your posts.  God will shield everyone in the room and not allow anyone to be shot or to be killed? Recent events have shown this not to be the case. We are not wanting to be aggressive and go out to kill and maim, but simply wanting to provide the a safe place to worship and teach the Word. 

  I am not saying that the scriptures you posted are not true, for they are, but maybe not relevant to the problem being discussed. What is being done in your church to help prevent active shooters to invade your congregation?


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#10 Tkulp

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 01:29 AM

From my past communication with you, Charlie, I cannot believe that you, short of a miracle of the Holy Spirit, will ever see the relevance of anything that I have shared or share with you. You have mocked at my use of Scripture in the past.  It is encouraging to find that you have not done so this time.

 

 

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14

 

 

 You are to be highly pitied; I continue to pray for you and give you the Word of God. 

 

 

“But if your eye is diseased, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!”   Matthew 6:23

 

 

The biggest problem that keeps us from communicating is that you, in the past, did not believe in the power of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ to put the natural man to death completely and be born again spiritually; A holiness that does not practice sin. In terms of a plant, one that always produces healthy fruit without disease.

 

 

The person that is born again, for real, has been grafted into the vine, Jesus Christ, making them one with Him. They are not only one in Him, but He is One, in them, as the sap of the vine, the Holy Spirit, begins to flow into and through them, as a river of life. John 14, 15 and 17.

 

 

The branch produces fruit very naturally without any effort on the part of the branch, except to maintain the flow of the sap, the Holy Spirit.

 

 

It was by the fruit of the anointing of the Holy Spirit that Jesus cast out demons, forgave sins, healed, etc. It was by the same Holy Spirit that Ananias and his wife Sapphira dropped dead in Acts 5. The New Testament is full of examples of the presence of, and the operation of, the Holy Spirit and Power.

 

 

If you ever grew grapes or grafted buds into root stock you will know that there are many different factors that can stop a graft as well as hinder the branch from producing a volume of quality fruit.

 

 

“Then the disciples came to him and said, "Why do you speak to them in parables?" He replied, "You have been given the opportunity to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but they have not. For whoever has will be given more, and will have an abundance. But whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. For this reason I speak to them in parables: Although they see they do not see, and although they hear they do not hear nor do they understand.”

 

 

“And concerning them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: 'You will listen carefully yet will never understand, you will look closely yet will never comprehend. For the heart of this people has become dull; they are hard of hearing, and they have shut their eyes, so that they would not see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.' “

 

Matthew 13:10-15



#11 Charles Miles

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 05:12 AM

Still, I can see no relevance in your posts about a problem that was presented. The scripture you post is true and would be relevant if discussing the actions of Holy Spirit filled people. The problem is those not filled with the Holy Spirit that can enter a church with the evil intent of doing harm to the worshipers.  The people intending harm do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them and probably are not there to receive it. 

 

Do I think the Holy Spirit can change people for the better? Yes. If everyone was Holy Spirit filled, we would have no problem with church security. People who enter who are mentally disturbed, severely radical, or on drugs can cause death for people simply there for worship and that is the problem,

 

Again I will ask what you do in your church to protect against such situations?


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#12 BHerr

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 09:21 AM

It would seem that what tkulp may be trying to say hinges on this verse he shared, prefaced by the verse that talks about the display of the power of God in their midst:

Act 5:13 But none of the rest [of the people, the non-believers] dared to associate with them; however, the people were holding them in high esteem and were speaking highly of them.

So,is tkulp implying that our services/assemblies do not resemble those in the New Testament? That maybe we are supposed to be an assembly of holy people where unrepentant individuals feel uncomfortable, instead of an evangelistic gathering where sinners feel welcome? Do they feel welcome because the "gospel" we are sharing with them is that they can never be free from their sin, but Jesus' blood covers them anyway?

A church full of individuals set free from sin that assemble in the power of the Holy Spirit to worship and edify one another is an awesome presence to experience. I would expect this would make even the demons tremble.

Following this reasoning, it would seem that the demons present in drugged or deranged individuals would not dare approach such an assembly...except possibly to beg for mercy like when Jesus confronted the men on the other side of the lake in the region of the Gaderenes (Matt 8).

I guess that might be how the discussion about safety in church could have something to do with the deeper life.

Could it be that our safety is more appropriately maintained in the realm we cannot see than with guns? Are our shepherds ensuring that the Holy Spirit is always present in our midst...by making all other spirits unwelcome through sound teaching and the obedience of the sheep?

This type of thinking leads to certain implications concerning those congregations that have been attacked...which is not a very nice thought...only God can judge...

