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Are C&MA colleges hindering the Great Commission?


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#1 douglas-oliver

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 06:09 PM

Are C&MA colleges helping or hindering the Great Commission?

 

One of the big changes over the past few decades at Christian universities has been the number of students paying for college with student debt and the amount of debt accumulated by those students.  This sad trend is present at C&MA colleges also.

 

This has created a situation where many, if not most, students are graduating with so much debt that they are unable to pay off their student debts in any reasonable time frame.

 

Consider Nyack:  At Nyack, students typically take on about $25,000 in Federal student debt (more if they also seek private debt).  Debt levels are so high that only 42% of Nyack’s borrowers have paid off any of the principal 3 years after graduation.  Worse, about 9% of Nyack students who borrowed have defaulted on their loans within 3 years after graduation.

 

If this were bad enough, only 42% of Nyack students graduate within 6 years.  Those students who drop out still owe on any student debt.

 

The other C&MA colleges have somewhat better statistics.  However, all C&MA colleges in the USA are producing many graduates that are seriously indebted.  It is much more difficult to take a ministry position, or tithe (for that matter)  when you are deep in debt.

 

It is reasonable to ask: are C&MA Christian colleges helping or hindering the Great Commission?

 

If your answer is that they may be hindering the spread of the Gospel, then what can we do to help change this situation in a way that helps the C&MA and brings glory to God?

 

Data from https://projects.pro...s/nyack-college



#2 Andrew/Esther Schaeffer

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 01:38 AM

C&MA colleges here in Burkina Faso have 100% of their graduates entering into full-time ministry, and, due to local church involvement, graduate debt free! They provide their own food by farming during the summer break and by serving in churches that are without pastors. 



#3 douglas-oliver

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 04:51 AM

To the Schaeffers,

I assume that you are part of this effort in Burkina Faso - for that I thank you.

Doug Oliver



#4 Tkulp

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 09:59 AM

Doug,

 

I wonder if there is not a more fundamental evil at work than debt, which the Bible teaches us not to have. Being conformed to the world?

 

I attended two different 'Christian'/denomination colleges. During that time the government was making 'accreditation' a very critical issue regarding the value of the degree you received.

 

Due to the accreditation process have not most colleges "conformed" to the World? Accredited Colleges must teach certain philosophies and doctrines of man, of the world.

 

 

I believe that God can use anything or anyone to further His plan, even the rebellious Pharaoh of Egypt, when he refused to turn the Children of Israel free.

 

My understanding of the Great Commission is that it was given to a select few that had been disciples and were elevated to apostles (sent out ones). They were to go no where (stay in Jerusalem) until Christ had returned to the Father and released? the Holy Spirit to fill and empower them to do the job that the Father wanted done. The Job could not be done without a totally surrendered life, empowered by the Holy Spirit.

 

If you only gain knowledge and lack the surrendered and empowered life, to the Holy Spirit, what are you spreading or being a witness to?

 

Jesus talked about the lack of value in the missionaries that the Jewish leaders sent out. Paul was trained by the elite of the Pharisees.

 

Jesus said that you can have or serve two totally different sources of meeting our needs here on earth. You will either trust and run to God or you will trust and run to financial institutions, mammon.

 

Do you know of any ministry that is not controlled or at least majorly influenced by possessions and the financial arm of the organization?

 

It was the controller of the finances that enabled the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Where does the use of money and the love or dependence on money really begin and end. Only God knows the deepest motives and thoughts of our lives!

 

Conformity to the world is a really tough issue to honestly deal with, but we will not know the good and perfect will of God until we do; according to Romans 12:1-3.

 

Tim

 

PS Should it be the responsibility of the church or the 'father in the home', to train the children? Where does the Word of God stand or fall regarding conformity to the norms of a society? Where should human reasoning override Biblical 'customs' or sacraments?

 

PPS  I was told to never lie because a little white lie would lead to a bigger lie, until you were uncontrollably living a lie. Is it possible, in all things, that when you allow a little missing of the mark in you life you will end up not even being able to come close? The problems and issues will maybe tend to snowball??



#5 douglas-oliver

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 11:09 AM

Tim,

You asked: Do you know of any ministry that is not controlled or at least majorly influenced by possessions and the financial arm of the organization?

 

My answer is: few, if any.

Good point.

Doug


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#6 Tkulp

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 05:31 AM

I attend a church that sees the problem, but there is no easy solution. In one year, God miraculously delivered the church from a $150,000.00 debt that they were struggling just to pay the interest on for years. Money is not the issue any more, it is living a Holy Spirit led life-style in a very dark and deceived society.

