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Demonic Power in the Churches of America?


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#1 Tkulp

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 10:08 PM

I was pleasantly surprised to receive an online sermon from one of my son-in-laws that I do not often get to communicate with, online. I had felt in the last months to send a couple of excellent sermons from the church which I attend to all my son-in-laws. I never expected to receive this sermon.

 

I am including the link to the sermon that he sent because it, as the pastor realizes, just touches the surface of Satan’s operations in the lives of people that attend Christian churches across our country.  I want to say that I can not agree with all of this pastors beliefs, but I feel  that God is at work in his life and he is willing to hear and obey the revealed truth he has to the best of his faith and ability. He is not ashamed to call darkness ‘Black’ instead of ‘Light’!

 

<https://jamesriver.o...-the-paranormal>

 

As I was listening to his description of Satan’s abilities and operations in the world today, the book of Job came to my mind, along with the deception, in the church, that no one, but Jesus, was or can be ‘perfect’. Also that what we do has nothing to do with our eternal deliverance.

 The King James understanding of that Hebrew word, translated as perfect, is ‘complete’. Various translation use words such as;

 

“…a blameless and upright man, one who fears God [with reverence] and abstains from and turns away from evil [because he honors God]."

…or “…a pure and upright man, one who fears God and turns away from evil."

…or “…a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and turneth away from evil.”

…or “…a man perfect and upright, fearing God, and turning aside from evil?'”

 

 

God had a lot of respect for Job’s character and brought Job to Satan’s attention, because of the faithful purity of his life.

 

What jumped out at me was Satan’s belief that someone is only perfect when God’s hedge of protection is surrounding them.

 

Satan believes that someone “can be” perfect if protected from evil?? Is it possible that Satan believes something about “holiness” that thousands, maybe millions of people that call Jesus ‘Lord’ do not believe?? Satan believes in a qualified “sinless perfection” (due to God’s protection)? In other words, only if God protects man will man serve Him perfectly. Satan never questioned man's ability to be blameless. He only questioned the motives for the man being pure.

 

People question man’s ability to be holy, without sin. Please remember that the entire life of Job was lived without any mention of the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit, which was mentioned with Moses, prophets and kings. We are all given the ability to surrender to the complete control of the Holy Spirit to empower us to Holiness, Purity.

 

People today have no fear of God as Job did. They belittle the idea of ‘holiness’ and ‘good works’. Is it possible that these modern Christians know more about God and a Holy life than Satan and his Demons do?

 

James tells us that this belittling of ‘holiness and works,’ in favor of a fruitless ‘faith,’ is not new to our day and age.

 

“…faith, if it does not have works, is dead being by itself. But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith without works and I will show you faith by my works.

You believe that God is one; well and good. Even the demons believe that — and tremble with fear.  But would you like evidence, you empty fellow, that faith without works is useless?...” James 2:17-20

 

The entire affair with Job seems to be Satan trying to prove that a man can not be “pure”,  “perfect” or “blameless” without God’s protection.

 

 

God is proving that there are men that are “blameless” or “perfect” even when God removes all the blessings and protection.

 

Satan’s power in deceiving the church, today, goes far deeper, in my understanding, than this pastor sees.

 

When the church is involved with the bold and obvious satanic operations of Satan’s Kingdom, in rebellion and blind darkness, is there any hope for people to see the less obvious workings of deception and darkness in their lives?? Especially when they all believe that they have a fail proof entry into eternal life, no matter how they live, just so long as they have confessed with their mouths and are making converts to their way.

 

Satan has always been about proving God wrong and not trustworthy.

 

Why should he not convince people that the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ cannot deliver them from the power and bondage of and to sin, rebellion or conformity to  Satan’s kingdom of this world?

 

“….the serpent  …said to the woman, "Is it really true that God said, 'You must not eat from any tree of the orchard'?"

 

“The serpent said to the woman, "Surely you will not die,”

 

 

Can you not hear the deceiver today saying, “No one is perfect, God did not really mean what He said with His commands?

 

“If you love me you will keep my commandments!”

 

“…like the Holy One who called you, become holy yourselves in all of your conduct, for it is written, "You shall be holy, because I am holy."

“And if you address as Father the one who impartially judges according to each one's work, live out the time of your temporary residence here in reverence.” 1Peter 1

 

And…

Jesus said, “So then, be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”  Matthew 5:48

 

 

How about if we reason together?

 

Who has the most to gain by convincing mankind that they can not be “Holy” without sin?

 

Jesus said, “…this reason I speak to them in parables: Although they see they do not see, and although they hear they do not hear nor do they understand.”

 

“And concerning them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: 'You will listen carefully yet will never understand, you will look closely yet will never comprehend.

