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Coping with the world view


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#1 Tony Davison

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 04:08 AM

This can be a nasty topic, but how do others cope with the pressure of the world view that is being infiltrated into the church? For instance LGBT rights, christians will tell you we have to except them at all cost. I know I love the sinner but hate the sin. People are not satisfied with them being just there they say they should be aloud to do anything in the church. Are there ways to deal with these things without being legalistic?


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#2 reader

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 07:03 AM

Below is from a recent daily Tozer Devotional, which I like, and it speaks to your question.

 

   Lovingly Opposing Evil . . . If we belong to Jesus Christ, we must hate evil even as He hated evil in every form. The ability of Jesus Christ to hate that which was against God and to love that which was full of God was the force that made Him able to receive the anointing—the oil of gladness—in complete measure. On our human side, it is our imperfection in loving the good and hating the evil that prevents us from receiving the Holy Spirit in complete measure. God withholds from us because we are unwilling to follow Jesus in His great poured-out love for what is right and His pure and holy hatred of what is evil.

   This question always arises: "Did our Lord Jesus Christ hate sinners?" We already know the answer. He loved the world. We know better than to think that Jesus hated any sinner.

   Jesus never hated a sinner, but He hated the evil and depravity that controlled the sinner. He did not hate the proud Pharisee, but He detested the pride and self-righteousness of the Pharisee. He did not hate the woman taken in adultery. But he acted against the harlotry that made her what she was.

   Jesus hated the devil and He hated those evil spirits that He challenged and drove out. We present-day Christians have been misled and brainwashed, at least in a general way, by a generation of soft, pussycat preachers. They would have us believe that to be good Christians we must be able to purr softly and accept everything that comes along with Christian tolerance and understanding. Such ministers never mention words like zeal and conviction and commitment. They avoid phrases like "standing for the truth." 

   Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good (Romans 12:9). Other Scriptures along this same line are: Ps 34:14; 36:4; 97:10; Am 5:15; 1Ti 1:5; 1Pe 1:22

 


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#3 Candice

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 11:41 AM

Hi Tony,

 I think Reader quoted Tozer so appropriately.  And, of course, we see that this writing of Tozer's is really tolerance of much more than LBGT.  

 

How do we deal with these things, like still loving the sinner and not be legalistic?

 

First, I'd treat all sin the same.  Yet, we see an allowance of LGBT for a reason as it isn't viewed as sin by even some "Christians" and certainly not by the world at large.  

 

I see you live in Canada.  Many years ago, I was married to a Canadian man who was killed in an airplane crash five months after we were married.  I am still part of my husband's family who mostly live in Calgary.  I prayed that my brothers-in-law would be saved as well as his parents who were all atheists.  My husband was saved three days before he died.  

 

My younger brother-in-law was saved about 8 years ago.  This is a miracle to me as I tend to be somewhat jaded with atheists.

 

Being around Canadians and knowing some of what's going on in their world, I see that the Canadian government has basically dictated, yet maybe not really enforced, that churches cannot preach against homosexuality or gender identity issues, etc.  So, when a society takes an official stand like that, what's to happen but the masses just bow to the dictator?  I say the real church ought to go underground!

 

I believe that we are in such a degenerate, godless society, and end-of-days scenarios are playing out just as the LORD said they would.   To me, the only real churches are underground.  I'd read Rev. 3:14-22 to see how this is working out.  Other churches described in Rev. 2-3 reveal, to  me, where they fall with occult creeping in insidiously.  The churches are really wanting to keep the seats filled, so to speak, and this means the church is full of goats as they sit there Sunday after Sunday, others knowing they live a "gay lifestyle" and there's not even a word of reproof.  Not even in love.  So, if we don't love enough to speak about it, then we aren't fulfilling any kind of role in the church worthy of calling itself The Church!

 

I wish I could live in Iran or China where Christians are persecuted and the "REAL" church is underground.  Surely, these folks can live out their lives in close community, knowing that if someone is LGBT, they are speaking truth into their lives.  No one who's LGBT would continue to go there because the truth isn't what they want to hear. No 4013c status there.  So, there's freedom in the truth.

