22 replies to this topic

[Thinker]

He or she usually shows up on Sunday at his or her local church. Sometimes, they are not too concerned about being late. They visit. They take care of responsibilities. They settle in to their pew and half-heartedly participate. When the service ends, they head home or perhaps to friends; maybe to a restaurant. How much of Sunday afternoon does God receive from them? Will they come out Sunday night? What about prayer meeting? How much does God figure into their weekly activities? What kind and what quality of time is spent in the Word and prayer? Do they have a ministry or other type of service? How these and other similar questions are answered will give a profile of a casual Christian or a committed Christian. We are responsible for our profile. God grant that it will be that of a committed Christian! Jesus had His own way of putting it. Of the casual Christian, He said, "I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of My mouth." (From Revelation 3:15-16). Selah! A Christianity that is not lived out may fail us when we face death.      Thinker  (Ron)

[Kenny]

There is no lukewarmness in hell. There is no lukewarmness in heaven. Lukewarmness is found in the Church. - Andrew Bonar

[radar]

Same book but different Revelation. But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and remember your first love; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place-- unless you repent.… (Rev 2:4-5)....Ichabod!

 

Shalom,

 

radar

[Meema]

Hebrews 10:26-31
For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, 'Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,' says the Lord. And again, 'The LORD will judge His people.' 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

[chipped china]

I've been listening to an audio bible lately, specifically Isaiah and Ezekiel. The absolute Power and Majesty of the Lord makes me tremble and reminds me to always take my salvation seriously and with awe. Sometimes it gets easy to see Christ as our loving Savior and feel safe under His Wing forgetting the whole counsel of God. Our upmost responsibility is too Glorify Him and know every moment why we are here. I pray that He takes all the lukewarmness (new word)out of us.

[Kenny]

 

From Isaiah 6

 

^6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and his train filled the temple. ^6:2 Above him stood the seraphim: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. ^6:3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is Jehovah of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. ^6:4 And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. ^6:5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, Jehovah of hosts.

 

From Rev. 4:8

 

And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; andthey were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

 

Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty!

Early in the morning our song shall rise to Thee;
Holy, holy, holy, merciful and mighty!
God in three Persons, blessèd Trinity!

 

Holy, holy, holy! All the saints adore Thee,
Casting down their golden crowns around the glassy sea;
Cherubim and seraphim falling down before Thee,
Who was, and is, and evermore shall be.

 

Holy, holy, holy! though the darkness hide Thee,
Though the eye of sinful man Thy glory may not see;
Only Thou art holy; there is none beside Thee,
Perfect in power, in love, and purity.

 

Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty!
All Thy works shall praise Thy Name, in earth, and sky, and sea;
Holy, holy, holy; merciful and mighty!
God in three Persons, blessèd Trinity!

[Kenny]

Someone once said . . . 

 

Casual Christian's become Christian Casualties

 

hmmmmmmmmm!!!

[radar]

Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.   Isa 8:13

[chipped china]

Kenny, I love that hymn, Holy Holy Holy. I like the old hymns the best. Have you ever noticed the old hymns are filled with pronouns like us and we and now hymns are filled with I's? Maybe I'm wrong...

I'm not too crazy about the saying Casual Christians become Christian causalities. It infers a Christian can lose their salvation and don't believe that. It may be they were never saved in the first place but Jesus loses not one.
John 10

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

I also believe,
Matt.7: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The only reason I say this is because some of the believers on this site wrestle with their salvation because Satan attacks them with old teachings embedded from childhood.

Eph. 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

This is all that is needed for eternal life.

Most of the people that come to this site are saved (I believe) Please just tread lightly so not to cause them to stumble. In Christ's love, betsy

[Meema]

The “once saved always saved” debate flummoxes me. It reminds me of the parable of the blind men describing the elephant. They declare what they believe based only on the part they can touch.

 

The reason the debate cannot be resolved is because there are as many Scriptures and interpretations of Scripture to support one side of the argument as the other. There have always been the hitch-hikers, as far back as the church in Corinth, who know a good thing when they see it and grab onto the Grace thing and then use it as a free pass to do as they please. Are they saved? Were they ever saved? If one does as he pleases  under the Grace umbrella and then repents just before breathing his last is he saved then? If he didn’t repent was he saved because he claimed to be?

 

What if we turned it all 180 degrees and looked at it from another perspective? Maybe trying to see it from God’s POV because, after all, He does know who is and who isn’t His. 

 

Let me preface this by saying I have studied human nature all of my life. Just a hobby, an intense interest. It goes hand in hand with my obsession in foundational truth. I like to know what is true, not the kinda sorta good enough truth. Sometimes truth is more like an onion than a hard ball; it can have many layers. Over time I have learned some powerful basics about the way humans behave and the way God handles each expression of  human behavior according to His personal relationship with the individual. Bottom line, He knows us, one on One. He knows every little thing about us. If He can know the number of hairs on our heads, He certainly can know the depth and hidden places in our hearts.

