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Hate Your Family But Provide


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#1 Candice

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 11:54 AM

I struggle to reconcile the verses below. I’ve been stuck on this chapter in my bible reading for some time. Of course, I read both verses in context and believe I know what each means in some way as I always thought of it a certain way.

I ask this and seek others’ input:
1. Jesus means put Him before others. Or literally HATE? Pl ask explain. I believe this refers to a loving relationship with Him that makes other relationships look like hate?

2. In Timothy, we provide and give and serve our families first. Families being believers? As in “especially the house of God”? Put them first, but HATE them. I doubt this is an emotional definition of hate.

Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
27 "And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.

1Tim 5:8 “Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”

I have an unbelieving son and sister. Do I turn from them?
Do I HATE them? I’m persecuted, but turn the other cheek frequently with both of them.

Is Jesus just saying He’s first?

I really want to become clear on this.
Thanks in advance for your fellowship, rebuke and encouragement.....whatever should come from this.

Candice

#2 Meema

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 03:31 AM

I can only address this from my own personal experience.

 

Hate is just a word. Four letters combined to convey an idea. But even so that’s not specific. Have you ever used it to express annoyance - “I hate blue cheese dressing!” I could use other words - “I really don’t like the taste of blue cheese dressing” - but what this demonstrates is that the way we use language is rooted in our culture and so we have to assume the same dynamic for any other era. Many words have multiple definitions and usage.

 

The original text of the Scriptures was not composed in English, of course, so translation has always been an issue. But that’s easy to forget when we are reading with our minds hoping to understand because we trust our language to explain itself. 

 

When I don’t understand a passage because the language seems to challenge my understanding I set it aside rather than labor over it because I know first hand this is a trap that has led many down the legalism road. I have been reading the Bible from Genesis to Revelation over and over again for better than 60 years. The words, that I read with my mind, have often not been clear for me until one day, once my spirit has matured (yet again) and suddenly I read a verse I have read many times and I see the meaning in a way that stuns me. The words (letter) on the page are the same, but in that moment of growth, the spirit is all new, the meaning is deeper/wider.

 

Sometimes, in those moments of new insight, I get a scary glimpse into how small I really am. How myopic. It’s a humbling experience. For this reason I am in a constant state of expectation now. What wonders are there, what true definitions of the words hate and love exist that I am blind to - at this stage of my journey?

 

I feel your pain regarding loved ones who are non-believers and that you must suffer slings and arrows. I do not believe you are supposed to hate them as the word hate is commonly used. But if you were challenged to walk away from them to follow Christ, what would your choice be? What if someone, watching this scenario unfold, accused you of hating your son and sister if you chose to walk toward Christ? See? Words are just tools that can be used all sorts of ways. We communicate as best we can with those tools. I have to believe that God communicates with us in a language we can’t understand until we are ready to hear. 

 

Anyway, that’s just my take on the issue.


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#3 reader

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 05:47 AM

The word 'hate'  as used in Luke 14:26 is not to hate as we think of it but to 'love less' meaning to put God in His rightful position of first in our lives. I understand it then to mean everything else must fall below Him. This meaning according to Strong's Greek Dictionary is from the Greek word  miseo,  (mis-eh'-o).

 

This same Greek word is used in Mt 5:43-44 (kjv) Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate (love less) thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate (love less) you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

 

You might enjoy Power Bible CD ( http://powerbible.com/)or E-Sword ( http://www.e-sword.net/) where you can find quite a lot of help with Bible Study.  


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#4 ADVRider

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 07:20 AM

Take a look at this parallel passage, Matthew 10:33-39. It helps make sense of it I think.

 

33“But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

      34“Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35“For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; 36and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.

      37“He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38“And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39“He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.


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#5 Candice

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 11:53 AM

Meema, I agree and relate to this in that I can read the bible many times and not see something and it suddenly dawns on me because I wasn't ready or needful of that verse some years prior. 

I get stuck on something, and you're correct, it leads to something on my part that can be a legalistic response.  I often wonder if I should even communicate with my sister and she's far gone and adamantly atheist and antagonistic about Jesus.  But, the Lord would not want that.  However, I could move to Haiti to be a teacher/missionary, and not have communication because the Lord has sent me.  Got it!

Thanks for your thoughtful response. You get this after 60 years!  

 

Reader AND ADVRider, thank you.  I'm going to check out Powerbible! 

Reader, have you used BlueLetterBible.com???

 I've considered the verses you provide and kind of really believed it is love God more or others less than Him as well.  If I have to pick.

 

Loving your enemies makes sense in this context as well.  I guess my sister and my son are my enemies, and I 've often prayed to the Lord in that sense, acknowledging this to Him that I'm hurt but know they are doing it to YOU LORD.   TURN THE OTHER CHEEK HAPPENS OFTEN! 

