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Have I fallen?


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#1 CHRISTOPHER310

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 08:08 AM

I have not been able to attend church in almost a month now. Not my regular church nor a newer church I am interested in attending. Not able meaning I just don’t have the ambition anymore to go to church. Any church. I know some will say this is a bad thing and reflects how little or weak I am as a Christian. I have already heard these remarks and judgments slammed upon me. It doesn’t not ring true with me or help me understand anything. If anything, it just makes me more hurt, angry, and feeling like people are ignorant and hypocritical.

I had been attending the same church for a little more than 3 years before I felt hurt and angry over some issues I notice going on with them. My last church attendance was 1/26/14. This church, my regular church, was the very first place I ever felt at home with. A safe, caring, wanted home and family. Something I never had before until I started to attend it years backs. I think the issues I have with this church now is that there is a change of guard, a shifting in pastoral staff that has adjusted the churches personality in a direction I feel is more hypocritical than truthful by it’s own promoting message. I don’t want the most important thing in my life, my faith, to be involved in a promoting lie. That plus, I honestly don’t feel people at my regular church truly cares about each other beyond church property lines. If you aren't there, they forget about you and make no efforts to have anything to do with you. A conditional faith and love kind of concept. I am not okay with that either.

The other church I am interested in. But can’t seem to find the ambition to attend is similar to my regular church, but seems to have a lot more to offer it’s members and the community. This I was very much drawn to and like. But, I am hesitate alot to even go to that church. I am not sure why.

I believe that I am still a very much true Christian and believer in who I am. My faith has not fallen or is so weak ( immature ) that it has brought me to this point of not attending church. I know I have huge issues with feeling safe and comfortable around people. Trusting people, especially those I get close to. And issues with being hurt anymore by others. I have had a life time with being hurt and having my trust broken. So I do have these issues, but I am not sure if they are connected to anything with church or a motivating factor to why I have lost my ambition to attend church anymore. I also know that I feel more angry at the world in general now than ever before. Like I can’t stomach alot about people and the world itself and it shows in my personality more and more. No clue to why on that either.

What happened? What is going on? Why am I at this point in my life and what, if anything, will help me move on from here to a better place I once was at? There are days I look upon myself in a self reflection kind of way and so hate myself. With a passion some days I can’t stomach who I am and don’t know what to do about it. I must have done something wrong from going to where I was ( attending church and volunteering ) to where I am at now, a lost of ambition to attend any church or be associated with any church.



#2 Julie Daube

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 09:15 AM

Christopher, I wish I could reply in depth to your questions and this post, but time constrains me. So please know that I am praying for you. Remember that there is NO CONDEMNATION for those who are in Christ Jesus - your righteousness in Christ has nothing to do with whether you go to church but is based on His shed blood and your trust in His finished work on the cross. I do pray that God will give you the motivation and desire to attend the other church you feel drawn to, because we all need the body of Christ to grow in our Christian walk. But in the meantime, try to remember that your salvation and righteousness is not based on church attendance but on your relationship with Christ.     


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#3 Big John

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 10:18 AM

I have restrained myself from responding to these many posts because I know I will probably come across as harsh.  But I do not mean to be cruel or whatever.  So here goes.

 

To answer your first question.  No.  People do not care about you.  There are some christians who may but they are few and far between.  And when trying to find a church body with that overarching love and concern for its many members, it is even fewer.  Remember, most christians are Americans first.  That means we are independant and mostly very selfish.  Oh yeah, and that also means we are human, which is even worse.  Most churches in modern America have little in common with the idea that God ever had for this "institution".  Could say, oh so much more, but hopefully you get what I am trying to say.

 

All of that said, you truly can only find whatever it is you feel you need from God.  These circumstances that you have and are experiencing have one purpose.  And that is to cause your heart to cry out to God.  To cause your knees to buckle and fill your heart with that burning need for Gods overwhelming compassion and love.  He is there for us when we have no answers.  But it is in that secret place of repentence and brokeness that, we usually, will find Him.  I know for myself, that I usually have had to get the props kicked out from under me, before I ever even start to get the message.