 

He knows us. He knows our strengths and our disabilities, whether physical, mental or emotional. He knows we are easily tempted. He knows how well we fight off or give into the attacks on our weak spots. He knows we have good days and not so good. He knows we can be spiritually brilliant one day and complete slugs the next.

 

He knows our flesh is weak and so it is our hearts that must define us. So long as we desire Him, seek HIm, and want to please Him, we live in His Grace. We can’t be perfect but we can always be improved. It’s a journey not a destination. We ought to always be striving to beat our own personal best. We are not in a competition with other souls for God’s approval. We are wonderfully individually made. We screw up and He lets us know about it. We apologize. He loves us for repenting. This is the sum of the prodigal son parable. 

 

The tell for me is this: does He chastise you when you misbehave? Why would He if you do not belong to Him? He chastises His own. He doesn’t have to chastise those who wouldn’t recognize it as being correction anyway. Those generally shake their fists at God when things go wrong. The hitch-hikers never understand the “whom he loveth he chasteneth” part because they feel they have nothing to be chastised for but then, of course, they are blind. They say the elephant is an umbrella-like thing they can hide under. 

 

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth

[Charles Miles]

I was reading a Tozer article over the weekend and there was a statement that jumped out at me.  "You will accept Jesus as Lord now, or stand before Him as Judge later".  Oh how true and maybe overlooked by many.  The subtle warning placed in the gospel is not preached much at all these days, but the warning is still there as it has always been.  There is a choice to be made and we have to make it.  Not making a choice is actually making a choice.  Without Christ as our advocate in heaven, we have no right standing to even approach God, and therefore no defense from judgement that none will be able to say is unjust.  I am sure all of us here feel the same way....I love my lawyer and defense councel who stands at the right hand of God to speak for me.

 

In Christ,

 

Charlie

[chipped china]

Yes I agree with both of you. It's a delicate balance between knowing the loving nature of God and not taking advantage of His goodness. We must always approach Him with awe and reverence desiring to let Him be glorified through us, continually acknowledge our sins and shortcomings, then we can live in His favor. Personally, my life has been so much easier since I gave it all to Him. I don't have to live with the consequences or His disciple when I live more rightly.
I had a bad dream the other night. I can't remember much but I was doing some kind of sin and I was extremely distressed over it. When I woke up I said.. oh thank God it was only a dream and immediately felt relief.

[Speilb]

Great comments and discussion.  I recon our altercalls have something to do with the problem.  We invite people to come and recieve from the alter when the alter's first function is to burn stuff up.  We say "come and recieve Jesus" but we don't tell them what they need to put on the alter to be burned up.  Rarely do we give altercalls that sound like Jesus'.  Jesus didn't advertise the ease of it to people like we do today.  If he gave such a thing as we could call an "alter call" they involved phrases like "deny yourself", "pick up your cross", "loose your life", and the huge life altering command of "follow me".   Nowdays we say "come and recieve", "believe in the historical reality of Jesus and you will be saved" (this is opposed to the true meaning of "believe"), or we say in many ways "keep your sin, keep your life, but gain Jesus in addition".  I believe that Christian leaders are very much to blame for the state of things today.  The great preachers of old made the casual too uncomfortable and they either fled or followed Jesus.  This in-turn led to purity in the church, which led to a more clear witness in the community, and much Glory being brought to God. 

[Charles Miles]

You are so right about how much freedome truely trusting God can give. We were discussing Abraham`s trip up Mt Moriah with Issac yesterday and the discussion seemed to be about whether Abraham believed God was going to raise Issac from the dead or if God would even allow the knife to kill the boy, but I think there is more to it than that. Having two sons who are about the age Issac was(33-37 years), I can assure everyone that I would have great, great diffculty sacrificing either of them....no matter what the protocol. I think that Abraham trusted God so much by that time that he didn`t even question. He figured that God had promised a great nation would arise from Issac and he knew God always kept His word. I would guess that Abraham proceeded with the task because he KNEW God always kept h\His word and whatever happened on that mountain was a problem for God to solve, not Abraham. He knew God would keep His word and always had, trusting God to do what He said He would do, even if it involved the sacrificial death of Issac,....now, that is TOTAL trust in a living God in whom you have a very close relationship. Now, do I want that in my life? Not the possible sacrifice of my children, but a relationship with the Father that is so close that His word is in my ear constantly and I know His voice as well as I know my own? Yes, oh a thousand times yes! I`m not there yet and maybe a long way from there. How do I get there? The same way Abraham got there, by prayer, worship, walking with the Lord daily, and working on trusting Him every day.

