Jump to content


Photo

Is Tozer Old-Fashioned? Out of Touch with Reality?


  • Please log in to reply
6 replies to this topic

#1 Tkulp

Tkulp

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 90 posts
  • Location:Arkansas
  • Interests:Studying the Word as the Spirit directs.
    Sharing what I learn about the Truth of the Word of God.
    Aquaponics / rooting plant starts / Living on God's provisions
    Learning about wild edibles, Herbs and the God's natural provisions for life, both physical and spiritual.
    Raising cattle
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Layperson

  • I attend a non-Alliance church
  • Coop Prairie

Posted 03 August 2017 - 07:01 AM

I have not been reading the Tozer devotionals lately! Have you? What was in Tozer's heart when he wrote these devotionals?  Do you even Care?

 

What occupies your heart and mind? Where or What is your will up to? Where and on What do you focus your time? What influences are you placing yourself under?

 

What does the "Deeper Life" mean to you...   an internet forum, a concept, a wish, a goal, a passion ....or something you rarely think about? (Matthew 13:44-46)

 

I have been dealing with a number of personal issues lately and trying to concentrate on the Scripture; just to keep my head above water, so to speak.

 

In doing that, there is only so much time in each of our lives. Devotionals, being what they are, can be nourishing meat or weak sugar water. Therefore, devotionals are not number one, in my mind, to receive spiritual strength from, the Spirit taught Word is my top priority!

 

Tozer lost my attention, or I was distracted from his devotional thoughts, about a week or two ago. Today 8/2/17 my pastor brought him back into my mind, by sharing with me the following devotional... <https://www.cmallian...s/tozer?id=891>

 

The Lord than lead me to read more of Tozer's devotionals, only going backward, I read to  the devotional  at ... <https://www.cmallian...s/tozer?id=886>

 

My opinion on Tozer is that he is a bit prophetic in what he has written! The church and its leadership appears to me to be somewhat worse. Tozer is not at all out of touch! Would modern religious people consider him old-fashion? Probably!

 

If you are not overcome by apathy, blindness, deafness or a hard heart and you really want to mature in the Spirit of Jesus Christ, I would recommend reading, very meditatively, the devotionals from < https://www.cmallian...s/tozer?id=886>

to <https://www.cmallian.../tozer?id=905>.

 

My personal experience, to find the deeper life, required the shutting down, in my life, of all the media of the world. The big ones, at that time, were movies and internet news. If you have a passion to grow, I know that our Heavenly Father will clearly point out all the areas, in your life, that must be cleansed of adulterous activity, which are hindering or stopping your relationship with Him. As the worldly influences, not necessarily evil influences, but just worldly, faded, my spiritual eyes and ears started to open up in a new way. I began to see and understand things in the Word of God that I never saw before. The wrong attitudes were being replaced by God's heart and ways. If you rationalize or excuse those areas, in your life, which the Holy Spirit speaks to you about to deal with and do not deal with them, you will be weak or eventually die spiritually!

 

The relative spattering of posts that I have been lead to read since I have become involved in the Alliance Deeper Life Forum do not demonstrate to me that there is very much true comprehension of 'the deeper life' that Tozer writes about in this series of devotionals within the C&MA internet community. I rather have seen, in what is written, the patterns of thinking and living, which are similar to what Tozer is trying to warn the church against especially those within the C&MA organization.

An intimate relationship with the Holy Spirit and obedience to His guidance, is the only true way to abundant life! He knows are hearts and our weaknesses. We must give it our all His way! Do you truly love the Lord your God with ALL your mind, heart, strength, soul, with a passion? If you do, then you will not have the struggle to love your neighbor as yourself, with God's definition of love, not the world or psychology's definition of love.

 

 

Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven.

 

Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name and driven out demons in Your name and done many mighty works in Your name?