 

Another personal observation.  And I know a lot of people will disagree but God is way more interested in helping you than He is interested in you helping anyone else.  Only people who have been helped can help.  Everyone thinks that the mission of christians and the church is to "save the lost".  That is true but it is supposed to happen naturally out of the wellsprings that flow up and out of the life that God has poured into us.  If you are a mess, then, be a mess and let God work on you.  After a while He may promote you and you can get to work helping without being a bigger hindrance than a helper.  The primary mission of christians is to get to know Jesus Christ.  Everything else will just follow.  Effort goes into getting to know God.  Getting saved just opens the door.  There are infinite miles to do and see and learn in the kingdom of God.  Ok.  Enough of all that.

 

Now, lastly, church is extremely important.  That being said, it is also really hard to find a really good church.  So what does one do?  You turn the problem over to God!  He will find you someplace that will teach you something about Him, IFFFF that is your purpose!  If you need to be a helper than go to whatever church you want and help!  But if you want to find God in a real and meaningful way then talk to God about it, go where He leads and submit yourself to the leadership until He leads you elsewhere.

 

Thats all I'm gonna say.  I'm not trying to be a jerk.  And not trying to patronize either.

 

Big John  


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#4 Meema

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 11:06 AM

Fallen? Absolutely not!

 

Without explaining why, I think you are being called to something. Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is able to move you outside of the church building? And if not, why not?

 

This morning I received a subscription email from Chip Brogden. I’m going to copy paste it at the end of this post and there is a link to his site at the bottom. I highly recommend that you poke around in his site and read his profound teachings. He is a modern Tozer. 

 

Now here is where this all gets interesting. When a similar message converges on me from multiple places and it echoes what I was working on, I recognize it as the Holy Spirit’s nudging. Yesterday I was working on a new blog post and I finished it this morning after receiving the email from Brogden. Then a hour later my daughter sent me this:

 

Bedside Blessings - Charles Swindoll

 

February 16

 

I have discovered that a joyful countenance has nothing to do with one’s age or one’s occupation (or lack of it) or one’s geography or education or marital status or good looks or circumstances. Joy is a choice. It is a matter of attitude that stems from one’s confidence in God–that He is at work, that He is in full control, that He is in the midst of whatever has happened, is happening, and will happen.

 

You will make me to know the path of life; in Your presence is fullness of joy. - Psalm 16:11

 

---------------------

 

I think this message is for you. Now, I’ve received messages for my niece when her hearing and sight was fogged up with uncertainty. I have explained to her, as I do to you, that when God is calling, you have to take that to mean HE WANTS YOU! There is no self-confidence or trust issues that can possibly be more important than God calling. 

 

Right?

 

-----------------from Chip Brogden----------------

 

 

I formulated a quote many years ago based upon a truth I had come

to learn:

 

"The purpose of revelation is not to *substantiate* your

illusions, but to *eliminate* them."

 

When so many things are bandied about today as

"revelation" it is important to note what effect the

revelation, word, dream, or vision has upon the recipient.  If it

reinforces and substantiate their illusions, makes them more

comfortable in their own world, and generally lets them think that

they were "right all along" then I would typically

question the source of that revelation.

 

But if the revelation causes an awakening, a change of heart, an

elimination of what was previously held in error, an illumination

of what was previously seen dimly - one of those "My Lord and

My God!" moments - then you can generally trust that the

revelation is genuine.

 

True revelation eliminates illusions.

 

Another of my sayings is...

 

"Blessed are the disillusioned."

 

Religious folk in particular have some very strange ideas,

opinions, and illusions about God, Jesus, the Bible, and what it

means to be filled, taught, and led by the Holy Spirit.

 

But the purpose of God-given, Spirit-inspired revelation is not to

substantiate all your silly notions about spiritual things, but to

eliminate them - to DIS-ILLUSION you so that you see things as they

really are.

 

Blessed are the disillusioned, for they will see God as He really

is.

 

A man in one of our workshops experienced this.  After listening to

what was shared he shook his head and exclaimed, "Jesus is not

Who I thought He was - He IS Who He IS!"