However, as powerful and cruel as the Romans were in Jesus time and as violent and the demon possessed were in His time, the Bible not once records any situation where any assembly with Jesus ever faced massacre. In fact, now that I think on it...the closest it ever came was on the night of His betrayal...the power of the Holy Spirit made the attackers fall down...though they had a sword present at the Lord's direction, the sword wasn't what protected them. Jesus yielded Himself to them for our salvation anyway while ensuring that everyone else escaped unharmed...without the sword.

I think, for my part...I would rather make sure of the powers that are unseen in my life...giving more attention to my relationship with and reliance on the Holy Spirit rather than choosing to rely on the speed, attention, and skill of someone with a handgun.

I hope these thoughts encourage someone to consider the critical importance of pursuing a deeper life...I know I will...God bless.

#13 Candice

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 12:50 PM

Maybe this passage simply and briefly instructs:
Reference Luke 22:36 read on your own in context.

"He said to them, 'But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one."

I see no other passage instructing. But this may only be about fulfillment of prophecy.

Evil can be taken out. My friend struggled with the 911 backlash. She objected to the US taking out terrorists. I asked my friend if a Muslim terrorist had her four year old son with a gun to his head would she want the Navy Seal sharp shooter to take his life to save her son. She said "I don't know". Good grief. take him out. It's simple to choose on this for me.
Sometimes you gotta know without a verse ....
1 Corinthians 6:2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases?
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#14 Candice

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 02:29 PM

Charlie,
I'm sad for the seemingly endless attacks on your faith. The Lord knows and He does see.

Paul's defense of such attacks, 1 Cor 4:3. But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human [a]court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. 4For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord.

#15 Charles Miles

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 02:39 PM

I do not know of any first century church services that were slaughtered, but then I don`t think we have all the information on meetings held in the Roman tunnels beneath the city. I do know that Christians were captured, bound, and set on fire to light Roman streets during the first and second centuries. Where the authorities captured them is not recorded. Most "churches" were in home meetings and did not number near the number of people in today`s large congregations. 

  I will not pass any judgement upon Christians of that time as to whether they were all filled with the Holy Spirit or not, but I might assume since they often met in secret and against the law, they probably had more Christian zeal than the average congregation here in the USA today. Interesting to bring up the number or percentage of congregants who are Spirit filled as a possible reason maybe to not protect the whole group. I understand the feeling of God`s presence in and auditorium or room when worship is taking place and one would like to think such a place would have a heavenly "shield" around it, but the events in Texas, Connecticut, and California seem to show that this is not always true. If we use the defense of " well it happened so God must have willed it" then we step back to the mindset of the crusader period. 

 As Candice mentioned, if your child, wife, or husband was in a worship service that was invaded by a mass shooter would you want somebody who could stop it to stop it? Just because some nut says allah told him the kill everyone he can in a Christian church one day, should no one even attempt to stop him? I would assume that every gathering, in church or outside church, is going to have Spirit filled people and non-Spirit filled people present. In fact our church invites non-Christian people to the service every Sunday in the hope that they might receive the Spirit by hearing the Word taught. We expect non-Christians to be present and would not invite someone who has mass murder plans for the morning service into our midst. Unfortunately, we can`t always tell what is on everyone`s mind. 

  Is the idea of teaching and worship to only have those already Spirit filled to attend? I have never been to one of those meetings but I`ll bet it would be a fantastic place to be. I would also suggest that the first one of those I get to see will be in heaven but maybe not!

 I was simply asking for any input I could get about church security and how others were doing it. It does seem to be a necessary thing when innocent worshipers are being killed for no obvious reason.

 

May God bless us all and protect us all as we worship,

 

Charlie


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#16 Candice

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 10:27 PM

Charlie,
I live in Northern Wyoming -- cowboy country - real cowboys. There are extremely low incidents of breaking and entering since the greater population is armed. I could say here that in every church someone is carrying. Would be assassins know.

Not a deeper life response but it's the facts. Too sad but it is.

#17 Tkulp

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 12:06 PM

The Biblical purpose of the Church, the body of Christ;

 

"....It was he who gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, that is, to build up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God — a mature person, attaining to the measure of Christ's full stature.

 

"So we are no longer to be children, tossed back and forth by waves and carried about by every wind of teaching by the trickery of people who craftily carry out their deceitful schemes. But practicing the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into Christ, who is the head. From him the whole body grows, fitted and held together through every supporting ligament. As each one does its part, the body grows in love."

 

"So I say this, and insist in the Lord, that you no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in their understanding, being alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts.


Ephesians 4:11-18

 

An unbeliever or one who practices sin, is not part of the body of Christ.

