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Christian Existentialism


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#1 Candice

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 08:34 PM

I'd like to solicit your thoughts, understandings and comments on this topic. It's a bit to read here, but it you're interested, please opine.

After realizing that our church's pastor is strongly siding with Christian existentialism and has hired a young woman to conduct all counseling on his behalf for his flock, I researched and found that this counselor (marriage, family therapist) practices "Gestalt Existential Therapy". Of course this raised my hackles so to speak. The deflated mood I experienced left me wondering where to go now. I studied existential theory in college as part of my major coursework. I was a baby in Christ and knew it was a crock. Although, most of this was certainly from an atheist existential perspective as one would expect from the secular university system.

I've listened to many Ravi Zacharias lectures, some of which he incorporates Christian existentialism as an apologetic tool in explaining post-modernism. I love Ravi as I see his heart for God despite his strongly cerebral leanings. So....I note in bold some comments that I find interesting to explore in particular.....

As noted from Wikipedia: "one of the major premises of Christian existentialism entails calling the masses back to a more genuine form of Christianity. This form is often identified with some notion of Early Christianity, which mostly existed during the first three centuries after Christ's crucifixion. Beginning with the Edict of Milan, which was issued by Roman Emperor Constantine I in AD 313, Christianity enjoyed a level of popularity among Romans and later among other Europeans. And yet Kierkegaard asserted that by the 19th century, the ultimate meaning of New Testament Christianity (love, cf. agape, mercy and loving-kindness) had become perverted, and Christianity had deviated considerably from its original threefold message of grace, humility, and love.

Another major premise of Christian existentialism involves Kierkegaard's conception of God and Love. For the most part, Kierkegaard equates God with Love.[3] Thus, when a person engages in the act of loving, he is in effect achieving an aspect of the divine. Kierkegaard also viewed the individual as a necessary synthesis of both finite and infinite elements. Therefore, when an individual does not come to a full realization of his infinite side, he is said to be in despair. For many contemporary Christian theologians, the notion of despair can be viewed as sin. However, to Kierkegaard, a man sinned when he was exposed to this idea of despair and chose a path other than one in accordance with God's will [this seems to define me in some instances].

A final major premise of Christian existentialism entails the systematic undoing of evil acts [WRONG]
. Kierkegaard asserted that once an action had been completed, it should be evaluated in the face of God, for holding oneself up to divine scrutiny was the only way to judge one's actions. Because actions constitute the manner in which something is deemed good or bad, one must be constantly conscious of the potential consequences of his actions. Kierkegaard believed that the choice for goodness ultimately came down to each individual. Yet Kierkegaard also foresaw the potential limiting of choices for individuals who fell into despair.[4]

The Bible

Christian Existentialism often refers to what it calls the indirect style of Christ's teachings, which it considers to be a distinctive and important aspect of his ministry. Christ's point, it says, is often left unsaid in any particular parable or saying, to permit each individual to confront the truth on his own.[5] This is particularly evident in (but is certainly not limited to) his parables. For example, in the Gospel of Matthew (18:21-35), Jesus tells a story about a man who is heavily in debt (the parable of the unforgiving servant). The debtor and his family are about to be sold into slavery, but he pleads for their lives. His master accordingly cancels the debt and sets them free. Later the man who was in debt abuses some people who owe him money, and he has them thrown in jail. Upon being informed of what this man has done, the master brings him in and says, "Why are you doing this? Weren't your debts canceled?" Then the debtor is thrown into jail until the debt is paid. Jesus ends his story by saying, "This is how it will be for you if you do not forgive your brother from your heart."

Often Christ's parables are a response to a question he is asked. After he tells the parable, he returns the question to the individual who originally asked it. Often we see a person asking a speculative question involving one's duty before God, and Christ's response is more or less the same question—but as God would ask that individual. For example, in the Gospel of Luke (10:25), a teacher of the law asks Jesus what it means to love one's neighbor as oneself. Jesus replies by telling the story of the Good Samaritan. In the story a man is beaten by thieves. A priest and a Levite pass him by, but a Samaritan takes pity on him and generously sets him up at an inn—paying his tab in advance. Then Jesus returns the question, "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?". Jesus does not answer the question because he requires the individual to answer it, and thus to understand existence in the Bible, one must recognize who that passage is speaking to in particular. To Kierkegaard, it is the individual hearing the passage.