For the heart (the thoughts or feelings (mind)) of this people has become dull; they are hard of hearing, and they have shut their eyes, so that they would not see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’  ”   Matthew 13

 

 

I see Jesus being all about deliverance and healing, but Satan is all about bondage, suffering and destruction. “He is like a roaring lion, seeking whom He may devour (Destroy completely).

 

 

I pray that some of you who read this can and will turn and wake-up to the Truth of the Word of God; see and understand the tactics of Satan! Jesus wants to live within you and help carry the load.

 

 

What will you choose, the influence of the kingdoms of this world, or the influence of the Holy Spirit and the True Kingdom of God according to His Word?

 

 

A.B. Simpson devotional...

 

Scripture

Now unto him that is able to keep you from fallingJude 24

 

 

https://www.cmallian...mpson?mmdd=0107



#2 jmm

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 03:51 PM

Thank you for sharing. I have too long believed that it's not really possible to walk blamelessly. However, if the Lord commands us something--whether it be holiness, healing the sick, loving our neighbor/family--then He gives us to ability to do it by His Holy Spirit!



#3 Tkulp

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 09:54 PM

Thanks for taking the time to sign up on the C&MA site just to share your desire to follow the Word, jmm!!

 

 

It is the Holy Spirit that makes the difference. Remember the 10 virgins; they were all pure, they all had the oil of the Spirit, they all had a burning light (when they were not asleep), but only five had spent the kind of time necessary to have an extra supply of the oil (the Holy Spirit).

 

For me that meant that they had spent much quality time at the feet of Jesus, as Mary chose to do. When the foolish came back to the wedding the groom said that He did not know them.

 

It is exciting to sit at the feet of the Holy Spirit and be taught from the Word of God! It is even more exciting to look back on your life and see the fruit of the Spirit and know it happened because of who you hang out with rather than what you try to do or be.

 

"I tell you, there is joy in the presence of God's angels over one sinner who repents**." Luke 15:10 

 

**Strong's Greek Dictionary Definition for repents G3340; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction)



#4 Tony Davison

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 05:29 AM

Walking in the Light
1Jn 1:5  And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 
1Jn 1:6  If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 
1Jn 1:7  but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 
1Jn 1:8  If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 
1Jn 1:9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 
1Jn 1:10  If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 

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#5 Tkulp

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 11:46 PM

Tony,

 

We have been communicating for some time on this subject. May God forgive you for turning the Word of God into deception by just sharing part of the Truth and leaving out the rest of the letter. To repeat things that have already been disproved in other threads is counter productive and willful blindness to and against the Truth. To attempt to sway or change a repentant heart is very serious business before God especially if it goes against the clear written Word of God. We will have to answer for every idle word that we speak as well as the influence that we have on those around us.

 

Here is the exact quote, in context, from Net Bible.

"Matthew 12:31-37 

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.  And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

 

Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

 

O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

 

A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

 

This is Jesus talking, His Words, not one of the other writers of the the New Testament whose meaning can and has been twisted for 2000 years. Jesus' Words do not agree with the Reformation doctrine of Justification by Faith. (A doctrine that has issues as it is a misquote from the Old Testament.) Before putting validity to a doctrine I look to the Old Testament since that was the Scripture that the NT talks about, as well as the words of Jesus as recorded in the Gospels. If your doctrine disagrees with the Spirit of either of those two you better find the problem with the doctrine.

 

First of all let me share with you a Biblical Truth. All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. If you understand mathematics and the number line with its negative side and positive side separated by zero you may more easily understand John's statement.

 

We are all born in the negative. Adam and Eve were created at zero and lived for a time in the positive until they sinned, causing all humanity to be born in the negative controlled by the senses (flesh/selfishness). Jesus was born at zero and lived His entire life in the positive. His death made it possible man to be born again, spiritually, at point zero. Thus the statement that if we say we have not lived in the negative we are a liar. All humans except Jesus has lived in the negative, according to the Word of God.

 

John is now continues his letter by talking about being born again at point zero, even as Jesus was from birth. The rest of His letter points out that we may on an occasion take a turn toward the negative and have forgiveness, but that is the exception rather than the normal. The true believer has the Spirit of Christ living inside, having been given complete control as Lord, absolute controller. Therefore being born again and emptied of sin (selfishness) and its control, the believer is considered Fathered by God, as Jesus was. John 14, 15 and 17 clearly explain that even as Jesus had the Spirit of the Father in His Life, guiding and directing all, so, the true believer will have the Spirit of Jesus Christ living within, guiding and directing all. If that Holy Spirit is always in control and be followed and obeyed there will be no occasion to rebel or sin.

 

I know the advantage to adding chapter and verse numbers to the Bible but I have seen them used by Satan in so many lives to deceive and twist the understanding of the Truth of the Word.