 

Peter, James and John experienced this in Matthew 17, when Jesus

"was transfigured before them."

 

Jesus did not suddenly become the Son of God; He was the Son of God

all along.

 

But they suddenly saw Him differently.

 

And this seeing definitely dis-illusioned them.

 

It eliminated all their preconceived ideas and notions about Who He

really was and is.

 

This revelation did not substantiate their illusions or encourage

their misconceptions; it challenged them, put them on their face in

fear, and forever changed the direction of their lives.

 

THAT is the kind of revelation of Christ that is missing from many

who claim Him as Savior.

 

They are trying to follow (and desperately trying to persuade

others to follow) a God that they really don't know apart from

what Religion has taught them.

 

It MUST not be so with you and me.

 

We MUST see Him and we MUST proclaim Him, not as we wish Him to be,

not as we expect Him to be, not as we think He should be - but AS

HE IS.

 

I am your brother,

 

Chip Brogden

http://TheSchoolOfChrist.Org


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#5 radar

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 01:35 PM

Hi Christopher!

 

I have been where you are now, and understand the fiery trail your going thru. I have read thru your recent threads. The question is, When you prayed to God about what to do, stay or move on (Phil 4:6), and prayed for the people who have despitefully used you (Mat 5:44), and have asked for God's wisdom in this matter (Jas 1:5), what was His answer for you?

 

How long have you been walking with the Lord?

 

I want to help, but I need your help to do so. I need more information to pray with. What I have for you so far is what I have prayed, asking for wisdom on how to best help you bear this burden. I care about you!

 

That is exactly why you are here on this forum. God promised He would not leave us orphans (John 14:18), even though your fellowship has done so by what you have revealed so far. I have found many friends here who are loving, caring, and most of all, safe! We are the Body of Christ, and when one hurts, we all do (1Cor 12:26).

 

To my beloved brothers and sisters here, please forgive my long absence from this forum. I trust that God has kept you and blessed you all while I was away.

 

Shalom,

radar


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"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven."


#6 radar

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 01:38 PM

BTW Christopher, I forgot to give you this link to an article that may help explain how to overcome the situation you are in.

 

http://www.gotquesti...-by-church.html

 

Shalom,

radar


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#7 Ginger

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 02:12 PM

:D Hi Radar,

Good to see your post.  You've come to mind several times and that generated some wondering about how you were doing and prayer for you.   it's so good to see a post when a person has not posted for a while ... glad you are posting and praying for Christopher and asking him some questions.  Us sisters are praying too and it's just sort of a special blessing for me to see you guys posting... Christopher has some brothers in Christ giving what is a bit different than us sisters give... Like Christopher posted about the women and the men separating for a while then coming back together for the rest of the time.  So thankful for Brothers and Sisters here on the forum...

 

Shalom


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#8 radar

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 08:57 PM

Hi Ginger!

Thanks for the prayers and the welcome! Missed you guys too. Didn't realize it has been since Dec 10 since I last posted. God reminded me today to come to the forum and I am glad I did. It may take me a while to read up on all the posts since I was last here. I see there are some new people here and some great posts, and look forward to wherever Jesus takes us from here!

 

Shalom,

radar


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#9 elizabethcog

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 04:21 AM

Maybe you are being refined in this time so you will shine as a light to others who are too being made new(all of us being works in progress) go to your church but keep your eyes on Jesus,the One doing the saving) and serve him in your words deeds and worship, and somehow He takes care of the other stuff as we step one baby step out in faith and place your trust in Him,the only one who will not leave or disappoint.(these truths I too learned in hard seasons friend)praying for you...


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Jesus and Jesus alone saves=D

#10 Ginger

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 02:23 PM

Such a good word for me to hear today,  Elizabeth you and your posts are very precious.  Thank you!  It seems the Lord is showing me how He is refining me by having taken some things I took for granted to be able to do so I will truly come to Him for Him alone.  Today is uniquely designed to perfect or mature me in some very simple and basic things where it seems like I've been such a failure when it comes to being and doing.  Your share was yet another 'confirmation' that Jesus speaks what I need to hear at just the right moment.  So thankful for the sweetness and the simplicity you share.  Thank you!!!
 