A good example of indirect communication in the Old Testament is the story of David and Nathan in 2 Samuel 12:1-14. David had committed adultery with a woman, Bathsheba, which resulted in her pregnancy. He then ordered her husband, Uriah, to come home from a war front so that he might sleep with his wife, thus making it appear as if Uriah had in fact conceived with Bathsheba. Instead, Uriah would not break faith with his fellow soldiers still on the battlefield and refused to sleep with her. David then ordered him back out to the battlefront where he would surely die, thus making Bathsheba a widow and available for marriage, which David soon arranged. David initially thought he had gotten away with murder, until Nathan arrived to tell him a story about two men, one rich and the other poor. The poor man was a shepherd with only one lamb, which he raised with his family. The lamb ate at his table and slept in his arms. One day a traveler came to visit the rich man; instead of taking one of his own sheep, the rich man seized the ewe lamb that belonged to the poor man and prepared it for his guest. When Nathan finished his story, David burned with anger and said (among other things): "As surely as the Lord lives, the man who did this deserves to die!". Nathan responded by saying "You are the man!". Realizing his guilt, David becomes filled with terror and remorse, tearfully repenting of his evil deed.

An existential reading of the Bible demands that the reader recognize that he is an existing subject, studying the words that God communicates to him personally. This is in contrast to looking at a collection of "truths" which are outside and unrelated to the reader.[[I agree that some passages apply in this manner; yet not all]6] Such a reader is not obligated to follow the commandments as if an external agent is forcing them upon him, but as though they are inside him and guiding him internally. This is the task Kierkegaard takes up when he asks: "Who has the more difficult task: the teacher who lectures on earnest things a meteor's distance from everyday life, or the learner who should put it to use?"[7] Existentially speaking, the Bible doesn't become an authority in a person's life until they permit the Bible to be their personal authority.
One of the major premises of Christian existentialism entails calling the masses back to a more genuine form of Christianity. This form is often identified with some notion of Early Christianity, which mostly existed during the first three centuries after Christ's crucifixion. Beginning with the Edict of Milan, which was issued by Roman Emperor Constantine I in AD 313, Christianity enjoyed a level of popularity among Romans and later among other Europeans. And yet Kierkegaard asserted that by the 19th century, the ultimate meaning of New Testament Christianity (love, cf. agape, mercy and loving-kindness) had become perverted, and Christianity had deviated considerably from its original threefold message of grace, humility, and love.

Another major premise of Christian existentialism involves Kierkegaard's conception of God and Love. For the most part, Kierkegaard equates God with Love.[3] Thus, when a person engages in the act of loving, he is in effect achieving an aspect of the divine. Kierkegaard also viewed the individual as a necessary synthesis of both finite and infinite elements. Therefore, when an individual does not come to a full realization of his infinite side, he is said to be in despair. For many contemporary Christian theologians, the notion of despair can be viewed as sin. However, to Kierkegaard, a man sinned when he was exposed to this idea of despair and chose a path other than one in accordance with God's will.

A final major premise of Christian existentialism entails the systematic undoing of evil acts. Kierkegaard asserted that once an action had been completed, it should be evaluated in the face of God, for holding oneself up to divine scrutiny was the only way to judge one's actions. Because actions constitute the manner in which something is deemed good or bad, one must be constantly conscious of the potential consequences of his actions. Kierkegaard believed that the choice for goodness ultimately came down to each individual. Yet Kierkegaard also foresaw the potential limiting of choices for individuals who fell into despair.[4]

The Bible[edit]

Christian Existentialism often refers to what it calls the indirect style of Christ's teachings, which it considers to be a distinctive and important aspect of his ministry. Christ's point, it says, is often left unsaid in any particular parable or saying, to permit each individual to confront the truth on his own.[5] This is particularly evident in (but is certainly not limited to) his parables. For example, in the Gospel of Matthew (18:21-35), Jesus tells a story about a man who is heavily in debt (the parable of the unforgiving servant). The debtor and his family are about to be sold into slavery, but he pleads for their lives. His master accordingly cancels the debt and sets them free. Later the man who was in debt abuses some people who owe him money, and he has them thrown in jail. Upon being informed of what this man has done, the master brings him in and says, "Why are you doing this? Weren't your debts canceled?" Then the debtor is thrown into jail until the debt is paid. Jesus ends his story by saying, "This is how it will be for you if you do not forgive your brother from your heart."

