6 replies to this topic

[Candice]

I didn't want to hijack Kevin's recent post on change (...can a person really change?) since I'm approaching this philosophically and as a believer. My experience is really explained here as well.

There are always two natures warring within us as Paul points out. The flesh is never cast out. Demons – yes. The flesh – no.

Someone said, “I’m surprised that some very trivial thing can produce such a violent internal response in me, like going through a checkout at the store and something happening….” Can you relate? When you get a glimpse of that nature inside of you, it is a reminder of that which the LORD has done for me. Small insults of each day become so gnarly. What a gross blasphemy of His gifts for us. It is forgiveness. Judicially, our sins are forgotten. When we confess our sins, we get restorative forgiveness. We know that even though we’re forgiven, that does not necessarily relieve you of the governmental aspect of that sin. For instance, look at how Jacob deceived his father Isaac. Then, that happened to Jacob years later. It’s called consequence. So, while we may change in many ways as a result of the Holy Spirit’s power over us. The consequences of sin still exist and can make it appear that we have not changed. Someone could say, “See they’re the same, look at all the chaos in their lives. If they were changed (or really intimating they’re “saved”), this would look differently”. This also points to the law for the change. Some people think that if things aren’t going well in life, that is an indication that there is active sin in the person’s life – hence, no change. Well, sorry. I do not believe on that at all.
There are divine rules of the universe that govern our former, current and sins to come. Judicially, they’re forgiven. So, that change is not often as visible as a more legalistic individual would like to see as their proof or evidence of salvation. Stick to change as being fruit of the Spirit…love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness and self-control. Stick to fruit inspection of teachers not change in our brothers and sisters, as this is the only obligation we truly have, except that we do go to our brother or sister if they sin. Just make sure you’ve changed first! What good thing should I do that I might have eternal life?

Thus,
Plan A for Change – keep the commandments perfectly. That would be change. This highlights the issue.
Plan B for Change – you are made righteous by Jesus Christ. His works are the basis of salvation. That’s real change. There’s a chance of change if we really see our righteousness in no condemnation.

What appears to be ripe fruit to one person would be green to another. Change of the external type is easy when we're under the law and have anything in us that thinks it will make us righteous. I've seen pastors raise their kids on behavioral conditioning. Is this real change if, internally, there's a sin nature that is warring but no faith and dependence, reliance on Jesus's work at the cross exclusively?

There’s only a chance of change if we are His disciples and there’s a cost of discipleship. Be simple, sell it all and go on a monastic journey. Does this really create change? Is this more conducive to spiritual growth? I think we’ve all thought about this from time to time. To me, this simple thing would mean change. But, would it be external only? Probably.

We're all sinners saved by grace. Period.

[Ginger]

Candice, I appreciate you and thank you too.  Plans for Change... well, any plan I've made for change has only been a failure in my view.  Hence all I know is that only God can change me or enable me to do one iota differently.  How would I describe myself?  Saved by the Grace of God and maintaining by His tender mercies, moment by moment.  To be very blunt about honestly doing anything could be something I may need to write a Dear LORD letter about.  Daily I fail and mostly all I do is whatever is absolutely necessary and the rest of the time I'm at the computer into something that is a sermon or a writing by another person and I post stuff here hoping to have fellowship and be in a close relating relationship with some Christians sharing what is on their hearts and minds.  What can I change and it truly happen and become a habit?  Reckon I've given up on most things that I think that "I should do" or have been put down about not doing... So, now what?  Don't know beyond this now moment and if I say I'll do such and such tomorrow and I'll do so and so for as long as it takes... well, reckon my history would show it to be a lie.  So for this right now second I hold on to hope in Jesus and what He did to pay for all my sins and just can only say please and thank you to Jesus for He knows what is and is not and what He wants.  May He make what He wants so and may I truly, truly, obey Him in just believing Him and if all I can do is write a post, or go brush my teeth, or fix a bit of food.... well, the rest He knows all about and hopefully the house will eventually look better and the chaos no longer be an issue.  One person defines chaos as Can't Have Anyone Over Syndrome... So here I sits typing words... saved by grace, functioning by tender mercies.... Hope this don't sound dumb, terrible or too remiss.... Jesus Knows and Jesus Cares.... Thinking and praying and holding onto hope moment by moment with gratitude because of Grace. 

 

PS: Change wasn't easy for me under the law either... Reckon I don't know what fruit I have that shows.... even in my failings I do remember that I did ask the LORD to do an extreme makeover on me some years back and it surly seems the outward things have become more of a cluttered mess... and you know what some say about how our outward 'stuff' shows our inward 'stuff'... God Almighty Himself KNOWS and people suppose.... welp, sort of spilled meguts a tad more...

Edited by Ginger, 14 February 2014 - 04:22 PM.

[chipped china]

Well said Candice, you have a gift of exhortation. I liked the point you made about consequences. I've often thought I could have had a happier life if had lived in His favor early on by being more obedient because I understood. But it doesn't make me sad because I must have been one of those souls who needed hardship to learn the lessons.  Now I feel like the only way I can change is to love God more than myself. It's hard to do with the sin nature and living in a world with so much ugliness but it's what I walk toward because when I empty myself of fear and pride then God can fill me with His goodness.