 

I believe we need to allow the LGBT to come to our churches and hear the truth.  Then, anyone-- all sinners-- can either walk away or repent and receive.  Period.  Out in the world, we are to be a  a neighbor, be a friend to allow the LORD to work in us to be a witness to anyone, LGBT or otherwise.   And, maybe, years later, as it was with my brother-in-law, who wrote me a letter thanking me for sharing the Gospel with him and my husband, will make it worth tolerating their sin for a time.  Not accepting it as NOT sin.  But understanding sin is sin to the LORD, and we are all that too without His justification and ongoing sanctifcation.

 

Personally, I've been around many LBGT having worked for many years in San Francisco.  I can say I had no problems in my dealings with anyone LGBT back then as it wasn't quite the militant, political entity it is today.  Still, it was SF where LGBT was pretty "out" even in the early 80s.   I found each person who was gay (three men I knew personally died from AIDS in about a six month period) to be kind and did their work well, and I treated them with respect and dignity.  I didn't treat them any differently than anyone else.  But, I've seen how bad it is for them in their personal lives as a couple of people shared.  The "gay" life is not all it's cracked up to be.  They will seldom admit it.  But, many will, as a few did to me, admit they are living a messed up life.  Then, you're there to listen and lead as God directs.  I never led anyone like that to Christ, but maybe the pain of the life will get God prodding.

 

SO, is it legalistic to boot out LGBT from the church?  Not if they've been hearing the truth as scripture directs and still insist on living the sin.  Just like any other sin.  Yet, if they want to repent, let's let them have time with the LORD and our help and love.  But, I'd simply leave any church or ministry that is very tolerant of LBGT in that it isn't considered sin.  It's a lie that's being perpetuated within the church, as are many other lies, like outright occult practices that the average Christian doesn't see for what it is. Take away 4013c status and we'll see the church change drastically!!

 

My husband and I attended a small group bible study a few years ago. A young couple got saved.  When he brought up that his brother is gay and he thought it was fine and not sin, the pastor just said plainly it is.  He was kind about it.  But, the couple left the church and the group.  Maybe that was good.  It's the truth they refused to hear.  No one was mean to them.  Truth was told in a loving way.

 

Maybe watch some Youtube with Ravi Zacharias on homosexuality.  He's so loving , but truthful.

 

 

Maybe this is kind of a rambling post, and not what you're looking for specifically.   it's simple in the end I guess.

 

Refuel with the Word daily to deal with this  It's necessary to be washed by water of the WORD as we get our feet filthy dirty walking in this world daily.

 

Have a good day in the LORD.

 

Love,
Candice


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#4 Jesus_Lolly

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 05:02 AM

What is the church? 

How are persons saved?

John the Baptist and Jesus both preached that repentance is the first step toward salvation (Mt. 3:2; 4:17).

Legalism fails to recognize that faith alone saves; thus, it is not legalistic to exhort ALL persons to repent and believe.

 

Early Christians were not persecuted so much for their faith in Jesus. Certainly, the Romans

welcomed belief in many gods. The persecution came when the Christians refrained from

engaging in the worldview of the culture around them. Many were offered a choice--just a little pinch

of incense to Caesar and live! Many refused and died.

 

Jesus speaks directly to this issue through John in the Book of Revelation. To one group,

He states, "You allow that woman Jezebel who calls herself a prophetess to teach and

seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. And I

gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed, I

will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great

tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds" (2:20-22). 

 

The Lord also states: "Do not fear any of those things you are about to suffer ..." (Rev 2:10).

Thus, Jesus confirms to us that He would rather see us face persecution than relent

and embrace the culture. In fact, He infers that those who fail to stand are removed

from places of influence--and He is quite unhappy with them.

 

We are in the last days. I wish to see a Jesus who is happy to see me when He returns.

If that means I will have to face scorn from those who are disobedient--so be it.