Adding on: Was just given to do a Scripture version compare for a few verses; and to 'relax' and to pray and to do what I can ...Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. (KJV)

Copied from The Message Version
Php 2:13 That energy is God's energy, an energy deep within you, God himself willing and working at what will give him the most pleasure.
Php 2:14 Do everything readily and cheerfully--no bickering, no second-guessing allowed!
Php 2:15 Go out into the world uncorrupted, a breath of fresh air in this squalid and polluted society. Provide people with a glimpse of good living and of the living God. Carry the light-giving Message into the night (MSG)

Rom 12:1 So here's what I want you to do, God helping you: Take your everyday, ordinary life--your sleeping, eating, going-to-work, and walking-around life--and place it before God as an offering. Embracing what God does for you is the best thing you can do for him.
Rom 12:2 Don't become so well-adjusted to your culture that you fit into it without even thinking. Instead, fix your attention on God. You'll be changed from the inside out. Readily recognize what he wants from you, and quickly respond to it. Unlike the culture around you, always dragging you down to its level of immaturity, God brings the best out of you, develops well-formed maturity in you.

Edited by Ginger, 17 February 2014 - 03:09 PM.

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#11 CHRISTOPHER310

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 09:20 PM

Thank you everyone so much for sharing your support and prayers. It really does help and come at a painful time in my life. I have pretty much no support in my life and a pending ex wife who hates me with an endless passion. So I so do value the time and heart given by everyone here. Many thanks.



#12 Charles Miles

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 07:59 AM

Christopher,

 

As I read the posts in this thread I see several people who do seem to  care about you and your relationship with the Lord.  All this stuff that has happened to you is a mess, and like some of the things that happened to me and others, I don`t even pretend to understand them.  This situation in your life can be used  for good or for bad, but the choice is , well, yours.  You are a mature christian man, so I will not give you any Bible verses to "support" what I am about to say....and as Big John said, sometimes what we need to hear is not what we want to hear....at the moment.  When I went through rough times I realized I needed to trust the Lord to do what he said he would do and be what he said he would be, because my most pressing problem was lack of trust.  Even though my life was falling down around me, the problem was TRUST.  Christians are not assured an easy road at all, in fact some of the roads are very, very difficult and MUST be walked in trust.  As far as being fallen goes, well, maybe a reading of Romans chapter 8 might be a bit of time well spent.  If chapter 8 seems to be a disconnect, then possibly go back and read chapters 1-7, then re-read chapter 8 very slowly, while substituting your name into the appropriate pronouns.  I try to read Romans 8 every week or so just to make sure it hasn`t been removed!  That one chapter gives me a most calming peace and assurance, even though I make mistakes every day both large and small.

 

Sounds as if you are having difficulties and I am praying for you because I really do care.  Satan does seem to attack us at times when we are most vulnerable, and then attack us agin before we even get up from the previous attack.  Think about how it will upset him when you trust the Lord about all this and just move on out as a righteous man in the Lord. 

 

May God bless you and extend his boundless grace to you as you work through this,

 

Charlie


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#13 Ginger

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:53 PM

Thank you Charlie!!! And, Thank you Big John! Seems I remember Big John saying something about us having to or needing to do our own homework. There comes a time to let a person have time with the LORD and just keep the person in prayer... Having grandsons that are over 21 give me 'opportunity presentations' too think on what Big John and Charlie say. They need to have a manly hand and word and a praying grandma who learns and then knows when to be still.... Have been reminded of another saying, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink." I seem like a old nag at times so going to go to the water of the Word and sip and enjoy Romans 8. Thank you Charlie and Julie for posting and sharing ...Romans 8...

Thank all of you. I need to rest and spend time alone with the LORD, be in His Word and Be Still... and then do some homemaking tasks that have been too long neglected...been spending too much time at the computer.... Please pray for me to be doing what is obeying the Lord regarding homemaking tasks. Won't be long till it will be time to mow the yard... looking forward to that and grateful that I can ....

So long for a while.

God bless each person all for His glory....

Edited by Ginger, 18 February 2014 - 01:38 PM.