 

And then I will say to them openly (publicly), I never knew you; depart from Me, you who act wickedly [disregarding My commands]. [Psa. 6:8]

 

So everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts upon them [obeying them] will be like a sensible (prudent, practical, wise) man who built his house upon the rock.  (Matthew 7:21-23 Amplified)


  • Marvin Harrell likes this

#2 BHerr

BHerr

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts

Posted 05 August 2017 - 09:52 PM

Thank you so much for sharing your passion for the deeper life...for carrying the torch...it keeps me inspired to press in and press on. I never want to become apathetic when it comes to staying in touch with the Father and His will for my life. It's so easy to settle into "surface vision" and miss the comfort and strength God has made available if we're willing to go deeper.
  • Marvin Harrell likes this

#3 Candice

Candice

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 839 posts
  • Location:Big Horn, Wyoming
  • Interests:Bible study and deeper life in Christ, reading old and wise teachers like Tozer and Major Ian Thomas. Skiing, snowshoeing, hiking, flyfishing. Also love writing, gardening and cooking exotic foods.
  • Gender:Female
  • I am a Layperson

  • I attend a non-Alliance church

Posted 01 September 2017 - 03:53 PM

My personal experience, to find the deeper life, required the shutting down, in my life, of all the media of the world. The big ones, at that time, were movies and internet news. If you have a passion to grow, I know that our Heavenly Father will clearly point out all the areas, in your life, that must be cleansed of adulterous activity, which are hindering or stopping your relationship with Him.

Tkulp,

 

I have read many of Tozer's books and devotionals.  I love to read the writings of those who are no longer with us as it seems most "modern" writings are rubbish; meant to sell lots of copies.  While I consider Tozer wise and right-on most of the time, I also read his biography.  I don't know that Tozer was the "love expert" as it appears (based on reports of his assistant, his  biographer and his children) that he showed little regard, let alone love, to his wife.  We might say he was neglectful of his marriage.  His ministry work took first place.  When she remarried after his death, she said of her new husband "Aidan Tozer loved God, but ___________love me."  Was she selfish?  So, it's really best to stick with scripture as no man is without sin.  Yet, Tozer is no exception.  Yet, Tozer was definitely phrophetic in his writings about the church age we are now living.  We can't put people on a pedestal.  I've often sought too hard for furtherance of the Christian life, the deeper life, or whatever you call it.  Sometimes I believe people who say they want to go "deeper" into the things of God just end up falling into legalism.   This looks like a pattern I've seen in many. 

 

I agree with checking to see your own personal areas of worldliness.  My husband and I would  watch FoxNews for about an hour or two most weeknights.  I would say that watching the news became a problem for me as I could only take about 10 minutes of Bill O'Reilly and Judge Jeannine.  I would just get very sensitive in my soul.  Not sensitive about exactly what they reported, but something I couldn't put my finger on.    I just had to shut it off and I find no fruit in it at all.  I hardly ever watch any news, but do note some headlines when I check email.  We cannot control N. Korea, Trump, politics or social ills. I know little about what is going on I suppose.  We pray.

 

For me, personally, it is worthless to watch news, especially by the hour as we can always be reading the Word or praying or even studying scripture or listening to sermons.  But, my husband watches nightly and I just have to go in the other room most of the time.   I would, however, caution that anyone judging someone else for watching the news or a movie is, again, at risk for falling into legalism.  If someone reads a news article and then feels condemned.....hmmm.... who's the one who condemns that person?  for instance, I know a lady I discipled for a time.  She is on Facebook constantly.  I do not have a Facebook account.  But, she was so entangled in arguments this past election period. She would tell me how she got into arguments on Facebook and how she dropped friends she'd known for years.  I never told her "Get off Facebook"; although, I wanted to!  She has to learn for herself.  Facebook can be good for keeping up with children, grandchildren and ministries I suppose.  But, she misused it.  It's between her and the Lord.  If I had said something to her, she would have stumbled on it. She's sensitive to any perceived criticism. 

 

I like your post, and it is good to check to see if we're in the faith!

Candice


  • Jesus_Lolly likes this

#4 Tkulp

Tkulp

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 90 posts
  • Location:Arkansas
  • Interests:Studying the Word as the Spirit directs.
    Sharing what I learn about the Truth of the Word of God.
    Aquaponics / rooting plant starts / Living on God's provisions
    Learning about wild edibles, Herbs and the God's natural provisions for life, both physical and spiritual.
    Raising cattle
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Layperson

  • I attend a non-Alliance church
  • Coop Prairie

Posted 11 September 2017 - 09:55 PM

Thank you Candice for your comments!