Often Christ's parables are a response to a question he is asked. After he tells the parable, he returns the question to the individual who originally asked it. Often we see a person asking a speculative question involving one's duty before God, and Christ's response is more or less the same question—but as God would ask that individual. For example, in the Gospel of Luke (10:25), a teacher of the law asks Jesus what it means to love one's neighbor as oneself. Jesus replies by telling the story of the Good Samaritan. In the story a man is beaten by thieves. A priest and a Levite pass him by, but a Samaritan takes pity on him and generously sets him up at an inn—paying his tab in advance. Then Jesus returns the question, "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?". Jesus does not answer the question because he requires the individual to answer it, and thus to understand existence in the Bible, one must recognize who that passage is speaking to in particular. To Kierkegaard, it is the individual hearing the passage.

A good example of indirect communication in the Old Testament is the story of David and Nathan in 2 Samuel 12:1-14. David had committed adultery with a woman, Bathsheba, which resulted in her pregnancy. He then ordered her husband, Uriah, to come home from a war front so that he might sleep with his wife, thus making it appear as if Uriah had in fact conceived with Bathsheba. Instead, Uriah would not break faith with his fellow soldiers still on the battlefield and refused to sleep with her. David then ordered him back out to the battlefront where he would surely die, thus making Bathsheba a widow and available for marriage, which David soon arranged. David initially thought he had gotten away with murder, until Nathan arrived to tell him a story about two men, one rich and the other poor. The poor man was a shepherd with only one lamb, which he raised with his family. The lamb ate at his table and slept in his arms. One day a traveler came to visit the rich man; instead of taking one of his own sheep, the rich man seized the ewe lamb that belonged to the poor man and prepared it for his guest. When Nathan finished his story, David burned with anger and said (among other things): "As surely as the Lord lives, the man who did this deserves to die!". Nathan responded by saying "You are the man!". Realizing his guilt, David becomes filled with terror and remorse, tearfully repenting of his evil deed.

An existential reading of the Bible demands that the reader recognize that he is an existing subject, studying the words that God communicates to him personally. This is in contrast to looking at a collection of "truths" which are outside and unrelated to the reader.[6] Such a reader is not obligated to follow the commandments as if an external agent is forcing them upon him, but as though they are inside him and guiding him internally.[yes, ok] This is the task Kierkegaard takes up when he asks: "Who has the more difficult task: the teacher who lectures on earnest things a meteor's distance from everyday life, or the learner who should put it to use?"[7] Existentially speaking, the Bible doesn't become an authority in a person's life until they permit the Bible to be their personal authority.

 



#2 Kevin Blankenship

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 08:46 PM

Whew! Over MY head. But I look forward to reading replies.


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#3 Big John

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 11:09 PM

Well!!  You ain't kiddin sister!  that was quite a read but it was pretty awesome.  I only ever read one book on existentialism and didn't really get it.  (I was like 17)  And I am not at all familiar with any of the potential pitfalls but this is certainly a big part of how I see God.

 

I DO NOT view the bible or teachers or preachers as authorities over me.  But rather it is when I hear God speaking that I am oweing my obeisance.  I am a huge believer in the idea of "revelation knowledge takes the lead."  That is to say that whether it be the bible, a preacher, a jackass or a hunk of concrete, whatever and whenever God uses to speak to me, I need to listen and obey.  I used to have a pastor who used to yell at us, saying, "you all carry around this big book!  Try reading it!  Let God speak to you!  Then you will change!"  We never ever taught people how to behave.  It was all about, "what is God saying to YOU!!!"  We very, very often would have services where, just by the leading of the Spirit, the pastor would open up the mic for anyone to share what God was doing or saying to YOU.  And the whole service was 2-3 hours of people getting up and sharing what was happening with God in their life.