 

The book of 1 John is a letter when read from the first word of chapter 1 to the last word in chapter 5!

 

You have not included in your verses the very next English sentence. " (My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin.)."

 

Anyone interested in Truth will read the entire letter and pray for the Holy Spirit to open their eyes and ears to understand Truth.

 

Here John confirms what is in the Gospel of John about the Truth of Jesus living in our mortal bodies with His Spirit directing and in control.

 

What John is really concerned with is found in the heart of the letter in chapter 3.

 

This is from Net Bible.

"And everyone who has this hope focused on him purifies himself, just as Jesus is pure). Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; indeed, sin is lawlessness.  And you know that Jesus was revealed to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.  Everyone who resides in him does not sin; everyone who sins has neither seen him nor known him.

 

Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Jesus is righteous. The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was revealed: to destroy the works of the devil.  Everyone who has been fathered by God does not practice sin, because God's seed resides in him, and thus he is not able to sin, because he has been fathered by God.  By this the children of God and the children of the devil are revealed: Everyone who does not practice righteousness — the one who does not love his fellow Christian — is not of God."

 

King James is a little stronger in wording. The Holy Spirit needs to reveal to you which is the most accurate revelation of the Heart of God.

 

"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

 

You Tony, having heard, are now accountable to God for how you choose to believe and live. I am accountable for what I say to you as a warning and I take that very seriously. This is not my opinion. It is what I have been shown and what I have experienced in my life as a first hand witness. Mine is not to condemn, but to repeat a similar warning as John the Baptist "Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand", Repent for the Kingdom of God is here and about to be removed.

 

I pray that you will not continue to spread partial Truth.

 

Luke 17:1-4  Jesus said to his disciples, "Stumbling blocks are sure to come, but woe to the one through whom they come!  It would be better for him to have a millstone tied around his neck and be thrown into the sea than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.
Watch yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him. If he repents, forgive him.  Even if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times returns to you saying, 'I repent,' you must forgive him."



#6 Tony Davison

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 06:21 AM

From A W Tozer Devotional Jan. 26 & 27

This devotional was compiled from the The Knowledge of the Holy”

Sovereign Decrees

Another real problem created by the doctrine of the divine sovereignty has to do with the will of man. If God rules His universe by His sovereign decrees, how is it possible for man to exercise free choice? And if he cannot exercise freedom of choice, how can he be held responsible for his conduct? Is he not a mere puppet whose actions are determined by a behind-the-scenes God who pulls the strings as it pleases Him?

The attempt to answer these questions has divided the Christian church neatly into two camps that have borne the names of two distinguished theologians, Jacobus Arminius and John Calvin. Most Christians are content to get into one camp or the other and deny either sovereignty to God or free will to man. It appears possible, however, to reconcile these two positions without doing violence to either, although the effort that follows may prove deficient to partisans of one camp or the other.

Here is my view: God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not thereby countervail the sovereign will of God but fulfills it, inasmuch as the eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make but that he should be free to make it. If in His absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay His hand or say, "What doest thou?" Man's will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so.

Perhaps a homely illustration might help us to understand. An ocean liner leaves New York bound for Liverpool. Its destination has been determined by proper authorities. Nothing can change it. This is at least a faint picture of sovereignty.

On board the liner are several scores of passengers. These are not in chains, neither are their activities determined for them by decree. They are completely free to move about as they will. They eat, sleep, play, lounge about on the deck, read, talk, altogether as they please; but all the while the great liner is carrying them steadily onward toward a predetermined port.

Both freedom and sovereignty are present here and they do not contradict each other. So it is, I believe, with man's freedom and the sovereignty of God. The mighty liner of God's sovereign design keeps its steady course over the sea of history. God moves undisturbed and unhindered toward the fulfillment of those eternal purposes that He purposed in Christ Jesus before the world began. We do not know all that is included in those purposes, but enough has been disclosed to furnish us with a broad outline of things to come and to give us good hope and firm assurance of future well-being.


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#7 Tkulp

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 03:04 PM

Tony,

 

You tried using the Word of God to proven your false opinions and failed. Now you are using the words and opinions of a man minus the Word of God.

 

I respect much of what Tozer has had to say, but not everything, have I found to be in line with the Word of God in total purity.

 

I got in trouble, minor trouble, on the C&MA site for challenging something that Tozer had said with Scripture. The Blogger did not allow my comments to be seen by the public.

 

Regarding doctrines, especially those of both Jacobus Arminius and John Calvin, I do not find that either one are founded on a good foundation. No, I do not agree with either one nor the doctrines that come from any other man trying to go beyond the Word of God to explain God or the Heart of God.

 

Unfortunately too many translations of the Greek and Hebrew Scriptures reflect man's doctrines rather than the pure truth of the original. I am not putting translators down. I do not see it as an easy job, but very hard to not follow your foundation when hard decisions are there to be made.