 

I was aware of Tozer's wife and her comments. You advance the question, was she selfish? You comment on the evils in the world today and in the church.

 

I would pose the question, is it not all due to selfishness? Is that not what Satan has been feeding on in the lives of humanity since creation? Was it not selfishness that caused Eve to eat what she knew was wrong to eat. The ideas that Satan placed in her head that she could help her and her husband have what God was trying to keep them from. The knowledge of good and evil?

 

How many woman today have a passion to study the Bible to learn and understand what God would say to woman, single and married? How many woman long to be silent in church and seek wisdom from their husbands at home? How many, like Eve, believe that God did not mean what He said when He said to be silent? How many wives think that they are more spiritual than their fleshly husbands? Know more of what God wants than their God ordained head does?

 

I am reminded of what Paul said to the Corinthians, "The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband."

 

If Tozer's wife would have been focused on pleasing her husband she might not have had time to consider what she received, or thought that she should receive.

 

Speaking of Tozer's wife I am also reminded of one of J.B. Meyer's devotionals. "Why do so many marriages turn out ill?   Is it not often because each seeks rather to get than to give, to be ministered to rather than to minister?

 If each were inspired by a love that made the other the center of thought and care and tenderness, the wedding-bells would ring on through all the passing years."

From JB Meyers Devotional  September 10  “THE ATTRACTION OF CHRIST’S HUMANITY”

 

I know that in Ephesians Paul compares the relationship that a woman is to have with her husband to be the same as the husband is to have with Christ.

 

Would it be proper for a man to say of Christ, that He did not love me as I should have been loved? He did not give me the care and things that I needed?

 

In a sense I hear Paul saying that the husband is to be a type of Christ for the wife. She is told to submit, to honor, to surrender her identity, to become one flesh with the husband. All the very things that the man is supposed to be in relationship with Christ.

 

No, I do not think that Tozer's wife should have spoken of her husband as she did, as I do not think that man should speak of God with a lack of reverence and respect that they sometimes do.

 

In my own mind, I believe that in most cases, just as God will give man the desires of his heart IF he delights himself in Him; so a husband will give to the wife the desires of her heart IF she truly delights in him and is pleasing him in all ways, totally losing sight of herself, as the Bible instructs! Even as Peter says, having a gentle quiet spirit, even as Sarah consider Abraham her Lord, Master. The woman that learns to do things God's way instead of her own way is the real winner and will most often win the admiration of her husband.

 

Yes, Candice, we are living in a very self-centered age. As Americans we all have and demand our rights. No one is to be a door mat. No one is to suffer unjustly as Christ did. How can we really be Christians when we do not do it God's way??? When we reason, rationalize and think that we know better???

 

 

 



#5 Candice

Candice

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 839 posts
  • Location:Big Horn, Wyoming
  • Interests:Bible study and deeper life in Christ, reading old and wise teachers like Tozer and Major Ian Thomas. Skiing, snowshoeing, hiking, flyfishing. Also love writing, gardening and cooking exotic foods.
  • Gender:Female
  • I am a Layperson

  • I attend a non-Alliance church

Posted 12 September 2017 - 11:29 AM

1 Cor 7:14 "God has called you to live in peace.…"

All matters relate to the goal of peace in the marriage; mutual submission is biblical: “Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ”.  We need to think about Christ and the testimony we show the world. Peace.



#6 Tkulp

Tkulp

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 90 posts
  • Location:Arkansas
  • Interests:Studying the Word as the Spirit directs.
    Sharing what I learn about the Truth of the Word of God.
    Aquaponics / rooting plant starts / Living on God's provisions
    Learning about wild edibles, Herbs and the God's natural provisions for life, both physical and spiritual.
    Raising cattle
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Layperson

  • I attend a non-Alliance church
  • Coop Prairie

Posted 15 September 2017 - 12:34 PM

Thanks again, Candice.