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#5 Tony Davison

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 05:52 AM

The reason I started this post was because at church I am a worship leader and I commented on my frustration with the world view and I was told by someone they were offended by my comment. I was told I was hateful towards the LGBT community. Something I did not say to that person was when I was involved in a organization that was helping people with AIDS back in the 80's. We would go and visit the people who were infected and help them in anyway I was more the practical person so I would fix things. This one particular person got real bad so I visited Him in the Hospital, I told him I was really concerned about where He was going to spend eternity. He did not know so I gave Him the gospel, two weeks later I visited Him again and he was really bad. He was a proud man and asked if I could help him to the washroom in the hospital. After I got Him there he said thank you Brother  and proceeded to tell me He now knew where he was going after death. I was the last one to talk to Him on this earth that night.


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#6 Candice

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 08:30 AM

Lolly

You put forth, “Who is the church”? And that is indeed at the crux of all things controversial, heretical and just plain off target.
Satan brings confusion. Not the Lord.
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#7 Julie Daube

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 09:35 AM

I haven't had time to read all of the replies, but some are really good based on a cursory glance. I wanted to quickly post this thought that a believer shared with me once, which seems to apply well to this discussion: "Truth without grace is bullying; grace without truth is enabling."


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#8 Jesus_Lolly

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 12:56 PM

The reason I started this post was because at church I am a worship leader and I commented on my frustration with the world view and I was told by someone they were offended by my comment. I was told I was hateful towards the LGBT community. Something I did not say to that person was when I was involved in a organization that was helping people with AIDS back in the 80's. We would go and visit the people who were infected and help them in anyway I was more the practical person so I would fix things. This one particular person got real bad so I visited Him in the Hospital, I told him I was really concerned about where He was going to spend eternity. He did not know so I gave Him the gospel, two weeks later I visited Him again and he was really bad. He was a proud man and asked if I could help him to the washroom in the hospital. After I got Him there he said thank you Brother  and proceeded to tell me He now knew where he was going after death. I was the last one to talk to Him on this earth that night.

 

It sounds to me like your heart is in the right place. We are to go the extra mile, and we are to love. We then pray that the lost will see something in us that makes them want Jesus. Our lives here are short--we hope to  get as many to heaven as possible. 

 

Blessings,

Lolly


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#9 Candice

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 10:46 PM

Think of the story of the Samaritan.
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#10 Jesus_Lolly

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 05:02 AM

   

February 27. 2018


Overcoming Temptation


By Michael Youssef, Ph.D.


Do not become discouraged when you feel that the world is hopeless. The world can be changed for good, and God will give you the strength to stand up for His Truth. God will reward you when you speak the Truth to those who are in error. God will reward you when you maintain godly living in an ungodly culture. God will reward you when you fully trust Him and strive for spiritual integrity no matter what circumstances you face.


Trust that God will help you to withstand the forces of evil in any situation. Trust that God will give you the strength to overcome the temptations of the world. "For the grace of God that has appeared offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say 'No' to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age" (Titus 2:11-12).


What diet do you feed upon? Are you feasting on unclean spiritual food, as the Babylonians did? Or are you following Daniel's example, keeping your soul healthy by feeding on God's Word? To combat the evil of this world, you need a steady diet of God's Word. "Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil" (Hebrews 5:13-14).


Prayer: God, I pray that Your Spirit would convict and motivate me to seek Your Truth in Scripture every day. Give me the strength to overcome temptation. I pray in the name of Jesus. Amen.


"Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted" (Hebrews 2:18). 


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#11 Phil

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 07:18 AM

This can be a nasty topic, but how do others cope with the pressure of the world view that is being infiltrated into the church? For instance LGBT rights, christians will tell you we have to except them at all cost. I know I love the sinner but hate the sin. People are not satisfied with them being just there they say they should be aloud to do anything in the church. Are there ways to deal with these things without being legalistic?

