11 replies to this topic

[Candice]

I have had so many "God-thoughts" yesterday and, especially today. I've been reading posts here for the past hour or so, even from back in September when Kevin posted on Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Some continuous ponderings, not really questions or firm holdings to doctrine go through my mind. One is that the debate goes on over the "second blessing" which to me, is simply the filling of the Holy Spirit, being anointed or blessed for special ministry, i.e. missionary evangelism, etc. Of course, much was put forth by Kevin on his reading in Acts which was a great continuous posting of the Book and thoughts shared

The Holy Spirit Before the Foundations of the Earth

The Holy Spirit as part of the Trinity, has always been present. I remember asking a pastor how amazing it was that God caused this: "But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him." 1 Sam. 16:14 The discussion ensued and the pastor commented that there was no Holy Spirit back then!! I recalled, but kept it to myself, that the Holy Spirit was there as the earth was formed and described as "moving upon the waters" in Gen. 1:2. "Oh my gosh" is all I can say to that ridiculous response.

The Holy Spirit Then

 

So, with respect to the disciples receiving the Holy Spirit at advent, my question would be that I assume then that Jesus was the only person alive at the time Who had the Holy Spirit. For, then, even John the Baptist never had the Holy Spirit.  Before Christ's resurrection, the Spirit could depart from a soul, i.e. David prayed "do not take your Holy Spirit from me" after his great sin that we all know too well.  Don't want to keep on David with a grudge for that since he's forgiven!

OK, then, if we are sealed with the Spirit until the day of redemption, and if God's Holy Spirit was not yet given, John the Baptist was not sealed. We are sealed. If a disciple would have died before receiving the Spirit, then he would go to Sheol?

If we are sealed with the Spirit, then that is our guarantee of eternal life. This is received as a gift when we believe and receive as Jesus stated, "And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel." Mark 1:15. Thus, for those who believe, "Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts." 2 Cor. 10:22 If we are sealed at that point, then what is the second blessing worth except for earthly ministry?

 

the Holy Spirit in the Future - Eternity

 

I know I could include more verses, but I want to keep this as simple as possible.  For the Holy Spirit is always present. What about the future - the 1000 year reign (I know some don't believe in this, but its unimportant and not a main point here) and eternity.  Rev. 22:17 only remarks at the end of days, as the last reference to the Spirit of God, "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely  .How is the Holy Spirit dispensed then?  It is not clear to me.  The Spirit cannot obviously just cease.  I understand that this is not a simple matter of three persons becoming two.  This is eternal.
 
I believe less and less in this second blessing as having anything at all to do with salvation. This cannot be  It is clear that this is for ministry anointing.

I am no theologian.  As far as I'm concerned, these are mostly men with head knowledge.  I seek more than that.  I seek confirmation of being sealed with God's Spirit til the day of redemption.  The verse for me, as far as evidence of Christ in me (the [only] Hope of Glory)(besides the fruit of the Spirit), is, "...that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."  1 Tim. 2:2-4

 

Finally, for the Spirit as far as eternity, this is why what only matters is what has eternal value....the rest is gonna burn.

Hope that I am clear here in my wondering.  Any ideas? 
 
Love,
Candice

[Ginger]

automatic though. Triune God is One and the fullness of the Godhead was and is in Christ. When we are saved to the uttermost by Christ's saving us and he did not leave us as orphans how can we ponder or imagine doctrines.... Don't mean to be crude but once a dear lady told me that I had to know the difference between doctrine, dogma, and dog manure.  So please forgive me for being unlearned and posting automatic thoughts to something that is serious to you.  I am acknowledging that you have a lot that you think on and that you are precious and that God will resolve all the things that us creatures can't come to understand or explain.... "In the twinkling of an eye"..... I reckon we don't get a part of God but all of HIM and it is all beyond our comprehending fully until He reveals it totally and completely.  God bless you with all the knowledge you need and that He wants you to impart for His glory and purposes.  Sorry about my automatic posting.... hope God is working in me in this and it's not just me spouting off.... Love and prayers, Ginger

 

PS Been told that I think too much. I can give meself a headache over thinking on the devil being loosed for a short time after the 1000 years.... since I'm not so keen on some things and very ignorant or can get into opinionizing I've asked the Lord to put me where He wants me and do just as it suits and pleases Him after saying that since He was coming on a big white horse that may mean some folk may be tending to horses.... if so... I'd rather tend to horses since I've been a simi-hermitess for so long.  So I ponder on some things that could be considered heavenly minded.... between now and when Jesus returns or when I die I just hope to be seeing Him face to face and wonder about the folks he spent time with the 33 years He was on the earth... and then how the folks grew in Him and all the things that pop into me head... methinks you and I think on a lot of Scripture and wonder and have some Wonderment moments full of awe.  I sort of ponder on all that can be shaken will be 'shook' and what remains can't be shook... will it be seen or unseen?  Just waiting and hoping to be found in Him.... will read your post again coz I'm bound to have not understood all that you were sharing....

 

Wondering about: A New Jerusalem.... A new heaven and a new earth.... reckon I need to think on this day a bit and give thanks. 