 

It seems as if we may be on a side trail to the original post, but in reality, we are not.  In Tozer's devo he says, "We must have a new reformation. There must come a violent break with that irresponsible, amusement-mad, paganized pseudo-religion which passes today for the faith of Christ and which is being spread all over the world by unspiritual men employing scriptural methods to achieve their ends."

 

In another devo, Tozer struggles with the church following the world. We will never know if some of his beliefs disagreed with his wite's causing a struggle in the marriage?

 

In 1 Corinthians 7 Paul is dealing with, I believe, cases where one of the spouses becomes a believer and the other does not. Does the believer hold the marriage together, especially in light of Paul's beliefs as expressed in 2 Corinthians 6:14 ...not to be unequally yoked with an unbeliever?

 

There are situations that are very hard to live in and really hear from the Lord in regard to; especially when we are in the center of it and the flesh is screaming for deliverance.

 

Each of us has different levels of faith, trust, relationship and the ability to trust. Peter was the only one that asked to walk on water. He did and ended up sinking. Jesus spoke to him of his little faith. It does not say what Jesus thought of the other 11.

 

So a man or woman in a hard pressed situation can choose different paths. Paul encouraged to choose the pathway of Peace! The preferred for me is to learn, know and obey the promptings of the Holy Spirit.

 

Jesus told us about the heart of God and why the Law of Moses said what it did regarding marrage. Peter gives another solution, if you have patience, endurance, humility, etc. by telling the woman how she can change a man's heart without saying a word. Again some of that is rather up in the air for interpretation by the reader and the faith or ability to live it out.

 

Then you have the church that is more worldly than Godly, that brings in and puts the worldly spin on the church. That is where I see things as being today, far worse than it was in Tozer's day. The divorce rate being basically the same in the church as in the world. Something is definitely wrong!!

 

Personally, in regard to submission,  I go to Paul's letter to the Corinthians. I want to focus on what he says about all of the key relationships. 1Co 11:3  But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

Christ is the head of the man! How is the man supposed to respond or relate to his head, Jesus Christ? Is it a 50-50 relationship? Is Christ to submit to man as man submits to Christ? Are Christ and man to submit to one another equally?

 

I see no Biblical difference in the obvious answers to each of the above questions for any of those relationships. Each is to submit to their head, the one over them.

 

(I do not consider any feminism to be Biblical. I do not believe that Paul taught or believed in a 50-50 marriage or a 100-100 marriage. He told the woman to be quiet in the meetings and to ask her husband when she got home.)

 

(Each individual better have a good handle on the Spirit of the Word of God and obey what the Holy Spirit is telling them. That is what we will answer for when each of us individually stand before the Judge.)

 

(I do not believe when you are in an employment situation that you will find  any 50-50 relationships. The boss carries the last word, and according to the business, maybe the only word. That is what I see in the Bible. Paul wrote primarily to the male leadership. My understanding of the context of the entire Word of God is that it is written primarily to the man. It is his responsibility to teach it to the wives. The wives teach the younger children until they come to maturity, than the leadership transfers to the appropriate headship, authority.)

 

True Biblical peace is submission to God's way! The Word teaches that I, my selfish way must die. God must be the didtator, the Lord of ALL of me.

 

1Pe 3:5-6  For in the same way the holy women who hoped in God long ago adorned themselves by being subject to their husbands, like Sarah who obeyed Abraham, calling him lord (supreme in authority, that is, (as noun) controller). You become her children when you do what is good and have no fear in doing so.
 

In a marriage, if the husband is recognized and accepted as the one and only controller, with the will of the wife in total submission, as man is to be with Christ, there will be real Peace!



#7 Candice

Candice

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 839 posts
  • Location:Big Horn, Wyoming
  • Interests:Bible study and deeper life in Christ, reading old and wise teachers like Tozer and Major Ian Thomas. Skiing, snowshoeing, hiking, flyfishing. Also love writing, gardening and cooking exotic foods.
  • Gender:Female
  • I am a Layperson

  • I attend a non-Alliance church

Posted 20 September 2017 - 12:24 PM

I apologize for the delayed response. 

 

I think I gotcha.