 

I do not believe that church as most know of church is what the Bible describes as going on in the Early Church. Personally, any group to follow, or attempt to follow the Bible in regard to the meeting of a group of believers, can very quickly and easily become a set of laws or legalism. To just do a set of actions because of someones idea of following certain directions is to most likely miss the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The opposite is also not the best; which would be to throw out all rules or guidelines. Deception and the flesh would tend to grow in lawlessness. Very difficult to explain without posting a lot of Scripture.

 

You ask what my church does. What we do is to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit. The heart of the leadership is to obey the leading of the Holy Spirit in all that is done.

 

I am an elder, and to my knowledge the subject has never been brought up in any meeting of the elders. We just recently started a children's church. (Nothing in the Bible speaks about children's church, by the way.) It is being held in a building with an outdoor entrance. The pastor felt to have the outside door locked during their service to keep the children in and anyone else from walking in.

 

As for the adult meeting, there are no preparations to stop illegal activity. I am not a pacifist, and to totally express how the Holy Spirit is working in mine and the bodies lives is not possible for this post.

 

As a youth I loved shooting and hunting. I believe that an armed citizen is a discouragement to crime. I think that right to carry laws are important for the safety of any nation. In Israel, all the youth in the military, have a rifle in their possession at all times; no matter where they are or what they are doing.

 

The issue, is not what I think or what my church does. The issue is what does Jesus teach and what example did He leave for His Body?

 

Does the fruit of your speech and life bear witness that you are a follower (as defined by Scripture) and part of the one Body of Christ?
 

What the Holy Spirit has revealed to me is what I have been sharing and continue to share. Does everyone have the relationship to live according to what I see? NO! Does that mean that they do not have eternal life? That is not my decision. I can only share the Word of God which says to all, in John 15, that if a branch, attached to the vine Jesus Christ, does not produce fruit, that branch is cut off and put on the burn pile.

 

The following was previously stated... "The problem here is that we welcome sinners into our church so that they may hear the gospel and possibly repent of their sins and be saved. The purpose of the church is to spread the gospel, not hide it and keep telling it to those who are already in a relationship with the Lord."

 

The first sentence is a problem according to the accounts of Acts and the teaching of Paul in Ephesians 4. The church was not originated for unbelievers or heathen, it is for the growth and edification of the body of Christ. The lives of those that are part of the body of Christ are to be witnesses to the "Power" of God. That power, which is the miraculous power to be born again; to deliver from a life of evil and sin, as well as to heal, here and now. The Scriptural purpose of the Church is not to spread the gospel, but to mature the body of Christ, according to Paul's letter to the Ephesians!! 

 

"...and let us consider [thoughtfully] how we may encourage one another to love and to do good deeds, not forsaking our meeting together [as believers for worship and instruction], as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more [faithfully] as you see the day [of Christ's return] approaching."


Hebrews 10:24-25

 

When God and His Word is not followed and obeyed it is like the chick that wanders out from underneath the wing of the mother hen. It is the beginning of problems that just snowball and always seem to require man's intervention and wisdom.

 

Isaiah puts it this way;

Who is among you who [reverently] fears the Lord, who obeys the voice of His Servant, yet who walks in darkness and deep trouble and has no shining splendor [in his heart]? Let him rely on, trust in, and be confident in the name of the Lord, and let him lean upon and be supported by his God.

 

Behold, all you [enemies of your own selves] who attempt to kindle your own fires [and work out your own plans of salvation], who surround and gird yourselves with momentary sparks, darts, and firebrands that you set aflame!--walk by the light of your self-made fire and of the sparks that you have kindled [for yourself, if you will]! But this shall you have from My hand: you shall lie down in grief and in torment. [Isa. 66:24]


Isaiah 50:10-11

 

 

 



#18 Charles Miles

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 12:35 PM

I see.  I will continue to pray that neither of our churches, or any other church, will have a repeat of the violence that occurred in that Texas church. Our church will pray but will continue to be prepared to protect our children and congregants.



#19 Tkulp

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 11:07 AM

Charlie,

 

Thank you.

 

I feel to make a request of you, not knowing what you  already do or do not do regarding the Bible and quiet time with the Holy Spirit.

 

Please sometime get alone in a quiet place where there will hopefully not be any distractions for at least an hour. Have a Bible, without any commentary of any kind. Pray that only the Holy Spirit would be present to teach you. That the Holy Spirit would open your spiritual eyes, ears, and understanding.

 

Pray for a New Testament book that the Holy Spirit would have you to read and learn from. What ever book that comes to your mind, read it all the way through, as if you were reading a letter from an old friend. You might want to consider making notes on ideas, questions, or things that are not understood.

 

If you will, read the same Book everyday for at least a week. And then, after a week or two, if you will, share anything new, different or questions, that you have received during your quiet time with the Holy Spirit.



#20 Charles Miles

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 03:51 PM

Already do this, but at your request I will do again after choir practice tonight.