 

Thank you Candice for generating thoughts of being a Citizen of a different kingdom.... too many words.... too many words.... I be still.

Edited by Ginger, 22 February 2014 - 07:50 PM.

[Candice]

Ginger, I think, I think I'm done thinking.  It's done thought out and I'm tired of thinking about it. Trust is the key.  Thank you for your directness.

 

[Ginger]

Candice, thank you for posting and too many words are my too many words. You did a good thinking it out!!! Reckon I had some things come to mind that have nothing to do with folks here... reckon we both be tired and have thought things out .... neat how things come to bear fruit and rest... Appreciate you

[chipped china]

Love your post Ginger, and Candice when you've got a question it's always a BIG one!!!
 
What I'm about to write is only my beliefs, I'm not trying to persuade anyone, it's just what I think so far in what God has shown me. I've got a long ways to go and all of us should search the scriptures daily to see if these things be so. I think we are all unique and God calls us to him at different ages and in ways that we respond. For me I had to be disciplined for many years until I finally let go of what was standing in the way of a true relationship with Christ. I was saved 30 years ago but I wasn't sanctified truly. I stayed a baby for a long time. And I also think that terminology can be confusing. Sanctification vs second blessing. I don't really know what the second blessing is but from the Holy Spirit and teachers I have read and related to: Sanctification is when you understand and put to use the knowledge that Jesus lives in us and will work through us if we just get out of the way. It's a dividing away of our soul needs, food, shelter, health, human love etc. It's a definite "knowing" what it feels like to be loved by God and have Him do things through us that we know were not our old nature but Gods. That's all the second blessing is to me.. some people get it at conversion and others don't get it for years. The Baptist church I went to called it backsliding when you lost your desire to grow. I personally don't see it that way. I think when you really "get" Him you don't back slide because He is the center of your everything. That's just personally how I feel and doesn't make me correct. If in the future I back slide I'll let you know and we can start another discussion.
 
The Holy Spirit then:
 
I probably shouldn't even reply to this because I'm not expert, ha. I was taught the Holy Spirit would fill some people off and on in the old testament, it was their faith that saved them. Instead of the Holy Spirit they had miracles and prophets to help them believe. Even Jesus wasn't filled until He was baptized and the Spirit came upon Him like a dove. I always thought Jesus is God and man so He knew things because He was fully God then. I think your pastor meant the Holy Spirit didn't come into all believers during the old testament.
From my understanding of scriptures when Christ died He took all the saints that were waiting in Paradise (Sheol/Hades) with Him to Heaven. There are two sides to Hades, the believers and unbelievers. In between the two sides is a great gulf fixed. Luke 16:26 When Jesus was resurrected the believers were moved to another location. Paradise is above instead of below. 2 Cor. 12: 2-4. Today when a believer dies He is immediately in the presence of the Lord. When an unbeliever dies they go to the torment side of Sheol/Hades where they stay until the last judgment, the Great White Throne of judgment. Rev. 20: 13-15
Now to get back to your question about the second blessing/sanctification. Yes, I believe the purpose of it is to make us new creatures so the love of God flows in  and out of us to perform His work. I don't know, perhaps some people call it the second blessing because believing gives us eternal life but you don't always see the fruit and that's what they mean. And Candice, I believe you have the second blessing/sanctification but don't recognize the terminology, that's all. I see the fire, passion and workings of Christ in you. I keep it simple. Justification is accepting Christ and eternal salvation. Sanctification/second blessing is producing fruit because Christ works through us, death to self... at least to some degree.
 
As for your last question the Holy Spirit in eternity. He is eternal and has all the attributes of the Father and Jesus so He willstill BE. Personally, I think he'll be helping believers and the Jewish people who make it through the tribulation live in the millennium. Here's what I believe:

http://www.compellin...millennium.html

Once again, these are my beliefs and I'm not trying to persuade anyone. The most important thing about end times is to be ready.

[Candice]

Betsy,
thank you for your post. I can easily agree with all of the above. Not sure doctrinally about certain things like two sides of Hades doesn't matter to me because it will be what it will be since the Lord knows. More later.

[Candice]

:)Here's something that really came to me since I'm seeking God for His leading me where He wants in bible study. I have been not wanting to complete this particular Beth Moore study, and have to admit that I'm only really reading through it and answering minimally. I guess I've become burned out after many, many of Beth's studies.

But...here goes.

As a response to the second blessing or sanctification, "we are filled with the Spirit as we yield to His lordship [or course]. Although the Spirit of the Lord is always in us, He floods only the parts of our lives where He is in authority. Freedom flows where the Spirit of the Lord floods." So, we can be in bondage in one area of our lives, but not others. For instance, I may not be addicted to alcohol any longer, but may still have control issues that I will not release control to God, say my son's life. That's a biggie.

Hence, "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom". 2 Cor. 3:17 So, the freedom of Christ is receiving Him as Savior and allowing Him to be in control. The freedom never leaves the bounds of His Spirit. Therefore, liberation (or sanctification/second blessing, call it what you like), expressed as a reality only in the places of our lives where the free Spirit of God is released.