I pray for that daily and ask all of you to pray that for me. I pray it for anyone here who wants that kind of relationship with the Father. We all need that relationship and most of us know it, but there are some who don`t know it is needed. I pray for them to recognise that imperative need.

Praise God because He is who He is,

Charlie

[Meema]

Great discussion! I agree whole-heartedly that the call to Jesus nowadays is more about soothing the believer than gathering the believer to Him on His terms.

 

I get way more from the old teachings than the new, humanistic, limp modern teachings.

 

Found this:

 

God... Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of His own purpose and grace. (2 Timothy 1:9 ESV)

 

The Lord Jesus did not come in just as a rescuer of man and of man’s lot. We should almost be led to believe by certain emphases that redemption is the greatest thing in the universe, and that all God’s interest is in redemption, and that we should be occupied solely with redemption. Redemption is a great thing. We can never, never exaggerate, and I doubt whether we shall ever know what a great thing redemption is; and yet, great as redemption is in its scope, in its depth, in its cost, redemption is only incidental to the eternal purpose.

 

Christ came into time to rescue His own inheritance. In that, of course, man is rescued, but it is something very much bigger than that. It relates to the Son primarily, and until the Lord’s people get the right attitude, the right point of view, that is, that all things in God’s full and final concern are centered in God’s Son, they have not come into line with all God’s resource. While the direction is toward ourselves – redemption, sanctification, glorification, and so on – or toward anything less than the Son Himself, we have not got God’s dynamic for accomplishing His work, and therefore it becomes necessary, as the sufficient, the adequate basis of the Holy Spirit’s operation, that there should be a revelation of Jesus Christ in the heart, for it is in relation to Him and what God has purposed concerning Him that all the energies of God are released and made active.

 

T. Austin-Sparks

[DonnaA]

This topic on casual Christian kind of ties in with what I've been experiencing lately with my niece regarding her relationship with her fiance and his belief that he is a psychic medium ... to those of us who know the Lord and are walking in a right relationship with HIM they are clearly unequally yoked ... there is no foundation for reincarnation in the scriptures ... yet they think the two can go together ... and sadly that is what many of our generation/times think, that there can be fellowship with light/darkness ... the following is what she said to me after reading some passages that I recommended ... as you can see, they are clearly misled in their thinking ... I'm praying about what else to say, and thankful that she is open to hearing what I have to say about all of this.

 

Interesting...since reading the scripture you recommended and talking more with him (he is really pondering all of this too) I realize that his belief in reincarnation is from past lives. He doesn't believe he will incarnate again. I asked him how he felt about salvation and he agrees that reincarnation changes the way we view the cross. I think he has such a connection to his past life readings and the Cayce teachings. His experiences are based on the scientific research, I believe. Spiritually, he cannot let go of Christianity and believes both Cayce and Christianity can coexist. There is such a fine line between all of this information.

 

Please keep them in your prayers!

 

I don't want to hi-jack this thread on the topic of reincarnation/psychic mediums ... so if you have something to add about that it probably would be best to go to the thread I started in the soap box section.

[Meema]

I apologize but I have no idea where the soap box section is so I post this here. 

 

I see a distinct correlation between the topic of ‘Casual Christian” and the topic of Christians adapting to and embracing non-Christian beliefs with duality. The great lie that satan pushes is that there are many ways to God. Those who want to keep one foot in Christianity and the other foot in the concept of humans as eternal beings even without the critical commitment to Christ are the perfect example of “casual” Christians who are dabbling. Not fully satisfied with the simplicity of the Gospel, they need something else too. 

 

The Great Deceiver is a master of manipulation and he knows our weaknesses and taps in directly to where we are most vulnerable. And he is able to adjust the lie to fit the need. If you like the idea that Jesus died for your sins but you also really want to be unable to die, be godlike and the captain of your own destiny, how easy to tweak the idea so that you can have it all. You can be saved by grace and return over and over again for more chances to “get it right”. Karma.  Unfortunately, this makes you wide open and vulnerable to the implantation of false memories.

 

This is the question I ask and can never get a satisfactory answer to: if one is naturally eternal and gets to return to play it again, how many of those times must one repent to be saved? Does one get a few passes, say, two out of ten, to skip the ‘come to Jesus‘ step? The common response is that you keep coming back until you get it right and then the last time is the time you have to commit to Jesus. Really? 

 

And then I ask, explain the fate of the evil servant whose end is weeping and gnashing of teeth in Matthew 24:45. Does this mean that when the Lord comes, those who are experiencing one of their lives that isn’t the last one, the good one where one finally ‘get’s it”, will that mean damnation for that soul, because, you know, bad luck and all being in the wrong life?  Or does God, in His infinite grace, have it orchestrated for all souls who are intended to be saved will just happen to be on their last ‘good’ one when He comes? 