[ADVRider]

I've said something along this line before, but the problem with "planning" for change has one major flaw. Besides the other flaw that we cannot accomplish it. But it is this: you and I do not know what we truly need, or what really needs to change. But ahah! We think we do, because we see our mess every day. Yes, there are times we know what spiritually ails us maybe. But have you ever considered some of these things "we see" about ourselves are symptoms? And if so, the root causes might not be so apparent, and then what we think needs to happen or how, might not be the case at all. It's kind of humbling really, because in a sense, it takes us "changing" ourselves out of the picture. "Wow God, I don't even get to help you fix me."!! This might sound off, but there can actually be a sense in which we are fleshly about our sanctification. What do I mean by that? I mean only in the sense that we think we know what we need and try to act on it. That is a fleshly mindset as opposed to a truly spiritual mindset where we seek to know God's thoughts about our situation rather than our own. This actually takes a lot of pressure off of us because we now realize we are not in charge of what needs to happen. Again, it's humbling, because we begin to realize God does not need my input; just my cooperation. To His plan. It's ceasing from telling the potter what groove or shape to form next. Truthfully, I wouldn't even worry abough changing. You and I cannot do one iota that is real, internal metamorphosis. But God can, and He is at work in you. So guess what? Relax and enjoy God. Is that carnal? Actually, it is not, because I am suggesting to cease from YOUR labor, and enter into His rest. Do we know He enjoys us? He will do the work if you simply trust, follow and obey HIS leading. And His yoke is easy and His burden is light, and you will find rest for your soul. Candice, enjoying your posts. Missed you when you stopped by the office a few weeks back.

 

Okay, edit: By all means change something in your life if God has shown it to you and told you to, or something glaringly obvious and practical that it's a no-brainer. Didn't mean to hijack.

[Ginger]

Thank you John!  Your post is a 'conformation' on what God gave me and  you've said it so very well.  When I first got,  "learn, to learn, to learn to"  it seemed like a riddle.  Then little by little, the Lord did let me know what was not important to Him that seemed such a big deal to some people. I can get into beating myself up and the Lord gave me a piece of writing about coming to Him and being like a lump of clay in the Potter's hands.  Reckon when He decides to put a person on His Potter's wheel it can be even humorous and also very awesome... to think that when I may only feel as though I'm going round and round and then to get a 'Pause' and sense being in His hands.... it's beyond telling at least for this now moment. What may seem humbling to some may seem like being lifted up and enabled to look down from a position that just may be described as seated with Him in heavenly places.... I'm not trying to be more than I am only trying to share the best that I can and what He is doing in spite of the things that another person may see as only a glaring mess environmentally.  Should I pray for 'Susie homemaker' to be resurrected?  The computer is where my Bible and Bible study tools are and writing down simple tasks has become necessary for a checking to see when such and such was done.  So what used to be and what is .... well... This extreme make over had a lot more to do with coming to Jesus and learning of Him, being who I am as He sees me, rather that what I or others see and could or can say... and  what is 'funny' now is the things that are done matter more... And being able to enjoy the Lord and find out what matters to Him ... even if I may miss doing something He wants me to do, guess what?  He is gentle and kind in the way He lets me know that I've been doing my own thing and need to do such and such instead.  Neat the way the Lord is gentle when a heart desire is to want Him and want to obey... Our 'should do' can be laid aside and we can just sit at His feet like Mary did.  The Martha that wants Mary to do some tasks ... well, she has things to do ... What is a bit humorous is at times I can be like Martha and need Mary to come and help .... so it's a good time to listen and hear what Jesus has to say and do that.  Bless everyone with Grace and Tender Mercies for where they are Dear LORD and help us to seek your will and do whatever you want us to do, please and thank you........................

Edited by Ginger, 14 February 2014 - 10:18 PM.

[ADVRider]

Thank you John!  Your post is a 'conformation' on what God gave me and said very well.  When I first got,  "learn, to learn, to learn to"  it seemed like a riddle.  Then little by little, the Lord did let me know what was not important to Him that seemed such a big deal to some people. I can get into beating myself up and the Lord gave me a piece of writing about coming to Him and being like a lump of clay in the Potter's hands.  Reckon when He decides to put a person on His Potter's wheel it can be even humorous and also very awesome... to think that when I may only feel as though I'm going round and round and then to get a 'Pause' and sense being in His hands.... it's beyond telling at least for this now moment. What may seem humbling to some may seem like being lifted up and enabled to look down from a position that just may be described as seated with Him in heavenly places.... I'm not trying to be more than I am only trying to share the best that I can and what He is doing in spite of the things that another person may see as only a glaring mess environmentally.  Should I pray for 'Susie homemaker' to be resurrected?  The computer is where my Bible and Bible study tools are and writing down simple tasks has become necessary for a checking to see when such and such was done.  So what used to be and what is .... well... This extreme make over had a lot more to do with coming to Jesus and learning of Him, being who I am as He sees me, rather that what I or others see and could or can say... and  what is 'funny' now is the things that are done matter more... And being able to enjoy the Lord and find out what matters to Him ... even if I may miss doing something He wants me to do, guess what?  He is gentle and kind in the way He lets me know that I've been doing my own thing and need to do such and such instead.  Neat the way the Lord is gentle when a heart desire is to want Him and want to obey... Our 'should do' can be laid aside and we can just sit at His feet like Mary did.  The Martha that wants Mary to do some tasks ... well, she has things to do ... Bless everyone with Grace and Tender Mercies for where they are Dear LORD and help us to seek your will and do whatever you want us to do, please and thank you........................

Ginger,

 

I think I hear you....

[chipped china]

Wonderful posts! I must agree that when I am relaxed and loving the Lord, the little God things happen that I live for.