 

Partial Truth is the most powerful form of deception.

 

I do not consider the above doctrine to line up purely with the Truth of God's nature as revealed in the Scriptures.

 

Tozer is obviously trying to be a mediator in the above writings. Why? I can only do what many who try to explain their beliefs; have an educated opinion. What I would say than may be totally false, as I have no real way of knowing Tozer's heart. Therefore I will give no opinion, but simple say that what I read, from the Spirit of the Scriptures, does not support the above doctrinal opinions. One opinion challenging another opinion is worthless to me.

 

My mind is reminded of Satan tactics of deceit in Genesis.

 

Genesis 3:1-6

 

Now the serpent was more shrewd than any of the wild animals that the LORD God had made.

 

Satan did not do the dirty work himself here. He used the shrewdest of God's creation to reason with and deceive the woman.

 

He said to the woman, "Is it really true that God said, 'You must not eat from any tree of the orchard'?"

 

Satan wants us questioning the Word of God and what it says and what it means. He wants us to use our reasoning and senses rather than the straight forward directions.

Genesis 3:2  The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit from the trees of the orchard; but concerning the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the orchard God said, 'You must not eat from it, and you must not touch it, or else you will die.'"
 

The woman knew the Truth perfectly well, and confessed the Truth accurately with her mouth!

 

The serpent said to the woman, "Surely you will not die, for God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will open and you will be like divine beings who know good and evil."

 

Satan appeals to the human senses and accuses God of deceiving her and keeping the best things from her.

Gen 3:6  When the woman saw that the tree produced fruit that was good for food, was attractive to the eye, and was desirable for making one wise, she took some of its fruit and ate it. She also gave some of it to her husband who was with her, and he ate it.

 

She believed Satan's lies, trusting her own senses and reasoning, rejecting the Truth of God's Word. She not only failed herself but she caused her husband to be a part of her disobedience.

 

What was the part truth deception that is still working today? "Surely you will not die" Today, Satan says people do not have to follow God's or Jesus' commands. Actually Satan tells us that no one can really live a pure and holy life in opposition to the Word of God. Surely you will not face eternal death. God's love is unconditional. Nothing can take you out of His hand.

 

Just like Adam and Eve you have the choice as to what you will believe and how you will act on what you believe to be truth.

 

 

Jesus knew that these deceptions would happen and spoke to His disciples about it.

 

Matthew 18:4-10  Whoever then humbles himself like this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.  And whoever welcomes a child like this in my name welcomes me.
 

"But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a huge millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the open sea. (Does that include God's Spiritual children?)
 

Woe to the world because of stumbling blocks! It is necessary that stumbling blocks come, but woe to the person through whom they come. (Would not a stumbling block cause you to miss the mark, loose the race you are running?)
 

If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into fiery hell.
 

"See that you do not disdain one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven."
 

 

The stability of anything is in its foundation. Are you building on sand or rock? Jesus says that the one who hears, but does not do, is like building on sand. The one that hears and does, obeys, is like building on rock.

 

Christ in you is the hope of glory!

 

When you walk with the Lord, in the light of His Word, what a Glory He sheds on your way....  Trust and Obey for there is no other way to be happy in Jesus, but to Trust and Obey!
 


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#8 Charles Miles

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 10:34 PM

The woman did not repeat the exact words of God.  She said that they were not to even "touch" the fruit. Satan knew he had her right then. Eve was deceived into eating the fruit, but Adam was the one God told. He willfully ate it.


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#9 Tony Davison

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 04:53 AM

Tkulp

 

These six things the Lord hates – Proverbs 6:16-19
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
1. A proud look.
2. lying tongue.
3. Hands that shed innocent blood.
4. A heart that devises wicked plans.
5. Feet that are swift in running to evil.
6. A false witness who speaks lies.
7. And one who sows discord among brethren.


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#10 Tkulp

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 12:27 AM

Tony,

 

My mind was not to reply to your posts at all; to shake the dust from my feet, so to speak, and move on to other things that are on my heart. The Spirit within had other ideas as I began to research the things that were on my mind. Here is what I have been given to share with you, as well as others that join with you, named and unnamed. I have heard the concept expressed lately that to repeat what you have already done and expect different results is defined as insanity. I do not know the origin except that it is the wise reasoning of the world. The Gospel is to be given in season and out of season. It is only the Holy Spirit that brings the results. Sometimes they will be good and sometimes negative.

 

I am really surprised at the Scriptures that you have shared, they are definitely Truth. I do not believe that you nor Charlie really understand it’s meaning to the point that you take this Truth to heart, and fear God, regarding how you use His Holy Word.