 

Wait! So we are eternal beings on a quest to our own perfection and Jesus waits until we are all perfected to finally come again? What? 

      

The lie is old and has many versions to suit any era and circumstance. The Jews were always falling into the trap of amalgamating with the pagan beliefs and customs even when God said, “Don’t!”  He knew what would happen. Acquiescing always results in the dark side pulling down rather than the light pulling up. The only reason to mingle with the dark is to evangelize and the only way to stay clean is to be fully armored up and constantly on guard for the sweet siren calls that entice us to follow another, better Jesus. Choose your own path, you’re good. After all, you are eternal. <----said in a beautiful silky voice.

 

So, in effect, a Casual Christian is one who declares to be basically in charge of his/her salvation and the cross is just a footnote in the ongoing story of “I”. This skirts close to the concept of Universal Reconciliation which effectively eliminates the reason for the cross altogether.

 

(Hebrews 9:27) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

(2 Corinthians 6:15) And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what portion hath a believer with an unbeliever?

 

Here’s my prayer: Lord, Jesus, open their eyes. 

 

For Him,

Meema

[Charles Miles]

Meema,

  Please allow me to ask a question here.  I consider myself an expert on the casual christian, because I was one for so long and it took a serious meeting with the Father to jolt me out of a sleep, or at least an attitude of "I`m no worse than the next fellow" type attitude.  It is my conviction that humans ARE eternal beings and were always supposed to be such.  The day of our birth we are looking into eternity and what we have is a choice of where to spend it.  I get the impression that some people do not think the track upon which we travel is indeed eternity but I certainly do not see any thing that tells me we are not eternal.  Certainly our bodies as we know them are not, but the soul and spirit are created to be eternal and will continue to live in one of two places.  God loves us so much He will allow us to choose where we wish to spend that eternity, and even though I think the choice is very obvious, satan slips into lives with a subtle lie here and there to father confusion about who we are and who God is.....and especially what a relationship with the Father is all about.

 

Now the question...Does anyone think we are bound for eternity?  Are we not eternal?  Simply stated, we can choose eternal life or eternal death, but we must make one choice or the other.  We will spend eternity with that choice.

 

A question asked in love,

 

Charlie

[Meema]

Charles,

A wonderful question!

 

The short answer lays hidden in the different definitions of ‘eternal’ as is always the case when one word can be used many ways. Humanists and New Agers view eternal as the act of morphing but never dying and that is the good feel part of the BIG LIE because it never fully identifies what living wrongly means even as it claims there is no consequence for living wrongly, just opportunity to keep working at it, in the quest for a final perfection (again vaguely deemed ‘goodness’ and ‘love’ ) achieved by gaining knowledge from experience rather than a single event of propitiation for sin. But that pretty much leaves out Christ’s part as the propitiator.  

 

Scripture, on the other hand, reveals God’s perspective on eternal life and death. One of many:

 

(John 5:24) “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

 

So, yes, we are eternal beings destined for eternal life or death. Satan says, “you shall not surely die...”. God’s Word says, 

 

(2 Thessalonians 1:7) and to you that are afflicted rest with us, at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with the angels of his power in flaming fire,  (8) rendering vengeance to them that know not God, and to them that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus:  (9) who shall suffer punishment, [even] eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might.

 

Which leads to the next question: What is  ‘death’? Is it the absence of life or is it life appointed to eternal torment?

 

A response given in love,

Meema

[Charles Miles]

Meema,

  I love discussing things "of the Lord" with those who truely love Him.  We always learn and that always leads to more "reverential awe" of our Father.  I do think man is eternal, but not in the "new age" sense of thought. As I read Tozer, Kenyon, and other old saints who understood things se well and walked a close walk with the Lord, I do understand that "death" is simply a door through which we all will pass one day and the fear of it is due to the mystery, the uncertanty of some, and the fact that some people assume it is the end, but the Bible tells us that it is not the end of anything but this earthly life.  We will spend eternity somewhere!  As I understand this  situation(and I`m getting pretty deep for an old doctor way out in the country), there is a first death and then there could be a second death...which none would desire.  The physical death of the body is the first death?  And a second death would be separation from God? The first one we all will taste, but the second one is to be avoided, and can be with a loving relationship with the Father producing salvation from Him. 

 

I present this thought for discussion among those who are comfortable discussing it and mainly as a way for me to better understand what I just wrote.  I THINK I understand this concept, but I would dearly appreciate input from some of my brothers and sisters here.  I am certainly not afraid of death of my body...that will happen and things change to a glorified state.  Paul writes about the first and second death and I consider the second one not to be anything we want to deal with at all, so we repent, confess, and trust God to do what He says He will do. Safe in His hands, the second death is not for His children.

 

Praise God becuse He is who He is,

 

Charlie