 

Sometimes I believe I must PROVE my loyalty to the LORD by literally taking action.  It's the flesh.  It's that simple when I'm on that track.  I guess I sometimes want to pick between the two.

 

Thank you.


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#6 ADVRider

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 12:31 PM

Keep in mind maybe, that when Jesus said these things, He was speaking to an ancient middle-eastern culture where the family and the home was very much a unit. When one member of the family did something that was socially offensive, the whole family, especially the "head," suffered embarrassment. I think that's why Jesus emphasized the sharp enmity that could take place within a family unit. When someone turned to faith, that was radical, especially if the head of the family did not endorse it. I believe Jesus was mainly saying, in these instances, you have to decide who you are going to follow because the opposition from the family could be quite intense, even hostile. We know for example, Muslim converts can face death from family members. 

 

Even in my own Catholic family, my father and mother seemed glad when I got "saved" because my life took a turn for the better, but they were also chagrined that I took a different way (not Catholic) to get there. That seemed to bother my father more than his happiness for me. Eventually, it was not that way, but not in the beginning. 

 

I think in the modern, individualistic west, we do not face nearly the level of family tension that people in the culture Jesus lived in, although the principle is still the same. Still, there are instances where people do face persecution even from close relatives. 


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#7 Candice

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:58 PM

ADVRider,

I think that is spot on.  I was thinking about the Jewish setting of family working as it does in many aspects of life as Jesus experienced it, as well as his Jewish disciples.  That's why it's important to know context.  Some fail to see this Jewish mindset exists in the text, even in the Old Testament. 

 

I relate to being raised Catholic.  I'm 60 and was brought up in Vatican I and II.  It is hard for me to get rid of those roots and I know many Catholics who suffer because they question their salvation from time to time due to Catholic teaching.

 

We are truly not persecuted here in the US as other countries have cultures and religions that intensely persecute for a convert to Christ.  If it happens here, it may well turn "the church" around cause it will certainly clear out those who are only interested in a prosperity gospel, etc. 

 

Nabeel Quereshi, a former Muslim, and apologist for Ravi Zacharias just died of cancer at 34 years old.  He was persecuted to the end by many Muslims via online social media venues, and threats were not missing for him.  Thankfully, he lived and preached Christ in a loving way.  He withstood the tension to the very end.

 

I appreciate your insight.


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#8 ADVRider

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 02:59 PM

I just looked up 1 Timothy chapter 5 where the verse, "providing for his own or his own household" is sandwiched between verses specifically speaking of widows. We already know "true religion" is providing for the widows and the orphans. Could it be that the context is specifically referring primarily to providing for widows in your immediate and extended family? It seems to be such as the passage is read in context. Someone who would not therefore, take care of even the widow in his own family would be castigated as worse than the unbeliever, because that person is a relative and especially at the mercy of someone to help. There was no social security or welfare, just family or the church. But if you read this carefully, Paul is clear under what conditions that a widow could, or could not be, supported by the church. Thus, the strong condemnation of a family that would not help one of its own.

Edited by ADVRider, 29 September 2017 - 07:43 PM.

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#9 Candice

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 07:56 PM

ADVRider, thank you for that comment on 1 Tim. 5.  We are, indeed, not in that culture or time or society any longer, and it's sad.  The disintegration of the nuclear family and the extended family so distant and divided, especially in the West.  Even the Japanese, for the most part and despite their resistance to the Gospel, honor their elderly and widows, etc. 

 

I've been to Haiti, those people take care of the elderly who are generally elderly by age 55 due to poor health and nutrition. There's just a sad loss of family care.  Maybe we should impact widows more here....neighbors, etc.  Just messed up.  We ought to help but, as Paul indicates, the family needs to take care of the widow first; the church is not the primary one to do that.



#10 Julie Daube

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 09:59 AM

Hey Candice,

 

I didn't read all the responses to your original post, but I think you nailed it in the following question you asked: "Is Jesus just saying He’s first?" I would say yes. I also believe he was using hyperbole in Luke 14:26, just as he was when he told people to take the plank out of their own eyes before examining the speck in someone else's.


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#11 Candice

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 07:16 PM

Hi Julie!  Hope all is well in the Springs.  Thanks for your comment. 



#12 reader

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 06:59 PM

Candice,

 

I apologize for taking so long to get back to you.  I can claim busy but that would not be all together true.

 

You asked if I had ever read  BlueLetterBible.com and I had not but have now.  I thoroughly enjoy Ray Comfort material and will be utilizing this tool more often.  Thank You!

 

Reader 


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