 

I knew that I had previously posted regarding the subject of sin in the lives of those that call themselves Christians. I did not recall the depth that I had shared and was going to emphasize Jesus’ concepts of the importance of the fruit that is produced by both good and bad trees; as well as the fruit or lack of fruit produced from those that have been grafted into the vine, Jesus Christ. John 15

 

I was impressed to research this site for any listings that used Noah Webster’s definition of sin. Simply stated, he says that sin is “The voluntary departure” of a man from what he knows is right to do. In other words, we know when we sin, as well as when we are living in sin, or not living in sin. The fruit that our lives produce reflects the control of selfishness or the Holy Spirit's selflessness. Self is either alive and well or it is dead, totally, really dead. The Holy Spirit is in control, total control.

 

Jesus says that a good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. The branch that is grafted into the vine, Jesus Christ, either produces fruit, and is pruned by God, the gardener, to produce more and better fruit; or it does not produce fruit, and is cut off and burned.

 

The discussion on a particular thread that Kevin B. started is quite long, two pages of discussion due to a counter comment by Charlie Miles regarding his views regarding sin and a relationship with Christ.

 

For those that would like to have a scriptural study on the Bibles ideas on Holiness, especially what “sin” is, you will find the thread here... < https://ecommunity.c...onfusing/page-2>

 

My thoughts regarding sin and some comments made by Charlie Miles were posted in this thread on page 2, by Tkulp on 27 March 2017 - 01:29 AM in Deeper Life.

 

 

So, now, I would like to step back and take a look at what both you, Tony, and Charlie, have done, on at least two instances, in regard to my communication or conversations with other people on the C&MA Deeper Life Forum. In this thread it was you, Tony, and the occasion linked above it was Charlie. I am talking to people that have responded in agreement, harmony, with the ideas that I have shared with them from Ministries or Scripture.

 

The discussion is about and supporting the idea that we can experience total deliverance from the power of sin and Satan. Those that I am communicating with are in total agreement, harmony, and oneness of mind with me. I would definitely consider them to be brothers in the Lord.

 

What happens next, on both threads is the same thing. In both occasions an individual, that has not been involved in the discussion at all, presents their views, opinions or scriptures, that they believe are true but are in definite opposition to the current harmonious conversation. Would you, Tony, consider this unexpected interruption as disagreement, contradiction, division or divisiveness...????? I do believe that the interruption is definitely discord.

 

Maybe you Tony could define what it is when a positive discussion between two or more people that are in agreement is interrupted by someone that is in rather negative disagreement with the subject being agreeably talked about??? Would that possibly be what God would call “sowing discord among brethren”? There was no disagreement with any of the parties that were communicating before the interruption. Logically it appears that the one interrupting negatively would be sowing the discord.  

 

WordWeb definition of Discord; 1. Lack of agreement or harmony  2. Disagreement among those expected to cooperate  3. A harsh mixture of sounds  4. Strife resulting from a lack of agreement

 

 

I would like to think that your post is a form of apology, if so, you are definitely forgiven. I do not know for sure how God sees your actions, especially since they appear to be against the Truth of His Word. That would be between you and Him. Only He and you know the motives of your heart and mind. I do pray regularly that He forgives you for your opposition to His Word.

 

After thoughts:

 

When the King gave beautiful clean wedding garments to the good and bad alike, who can possibly believe that anyone would ever dream that anyone would want to keep their filthy or dirty rags on underneath a pure white garment? The one that liked the garments that he was wearing already did not bother to put on the wedding garment he was given.

 

People that love the darkness stay away from the Light! Light removes darkness. There can be no darkness in the Light.

 

Tkulp



#11 Charles Miles

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 09:09 AM

I did not plan to visit this thread again, but for some reason I did. Please allow me one last shot at this. When one tells me that they alone have the truth, thery have a special understanding from God that tells them what is true, and that Christians who have studied the Bible for years are totally wrong and have absolutely no understanding of God`s word.... well....I get suspicious. Then to be told that you don`t know the Holy Spirit and you are blaspheming against that Holy Spirit, just because you don`t believe the other person has some type of "special understanding", ...well, again I get suspicious.

  An example would be two men walking down the same road and one remarking that a fence on the side of the road was a pretty shade of blue.  The other then says it is not blue, but green. OK. An opinion, right?  The second man says that the original comment about the color was a personal insult to the man who built the fence. He then goes on to say that he knows the builder and knows that calling the fence green is a personal insult to the point that legal action should be brought on anyone calling the fence green. Oh, and there are other fences on this road where you and I disagree on the color, but I know the truth and you don`t, and unless you agree with me you are a blasphemer.