 

Anyway, the point being that the only time the bible is doing any good at all is when you are reading but God is the one speaking it to your heart and mind!!  It only matters as it pertains to you directly.  Thats the only way any preaching is any good.  Its when you get up with soemthing burning in your heart that God has been dealing with you about.  I know that from all the teaching and preaching I ever did the only stuff that had a chance of touching anyone else was when it was something that was already touching me. 

 

I am an existing subject!  The Pharisees were not!  Most christians are not!   

 

And the whole thing about finite and infinite joining.  I've been studying, sharing and thinking about this for years.  I've shared it with only a few because it can lead to some seemingly weird ideas.  But I really really think this is a valid area for thought. 

 

Kind of babbling but I just wanted to say thanks to Candice because I was not at all familiar that there was such a thing as christian existentialism and the little bit I see makes a whole lot of sense to me.

 

I am sure that someone out there has some really screwed up thinking about how it applies, etc, etc.  But I just count stuff like that as spitting out the seeds.  Yah know.  Take whats good and pitch or at least shelf, the rest.

 

Very cool.  Very interesting. 

 

Big John


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#4 Ginger

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 01:36 AM

One Scripture came to mind for me...
 
2 Corinthians 10:5 NASB (5) We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,
________________________________________
 
Thankful to have listened to some sermons and a question asked and answered: What are speculations? Everything that does not conform to God’s will, every thought that does not conform to God’s thoughts. Everything that is not in agreement with God’s truth is nothing more than a speculation.
 
Grateful to God for His grace and tender mercies which is enough for me to ponder and muse upon for a long, long time. Think a lot on the Cross and being purchased by the blood of Jesus.  How I'm not my own but belong to Jesus. How there is a divine balance between the wrath of God and the mercy of God. Thinking of Jesus coming again, and O to see Jesus face to face. These are events that give more than I can begin to tell the affects and the effects of.  Can't help but think of faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.  And there are false teachers. We are to test and try the spirits to see if they be of God else we can get ourselves into one big convoluted mess.  How do we test and try the spirits?  Staying in and with the Word, pray to not grieve the Holy Spirit.  Reckon I best tend to working out my own salvation and back away from some things.

The Bible is what I'm to be guided by and the Holy Spirit does give me warnings to obey. Tried to be fair and looked up enough to know I need more of the Word of God.

Briefly checked online and it just made me so sad and then wound up feeling yucky sick  

 

...Jesus paid too high a price for me to fool around with things that are not according to His Holy Word!

In terms of the existence and relevance of God, there are three schools of existentialist thought: atheistic existentialism (Sartre), Christian existentialism (Kierkegaard) and a third school, agnostic existentialism, which proposes that whether God exists or not is irrelevant to the issue of human existence - God may or may not exist (Heidegger).

Although there are certain common tendencies among existentialist thinkers, there are major differences and disagreements among them, and not all of them even affiliate themselves with or accept the validity of the term "existentialism", which was coined by Gabriel Marcel and popularized especially by Sartre. In German the phrase Existenzphilosophie (philosophy of existence) is also used.

Dear Lord Jesus thank you for your paying for our salvation and please give me a fresh washing in your Word. Thank you precious Holy Spirit ... some research just makes me feel all yucky please keep all of us safe from deception and clean out the false teachers or cause us to put distance between ourselves and false things. May you please forgive us our sins and help us to be forgiving of folks who may only be ignorant and need you to send your Word to correct them so they don't mix falsehood with the Bible and give false counsel. We have so much to thank you for that you protect us from....


Edited by Ginger, 07 February 2014 - 05:07 AM.

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#5 chipped china

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 05:17 AM

Honestly... I had to do a little more reading to even grasp a little of the topic. Although I feel therapist can help people and I did go to one for a while that helped me get back on track, I believe all the answers to what ails us is in the scriptures. The rest of philosophy and psychotherapy is just gobbling gook to me.