 

My personal goal is Romans 12:1-3. The conformity to the world's way is my personal struggle. We are so entangled, not just financially, with a different trust system than what I see in the Bible.

 

Blessings on your personal walk,

Tim



#7 alcma2323!

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 07:01 AM

Thanks be to God that He provides for debt removal.  Debt acquisition is a worldly pursuit.  Piling

up debt is a temptation to compromise the Word for the sake of popularity, tithes and offerings.

If debt payment is a part of offering revenues, then a watered down word, or a word devoid of

judment on sin may result.  We should provide service cancellable loans for seminary.



#8 Tkulp

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 09:39 AM

That may be a valid fix for service qualified individuals, but what about those who for some reason just can not get a job?

 

I just dealt with three large old, what are called in our area, silver maples. They are very prolific, by seed and root. The shoots were like weeds in our yard. In order to remove them from our yard I had to pull them over roots and all. Then we spent the next two or more years pulling out little shoots by the roots. We still are dealing with dead roots and do not have a beautiful yard.

 

Lesson: You can not solve a problem by trimming or cutting it down. You must destroy the roots! Spiritually, the Holy Spirit is the only one that can get rid of the roots of evil growth on a personal level. On a kingdom level the evil imitations, of the real, are allowed to grow side by side, with the real plants, until the harvest, when by fruit, the imitation is destroyed.

 

Okay, so here is where I get in trouble. I know of no single, human answer that completely solves any problem.

 

For our church, which is independent, we repented of the wrong ways we were thinking and living (how the church had been structured for success). We began to follow the direction of the Holy Spirit, in agreement with the Word of God. We trusted and obeyed the Spirit of the Word of God. We sold a fancy van that had been bought for "church ministry". Within a years time God did the rest. We are still, as elders, daily, first in our personal lives, second in the church decisions, desiring for the Holy Spirit to be the absolute authority.

 

If God is really God, than we need to treat Him like God as the source of all wisdom and provision. Our focus is not on building a larger group of people or special attracting ministries. Our desire is to see the fruit of the Holy Spirit in our individual lives. That means real death to self and selfishness. Life, new life in Christ, found only in Jesus Christ! Not a presumptuous indwelling, but a real fruit evident indwelling, sourced from true vine.

 

We can not do anything of value of our selves. It is God that calls, draws and delivers supernaturally. The Word says that God added to the numbers of the early church. (After Ananias, together with Sapphira his wife, attempted to deceive, and died, people were afraid to join the believers.) Why are we so different today? Is there a different spirit in control of the believers? Has the idea of a believer been redefined?

 

When we are grafted into the vine, Jesus Christ, and walk in obedience to the sap that is flowing through us. (because we really passionately love Him and daily sit at His feet receiving His influence, rather than sitting at the feet of the world, its pleasures and activities, or its self help training and programs) The fruit that is potentially, spiritually produced as a product(fruit) of our relationship with God.

 

When God's fruit gets squeezed His sweet juice flows out; not because of training, but because of an influential relationship with Him.

 

Seminaries are the last thing that I believe is needed. Seminaries only give credentials that say that one has completed the training to work at the churches that are conformed to the world's requirements of approval and achievement.

 

We need branches that are firmly attached to the vine Jesus Christ, doing each day the tasks that life presents into their hands, as onto the Father. The Father provides the supernatural witness and drawing of empty, needy souls.

 

If I have not experienced and am living Truth I have no personal, valid, witness. Second and Third hand testimony carries no weight in a court of law. How much less effect or influence will it have in bring Deliverance to a dying world?

 

Living the cross life, doing only the will of the Father, is deadly to the flesh, but very rewarding to the spirit. Jesus died a very cruel death doing the will of the Father.

 

Where did Jesus get the knowledge to teach the teachers as a youth?

 

Do very many believe that anyone can follow the example of Jesus? I get the impression that too many, on the C&MA site, consider it blasphemous to even think of an human being like Jesus.

 

Summary: Jesus got His knowledge without cost. How? He applied His knowledge as life presented opportunity, at the synagogue?, the carpentry business? He submitted to his parents; obedience? He worked (for His father?) as a carpenter most of His life. His ministry began, because of?, as a result of?, obedience, submission? to his mother in supplying a need for wine at a wedding.

 

We should live by the world's, by our own, by our opinion of the Bible's, the Holy Spirit's, definition of success!