 

The Holy Bible is always right and we as Christians are not to deviate or change the Word of God. Just follow the Word and don't worry about what the World thinks. We need to stay focused on pleasing God, not pleasing political and/or social groups. https://www.openbibl...hange_gods_word

 

*I left the PCUSA because they've deviated from God's Word. Don't be shy people...trust the Holy Bible!


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#12 Bill Duncan

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 05:06 PM

We require people to be members before they can be on boards or serve as leaders and teachers.  To become a member they must confirm our statement of faith and support it. The LGBT wont be able to confirm nor support it and should not be in leadership as they will be teaching their philosophy and not the church doctrine. You may consider it legalistic, but Satan is trying to infiltrate your church and you must not allow it.


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#13 Charles Miles

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 12:29 PM

Throughout my life in the medical field, I have known, worked with, and treated gays.(LBGT is too confusing)  I have never been confrontational about their lifestyle being sinful unless asked a direct question about my opinion on the subject. My response has always been that I don`t have an opinion, but God does. Then go on and show them in the Bible what is said about homosexuality.

 I certainly do not hate anyone for their sin, for if I did, I might have to wonder what Jesus saw in me several years ago that He could love. Should gays come to church? Absolutely! Should they hold church office and lead the youth group? Absolutely not! Can homosexuals be Christians? Can a sinner be a Christian? Should a non-Christian be a church officer or teacher? The answers seem so simple and most of us could click off the answers very quickly, but wait just a minute. I am a SS teacher, choir member, and elder, do I sin?  Hmmm...

  We are all sinners, but as Christians, our sin nature should be gone and replaced by God`s Grace with His own Justification. Certainly we should not teach our sin to others as an alternate "lifestyle" and ask Christians to accept it as such. If you have read this far, let me assure you now that I am not a homosexual, gay, or LBGT, whatever. 

  We can get loads of studies about the gay lifestyle and how harmless it is, but that is simply not the truth! If there is anywhere we should be able to hear the truth, it should be in our churches. Teach and preach the Bible and the truth will be told. The church should not be a place where everyone is told that whatever they think is right is OK.  If the truth make someone uncomfortable then they are probably needing to think about change. If driving a car at 100mph and you pass a sign saying "road ends 1/2 mile" then I think you have just received some truth that should encourage some change.


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#14 Meema

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 05:09 AM

I’ve been kind of busy lately and haven’t had time to come in here but I think God led me to this thread today. I have some things to share.

 

First, I really appreciate this discussion but it’s a much bigger issue than simply considering how to treat gays from a Christian stand point. I do agree we are in the last days, when satan has pulled out the stops - no holds barred. He is working in every which way, on every level to undermine and destroy the true Church. Almost seems like it’s manic now.

 

So, the question was posed, what is the Church? Without going into boring details of my experience, I tell you that the TRUE CHURCH is not a body of believers who gather in a building every Sunday and Wednesday night.

 

No, the True Church is the rag tag body of followers of Christ, a remnant, that may or may not belong to a 401c3 organization that is designated Christian. In this strange age there is a huge uptick in the numbers of people who are fleeing organized religion, enough numbers to form a trackable statistic. More Americans, than ever before, have disassociated themselves from church. Why? 

 

Well, speaking as a Christian who has not belonged to a congregation in more than six decades, who also has had to remain silent for so long because no one could understand my position, I know the answer.

 

When I tell you that this topic is much deeper and wider, you have to know that evil is working in ways that, on the surface, have nothing to do with church. 

 

I recently had a conversation with someone who reads reports from a group of scientists who have researched the uptick in gay and transgender population. One paper revealed that many vaccines are produced by using cells from aborted fetuses. Whether those who support abortion believe it or not, chromosomes do matter - XX or XY is present in the fetus. When a vaccine, made from either male or female, is injected into a child of the opposite sex, the body recognizes the difference and then must assimilate. 

 

Confusion ensues.

 

Confusion is satan’s most commonly used tactic, is it not? To understand that the war with dark principalities begins at the cellular level is the beginning of understanding of what is happening to the church. And, yes, the True Church is now in the beginning stages of going underground. But even that is not the whole picture. 