 

I found this Kiertegaard quote interesting,  " What I really need is to great clear about what I must do, not what I must know except in so far as knowledge must precede every act. What matters is to find a purpose, to see what it really is that God wills that I should do; to find a truth that is truth for me, to find the idea for which I am willing to live and die(...) I certainly do not deny that I still accept an imperative of knowledge and that through it men may be influenced, but then it must come alive in me, and this is what I now recognize as the most important."

 

The article went on to say that: For Kiertegaard meaning does not equal knowledge, although both are important. Meaning for Kiertegaard, is a lived experience, a quest to find one's valves, beliefs, and purpose in a meaningless world. As a Christian, Kiertegaard finds his meaning in the Word of God, but for those who are not Christian, Kiertegaard wishes them well in their search.

 

I understand this type of therapy rests on the individuals responsibility. And that does make sense with each of us having to work out our own salvation individually. And I suppose if God calls us we will search to find the Voice and if He doesn't call....

 

God is Love is true. But most of the love we experience is man's love, philo. Agape love only comes through us from Him.  Perhaps that's what Kiertegaard calls finite and infinite. Terminology changes with time and I may not understand this correctly.

 

As for the question of despair and choice, is it sin? It's a feeling not a belief. I do know God can heal us from our emotional illnesses and injuries. As for us having the choice of goodness we all know what Paul said about that, but the more we die to self the more Christ comes out of us. He is the goodness inside us, least any man boast.

 

So is it right your pastor has employed someone to counsel/pastor his church? I don't think so but at least he did something to fill the need. It makes me sad that gone are the days when pastors would visit your home and be involved in your life. Does anyone belong to a church like that now?


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#6 Kenny

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 06:22 AM

The main things are the plain things


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#7 DonnaA

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 11:00 AM

Candice, could you please expound on this ... "I've listened to many Ravi Zacharias lectures, some of which he incorporates Christian existentialism as an apologetic tool in explaining post-modernism."  What exactly are you referring to that he incorporates as an apologetic tool ....  I really like Ravi and have enjoyed his commentaries ever since my son, who is into apologetics, introduced his works to me.  :)


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Now we have this treasure in clay jars, so that this extraordinary power may be from God and not from us. 

We are pressured in every way but not crushed; we are perplexed but not in despair; 

we are persecuted but not abandoned; we are struck down but not destroyed.

~2 Corinthians 4:7-9~


#8 Candice

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 09:21 PM

Candice, could you please expound on this ... "I've listened to many Ravi Zacharias lectures, some of which he incorporates Christian existentialism as an apologetic tool in explaining post-modernism."  What exactly are you referring to that he incorporates as an apologetic tool ....  I really like Ravi and have enjoyed his commentaries ever since my son, who is into apologetics, introduced his works to me.   :)


Here's a quote from "Just Thinking" on the rzim.org website. I've read many of Ravi's books and listened to many lectures where he makes reference to existentialism and Kierkegaard in his presentations:

".....When God made man in His image, He filled him with earmarks of His own imaginative genius. He gifted him with an imagination like His own to build kingdoms, paint pictures, sing songs, enflesh words, and wonder at His masterpieces. The imagination is ethereal. Like sunbeams, it cannot be fisted, but it warms the world and illumines the darkness. If we shine it rightly, it will aid us to love the Lord our God more fully, to see Him more rightly, and worship Him more fervently.

We didn’t unearth a new truth on that beach. The truth was there long before God made seashells. “Blessed,” said Jesus in His momentous Sermon. “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.” Two questions unfold. First, what is purity of heart? Dorothy L. Sayers, mystery writer and Christian apologist, said that purity of heart is “single-mindedness.” Soren Kierkegaard said, “Purity of heart is to will one thing.” I won’t argue with their insights, except to say that “purity of heart” is more than mere sincerity of mind and will. The word “pure” in Greek means “to be free, spiritually, from pollution and guilt.” Jesus said we would find this purity through His Word (John 15:3)."
 
Hope this helps.
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#9 Candice

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 09:28 PM

The main things are the plain things


Agreed!!! But, grappling with the whole thing at church is confusing and we know who the author of that is...!
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#10 Kenny

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 07:42 AM

Agreed!!! But, grappling with the whole thing at church is confusing and we know who the author of that is...!