  Just because I believe man, while on this earth, is a sinner I am called stupid, blasphemer, going to hell, and other stuff? Well, thank goodness the paralegal belief police can`t arrest and jail other believers....yet....as I remember that is what the old Jews did one time about 2000 years ago.  Because Jesus did not adhere to the belief police of his day, he was killed....by these "thought" police who thought they were doing the right thing. He was called "blasphemer", "sower of discord", and "lawbreaker". They even claimed to have this "light" of truth.

  Do you consider that the leaders at the temple were having a discussion with the people about what the Law meant and telling them with authority about the over 600 laws when Jesus stepped in to say.."let me tell you what the Law really means and how to apply it"?  How dare him to intervene when the enlightened leaders were giving the people all of their truth and knowledge. Satan is smart! Satan also knows scripture and can quote it by volume. He also knows how to end any discussion by stating that he alone knows the truth and anyone else should just get out of the way. He will lie about what he knows is true and then brag about how dumb anyone is to challenge him about it. Yes, Satan is defeated, but has not lost his dominion over the earth totally. Now, let me say that I certainly do not think anyone here is satan, but evidence of his work is all around us every day and his tactics have not changed....because they work!

  I am through with this topic and will not be commenting on it anymore. May God give peace to all involved here,

 

Charlie 


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#12 Meema

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 03:23 PM

Tkulp, I’m confused.  I guess I missed the thread that established your theological POV as the final word and you as the ultimate authority on Scriptural interpretation. True, I’ve not been around much lately but, given the time I have spent in here, over the last five years, sharing with the precious Christians here in this forum, I’m more inclined to believe your authority is a figment of your own self-righteousness. 

 

One thing for sure, I am very grateful that I am not your judge. And, that you are not mine.

 

“Human self-righteousness denies the need for the saving, enabling grace of Christ. Human righteousness embraces the cruelest of Satan’s lies, that a person can be righteous by keeping the law. If that were true there would have been no need for the birth, life death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.”  Paul David Tripp

 

I am done with this topic as well. 

 

Meema


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#13 Candice

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 12:24 PM

tkulp, you write, "I have heard the concept expressed lately that to repeat what you have already done and expect different results is defined as insanity. I do not know the origin except that it is the wise reasoning of the world." 

 

I sense that maybe you cannot relate to folks here on the forum.  It appears obvious to me.  I don't know why that is. I don't see your impression that people are in harmony with you here.  Not seeing that

 

"As a fool returneth to his folly.  Seems to mirror the idea that you're insane (foolish) if you repeat the same sin or insolent behavior and expect something different.

 

I assume you'll find  this comparison of the two ideas in direct opposition to your mind's view of scripture here, and most of what anyone here would believe (based on what I see as replies to your various topics). I expect a lengthy gnat strainer to follow.

 

There's a returning pattern.  

 

"Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him."

 

Be at peace with all people as far as it's up to you.  To me, there's a sense that discord among the brethren (or forum members) is partially your goal in your rather nasty replies to genteel folk here.  That's foolish...insane....as it's not bearing fruit.  

 

It is implied so....

If you believe this forum lifeless and you're the only one who is right and fruitful and the tree here is a dead tree, why not try another orchard tkulp?  Why pick on us repeatedly...returning....?  No one with gentleness, kindness, self control etc.…..wants to constantly be berared.

 

Hope you consider this and pray about it. I know you're welcome here if you drop the high and mighty attitude.


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#14 Tkulp

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:01 PM

To those who struggle with wrong thoughts,

 

I was encouraged to write a conclusion for the benefit of any men in the future, who are believers and who are passionately seeking Spiritual victory, but struggling with their thoughts.

 

There are certain Biblical foundational truths that must be understood in order to grasp what has been happening in the world for at least 2000 years.

 

When Jesus was teaching He clearly moved the accountability level from the written law to the law that is written on the heart. The battle for truth and righteousness moved from the actual words we speak and actions we do, into what is called the heart of man. (the heart, figuratively the thoughts or feelings (mind))

 

The battleground is the ‘mind’, the thoughts that enter into it. What is the source of all these impressions on the heart and thoughts in our mind? I do not believe that I have all the answers for sure, only 70 years of experience.

 

The unexplainable thing is that I know that I have what I call impressions, seemingly in the area of my chest, which is different than thoughts in my mind. Then there are the thoughts that are definitely in my mind. The thoughts seem to come from three different sources. There are thoughts that are totally mine, thoughts that I sometimes know are not mine but are about ideas and issues that are not true or evil and lastly, thoughts that are scripture, about scripture or ideas of good things to do or meditate on. 

 

The Word tells us that the battle we are fighting is not against flesh and blood but against spirits and spiritual principalities, Ephesians 6:12. We are to resist the devil, James 4:7. Paul tells the Corinthians in the second letter 11:3 that he was “afraid that just as the serpent deceived Eve by his treachery, the Corinthian believer’s minds could be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.” Do we actually hear voices? I never have heard what I would consider voices, but the thoughts can sometimes be very overwhelming.