 

To identify the age of the Great Delusion, one has to see all the moving parts. To hijack the biology of humanity with the murder of babies, the modern version of sacrifice to the god Moloch, is the first step and all too ironic. The second requires a replacement of worship of the true God to the god of SELF. This is a subtle transition that has been introduced ever so carefully, almost like a slow poison. A generation or more has been taught that to feel is more important than to think so this undermines the ability to discern. To feel - to feel - to feel - to be emotional - to be caught up into the passion of good feeling words and actions that make humans FEEL soooo good and righteous. The problem, of course, is that it is only imitation - it’s not real but only illusion. 

 

All of which came together to get us to this place and time. What is the next step then?


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#15 Candice

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 06:22 PM

Meema
This is the frog in the pot of water and the heat is raised slowly so it doesn’t jump out but dies. A subtle poisoning verses the frog that jumps into a hot frying pan will jump right out to save it’s life.

Look up on the internet Rick Warren and Elton John. So many people have been slowly duped with the seeker sensitive movement.

There is strong delusion but we want mans input and it’s a slow boil.
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#16 Meema

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 01:43 PM

HI Candice!

 

Referencing Ravi’s POV, and I always love his talks, I still am left wondering what we, as Christians are supposed to do when confronted with a situation that compromises our Christian beliefs. To say we must love, just love - love the sinner but not the sin is not quite specific enough. Should a Christian baker be forced to bake a cake for a gay marriage? Remember, the key to this issue is not about selling without discrimination. If the baker had a cake on the shelf to sell, then civil rights laws should allow for anyone to give money for it. But to be purposefully challenged to craft and design a cake that specifically celebrates a union that Christianity rejects as outside the laws of God, then if the baker refuses, is this a stand for religious beliefs or is it homophobia? 

 

If a Christian baker advertised that he would bake a cake for anyone, for any occasion, can that be interpreted as loving the sinner and ignoring the sin or is it just overthinking here that  a thing, like a cake could represent so much? 

 

Inquiring minds want to know...



#17 Candice

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 05:08 PM

Hi Meema,

 

I believe the baker has a right to refuse to make the cake.  Period.  

 

We need to be bold, but in the US, now one the most difficult nations to evangelize, boldness will get you persecuted.  This is persecution. Period.  Do we avoid it?  I think we are doing so mostly because I seldom witness anyone sharing the Gospel.  People argue issues and fail to share the light.

 

The cake is the issue over which the persecution came.  

 

The legal system is part of the world system and the baker now has to either reject using it or go along and hope he's protected.  I've not heard the final outcome of this matter.  Have you?

 

I'm gonna post something on the Light soon.  I think it helps.  


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#18 Tony Davison

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 03:43 AM

I am on the Huron Residential Hospice Board and there was a crucial vote April 10

There will be NO MAiD (Medically Assisted in Death ) in Huron Residential Hospice a very large percent of the nurses interviewed said they would not work for us if we had it. Also we were told that that donations would probably stop if we put MAid in. Two Board members out of 13 board members  wanted it. God has won another battle. World view was shut down last week in our small area of Ontario, there are many more battles to be won because the battle is not ours.


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#19 Phil

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 04:36 PM

Meema
This is the frog in the pot of water and the heat is raised slowly so it doesn’t jump out but dies. A subtle poisoning verses the frog that jumps into a hot frying pan will jump right out to save it’s life.

Look up on the internet Rick Warren and Elton John. So many people have been slowly duped with the seeker sensitive movement.

There is strong delusion but we want mans input and it’s a slow boil.

 

Amen Candice! There's a lot of so called Christians who care more about what others think than what God thinks. They can sugar coat it all they want, but they can't fool God. They've become slaves to public persona...going along to get along. They've either dismissed, or haven't even read what the Bible say's about lukewarm faith. And the only one you're pleasing if you do that is Satan himself. If you truly believe in what the Bible say's you will NOT deviate from the Word of God no matter what others tell you. Don't sell out, be bold in your faith!