Of course, this seems like semantics, basics, but if it is only head knowledge, it counts for little. Freedom and lordship are inseparable partners in the believer's life. When we read that freedom can be found anywhere the Spirit of the Lord is, we can take it literally.

However, Lordship salvation (to me) as I've seen it in others is often a harsh taskmaster. I know a lady who is always talking about this, yet she is very unloving and not compassionate, critical and kind of nasty. So, yes, she has her ducks in order so-to-speak, but.....

The absolute authority of the Spirit is only able to be so if we believe correctly to begin with...hence another post by Onlyloveremains, "Do you truly believe?", comes into my vision. For all the lordship cannot produce sanctification without the right beliefs to begin with. So many miss this. It is really using the word of God in its entirety. Without the grace, the lordship is only legalism (IMHO).
 

[chipped china]

I'm still learning of this stuff myself and like I said it's my beliefs everyone else needs to decide for themselves. Things like end time scenarios are a blessing because they keep us seeking the mystery of God, and the whole counsel of God. For many years I neglected the old testament and the human race's heritage. I'm so blessed that the Lord has opened my heart to try and understand the whole.

[Charles Miles]

Morning Ladies! What a great day it is here in the deep South and the discussion of Holy Spirit as our day starts is so good. As I read all your posts here an let them soak into my heart, I just learn more about His work in all of us every day. Some learn quickly and seem to incorporate His indwelling presence into daily life, and I do envy those souls. I guess I am a "work in progress" and maybe always will be, but I praise God for being just that. Here`s what I mean....I often have a "quick response" when someone threatens or attempts to "bulldose" me with life`s challenges, and often my response is not as it should be. I know no one here has that problem, right? I pray for the day, I earnrstly pray for the day that the quick response that sometimes "pops out" is ALWAYS a reflection of my Jesus. I think the "thing" that jumps out of our mouth as aresponse to being wronged seems to reflect what is in our heart, and what sometimes jumps out of me as a "knee jerk" answer is NOT Jesus! Later, yes, I can calmly come back to the person and appologise for my sharp comment, but I live for the day that even my "knee jerk response" is Jesus. How long O Lord, how long will this bad stuff hang around in my heart? Just when I think I have had all that removed, it jumps up and out again! The Lord has been so good to me and he loves me so much....I always feel ashamed to find some of the stuff in me that is definitely not of the Lord.

Praise God for who He is,

Charlie

[Kenny]

The Holy Spirit as part of the Trinity, has always been present. I remember asking a pastor how amazing it was that God caused this: "But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him." 1 Sam. 16:14 The discussion ensued and the pastor commented that there was no Holy Spirit back then!! I recalled, but kept it to myself, that the Holy Spirit was there as the earth was formed and described as "moving upon the waters" in Gen. 1:2. "Oh my gosh" is all I can say to that ridiculous response.

 

 

And God said, Let us make man in our image - Gen 1:26

 

I always considered the "us" in the above verse to be referring to the Trinity

 

and if I'm not mistaken, is the following text referring to Jesus?

 

 is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; ^1:16for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; ^1:17and he is before all things, and in him all things consist.  Col 1:15-17

[Candice]

Morning Ladies! What a great day it is here in the deep South and the discussion of Holy Spirit as our day starts is so good. As I read all your posts here an let them soak into my heart, I just learn more about His work in all of us every day. Some learn quickly and seem to incorporate His indwelling presence into daily life, and I do envy those souls. I guess I am a "work in progress" and maybe always will be, but I praise God for being just that. Here`s what I mean....I often have a "quick response" when someone threatens or attempts to "bulldose" me with life`s challenges, and often my response is not as it should be. I know no one here has that problem, right? I pray for the day, I earnrstly pray for the day that the quick response that sometimes "pops out" is ALWAYS a reflection of my Jesus. I think the "thing" that jumps out of our mouth as aresponse to being wronged seems to reflect what is in our heart, and what sometimes jumps out of me as a "knee jerk" answer is NOT Jesus! Later, yes, I can calmly come back to the person and appologise for my sharp comment, but I live for the day that even my "knee jerk response" is Jesus. How long O Lord, how long will this bad stuff hang around in my heart? Just when I think I have had all that removed, it jumps up and out again! The Lord has been so good to me and he loves me so much....I always feel ashamed to find some of the stuff in me that is definitely not of the Lord.

Praise God for who He is,

Charlie

I am in perfect agreement with you and this is so convicting. Thanks!!

[Candice]

And God said, Let us make man in our image - Gen 1:26[/size]
 
I always considered the "us" in the above verse to be referring to the Trinity[/size]
 
and if I'm not mistaken, is the following text referring to Jesus?[/size]
 
 is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; [/size]^1:16for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; [/size]^1:17and he is before all things, and in him all things consist.  Col 1:15-17[/size]

Hi Kenny,
I could not "like" this as there was an error message - something about my "reputation"!!! It only happened on your post. But, I "like" it anyway. The "Us" is perfectly plain and it is odd that, no matter how many times I read a passage, I miss something and later find it as a treasure.
Thank you for sharing!
Blessings,
Candice