 

Too often the evil thoughts come, unnoticed, and become, as it were, part of our own thoughts. If we do not recognize the spiritual source the thoughts are coming from, and if they are evil, and we do not resist them; the evil thoughts will become part of our mediation or thinking processes. As we meditate or dwell on those evil thoughts we soon will accept them as truth; which can lead to us believing lies, say things that are not true, or behaving and talking in an ungodly manner.

 

Evil thoughts can come from various influences that we allow ourselves to be under. The TV, internet, radio and music are probably some of the most deceptive influences that people subject their minds to. (The word deceptive is defined with the concept of anything that is mostly good or true with only a little evil or; tainted comedy that we laugh at; also pieces of Truth taken out of their context and misapplied.)

 

The first influence that gave me problems was the vulgar language in the work place. I would fine these words and ideas regularly coming to my mind requiring me to take control of my mind by praying, singing or thinking on good things. There are many ways the Father gives, in His Word, to resist evil spirits and their deceptive thoughts. The last resort is to go directly to the Father. I have had Him remove not only the thoughts but also the desire for what I should not have that came along with the thought.

 

 

Paul, again, in his Second Letter to the Corinthians chapter 10:3-5 says, “For though we live as human beings, we do not wage war according to human standards, for the weapons of our warfare are not human weapons, but are made powerful by God for tearing down strongholds. We tear down arguments and every arrogant obstacle that is raised up against the knowledge of God, and we take every thought captive to make it obey Christ.”

 

We do this by thinking, before we speak. Is the thing that I am about to say from the Holy Spirit’s thoughts or Satan’s deceptive thoughts of selfishness, defensive excuses, etc. Sometimes Satan can be blamed for thoughts that come from worldly influence that we submit to and the control of the lower nature that we were supposed to have put to death, along with separating ourselves from the conformity to the world and being friends with the world.

 

When we are thinking and under the control of the old fleshly nature we are like Peter, before he was baptized in the Holy Spirit.  Jesus rebuked Peter’s spoken thoughts as being Satan.

 

Jesus during the time of His temptations by Satan, who was misquoting Scripture, knew the ‘Spirit of the Word’ and corrected Satan’s deceptive, self-serving use of the Scriptures.

 

When a person is born again and receives the New Nature, the Holy Spirit will make them very sensitive to the thoughts that come into the mind. That sensitivity can be dulled if they are ignored and the believer does not listen, obey the warnings; or if they do not remove all the evil influences in their lives, which darken the light.

 

Here is the way that Paul speaks to the Galatians about sowing to the flesh. (Pleasing the flesh or lower nature.)

“Do not be deceived. God will not be made a fool. For a person will reap what he sows, because the person who sows to his own flesh will reap corruption from the flesh, but the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life from the Spirit. So we must not grow weary in doing good, for in due time we will reap, if we do not give up.

So then, whenever we have an opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who belong to the family of faith. Galatians 6:7-10

 

You are spirit and your mind receives from spirits, good and evil thoughts; the spirit that you yield to will be the spirit that controls you.

 

Throughout the New Testament the concept is used, referring to love, “If you love me you will keep my commandments”. Keeping commandments is the same as obeying or obedience to the Light of the Word. The spirit that you obey is the spirit that you are showing love to, as well as feeding and making stronger in your mind or giving more control and authority to. This concept is true for evil spirits as well as the Holy Spirit.

 

Now that you are aware of the battle, where it is being fought (in the mind, to control minds) ; that it is a battle of spiritual forces, not people; and that evil spirits want to gain control of the minds and lives of believers; let’s refocus on what I got distracted from, rejoicing over one soul that changed their mind… and took the time and effort to create an account and say “Thank You for sharing…”.

 

Satan is using all kinds of tactics to take our minds away from the Truth of God’s Word and the deliverance from sin, by the life, death and indwelling controlling presence (Lordship) of Jesus Christ. He invites us to take up our cross and follow Him.

 

 

 

Tkulp

 

PS I found the following internet advertisement very interesting. I just happened to bump into it after writing the above ideas about our minds, thoughts and the possible spiritual, influencing sources, which enter our mind, as thoughts.

 

(I did not read the entire article ; I am just quoting the eye catcher phrase.)

 

---------------------------------------------

 

from medium.com

 

Starting Your Day on the Internet Is Damaging Your Brain

 

“I’ve said before the first 3 hours of your day can dictate how your life turns out. And this often begins with the very first thing that you decide to put in your brain…”

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

 

What if every man accepted this and dedicated the first 3 hours of each day to an intimate time with the Word and the Holy Spirit?

 

What if every wife accepted this? What if she dedicated the first 3 hours of each day to an intimate time with her husband; or meditating on the husband’s pleasure and submitting to him, reverencing and adoring him?  Ephesians 5:22-23 “Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.” 1 Peter 3:6Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.”

 

 

 

 

 

Bible Verses about Satan

https://www.biblestu...es-about-satan/

 

PPS To Charlie, 

If you happen by again, I have trouble accepting that the source, the influence, of your last post was inspired by the Holy Spirit that I am learning to listen to. Jesus Christ is Truth! Anything that man tampers with has potential for error. I am a man! If I have tampered with the Word of God I need to be corrected. We all think that we are correct, but God looks at the mind and motives; the heart.

 

Proverbs 16:25  "There is a way that seems right to a person, but its end is the way that leads to death." There are many paths but only one way that leads to life. That way is narrow and there are not very many on that path.

 

I can never agree to disagree with anyone regarding the "Truth". If you know Truth that agrees with the Spirit of the Word of God, show me, I want it. I do not have it all learned yet, according to the fruit of my life, compared with the life of Jesus Christ, as reveled in the Word.

 

The body of Christ, the men, are to listen and judge the spirit or truth of what is said, in order to prevent error. This is why I quote the Scripture, which you have not seemed to care for, and in the past have made negative comments about. Only the Word of God contains an introduction to the Truth; that is the person of Jesus Christ as a living reality in the heart of those that receive and obey Him by being born again.

 

As the letters in the New Testament say over and over there have been and are false teachers and prophets. Every man will stand before the judgment and answer for what they have done with what they have been given. This is no matter of trivia. You may say anything that you like about me and what I post, but in the next life the Word of God says that you will held accountable for what you have said. That is not me or my opinion! That is the Bible. God is very merciful and forgiving to the truly humble and repentant heart. He does not want us under condemnation. He wants us to be changed; a new creature in Jesus Christ, even in the likeness of Jesus.

 

I will be held accountable for what I write. I am accountability to my pastor and elder board, but finally to the Holy Spirit. I am not a lone wolf as some are these days.

 

I feel very sorry for you and others that have problems with the Word of God when it is given in context and Spirit, as a whole Truth. With one goal; restoration of mankind to the purity of its original creation; back in close personal fellowship with the Father.

 

Personally I do forgive you even before you seek forgiveness. I pray that your eyes and ears will be opened, not to hear me, but to hear the Holy Spirit and Truth.

 

May you be given a heart for the Word of God, especially the Spirit of the Word that brings all believers into a unity and oneness of mind even as Jesus had with the Father. John 17:20-23 "...only then can the world believe that the Father sent the Son."



#15 BHerr

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 08:32 PM

This whole discussion reminds me very much of the book of Job. I often wondered why God allowed so many chapters to be put into His Word that reflect error (Job's three friends). During my recent reading through of this book again, it suddenly occurred to me that maybe God wanted us to hear Him say at the end of the book specifically to those three..."what you have said is NOT RIGHT...REPENT...ask Job to pray for you".

Amazingly, much of what was said sounds a lot like what our many friends have said to the one on this string. Here is a sample...Eliphaz thought Job was being arrogant and was deceived, and said all the wise old men were on his side...insisting that man cannot be pure or live without sin. He actually fought for this in several chapters. Here is a sample.:

"Then Eliphaz the Temanite replied: “A wise man wouldn’t answer with such empty talk! You are nothing but a windbag. The wise don’t engage in empty chatter. What good are such words? Have you no fear of God, no reverence for him? Your sins are telling your mouth what to say. Your words are based on clever deception. Your own mouth condemns you, not I. Your own lips testify against you. “Were you the first person ever born? Were you born before the hills were made? Were you listening at God’s secret council? Do you have a monopoly on wisdom? What do you know that we don’t? What do you understand that we do not? On our side are aged, gray-haired men much older than your father! “Is God’s comfort too little for you? Is his gentle word not enough? What has taken away your reason? What has weakened your vision, that you turn against God and say all these evil things? Can any mortal be pure? Can anyone born of a woman be just? Look, God does not even trust the angels. Even the heavens are not absolutely pure in his sight. How much less pure is a corrupt and sinful person with a thirst for wickedness! “If you will listen, I will show you. I will answer you from my own experience. And it is confirmed by the reports of wise men who have heard the same thing from their fathers—"
Job 15:1‭-‬18 NLT

But God spoke very firmly to Eliphaz at the end of the book and told him he was wrong.

The whole argument to support remaining a sinful person seems as silly as wanting to live in a mud puddle when you've been offered a clean home. Why would anyone want to defend that, when Jesus has offered not only forgiveness and cleansing, but the means to remain clean...step out of filthy influences into the influence of His precious Holy Spirit....with joy and peace and all the other fruit as the result! Thank you Jesus! I don't want an excuse to sin anymore...I like being clean! Praise God!