 

Candice

 

I spent a good portion of my life trying to tackle and understand theologically difficult questions, as I am sure you have as well. After having personally tackled many of those theologically difficult issues I have learned, that to discuss them among other Christian's often brings division among Christian's. Nevertheless, we both realize that there are various theological topics being passed around out there which are not Biblically sound. 

As Chuck Swindoll has said; "If what is being said is not supported by Scripture, then turn it off"

 

As Christian's we won't always agree on everything. 

 

Therefore

 

In the main things unity

In the disputed things freedom

But in all things charity


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#11 Candice

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:39 PM

Candice
 
I spent a good portion of my life trying to tackle and understand theologically difficult questions, as I am sure you have as well. After having personally tackled many of those theologically difficult issues I have learned, that to discuss them among other Christian's often brings division among Christian's. Nevertheless, we both realize that there are various theological topics being passed around out there which are not Biblically sound. 
As Chuck Swindoll has said; "If what is being said is not supported by Scripture, then turn it off"
 
As Christian's we won't always agree on everything. 
 
Therefore
 
In the main things unity
In the disputed things freedom
But in all things charity


Kenny,
You're right in saying this so I won't be bring this divisive stuff up any longer. Thank you for being straightforward.

Love,
Candice

#12 Kenny

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 05:17 PM

Kenny,
You're right in saying this so I won't be bring this divisive stuff up any longer. Thank you for being straightforward.

Love,
Candice

 

Candice

 

I wasn't trying to imply that you shouldn't post this sort of thing. It's not divisive in itself. It's not divisive until someone makes it that way and I don't believe we have.

 

Blessings

Kenny



#13 chipped china

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 09:17 PM

I think topics like this are often brought up because in some way they have effected our walk and we need affirmation to whether we are correct to question them. The topic certainly didn't cause any divisiveness in me, instead it sharpened my knowledge with help from the Holy Spirit and scriptures.


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#14 Charles Miles

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 03:20 PM

Candice,

I  have always considered existentialism as being philosophy, and I`m just not sure how that fits with a relationship with the Lord.  If we define philosophy as man`s attempting to "explain" things using sense knowledge and his own reasoning, then things seem to become more muddled.  As I understand, faith and belief and not aspects of philosophy and can`t really be used when existentialism is used to problem solve.  I may be wrong about this, and probably am, but I`ll do a bit of reading in an attempt to answer the question.  The bigger problem here may be that a pastor or church is using philosophical methods to council people with problems who present to the Church seeking answers.  I have found in my own life that when I try to "reason or think" my way through problems dealing with the spiritual aspects of life, I really do not get anywhere at all. I can just see the Hebrews sitting at the shore of the Red Sea and trying to "reason" a way across, or watching David use existential thought as he was walking toward Goliath, wonder what philosophical reasoning went through Baalem`s mind as he listened to his donkey explain about the angel with a sword of fire standing in the path before them.  Sorry to use such poor examples, but I find that trying to solve difficult problems or situations using my own philosophical reasoning to give me a headache.  I do know right from wrong, and I do know that the Lord wrote His laws on my heart so that I might know, so I just take an easier way....I go to the Lord either through His written word or prayer(usually both) and take my council there. Maybe I`m just lazy, maybe I`m not as smart as existential philosophical councilors, or maybe I had rather take God`s opinion rather than my own...no matter how I "rationally consider the options" through philosophical questioning of my own fallible mind.

 

Sorry for the rambling post that is confusing even to me.  I sense danger here in this counseling  method being used by Christian churches.  We have a far better Counselor with whom to seek counsel, one who was sent by Christ to remind us of the truth, one who will always be with us if we ask, and He will comfort us while we have His workings done in us.  I just can`t see myself refusing the Counselor sent by the Father and opting to think it through myself and take my own advice. 

 

God loves us and He will not abandon us because He said He would be with us always, even unto the end of the world.  Just some thoughts from an old doctor who is loved by Almighty God and depends on Him daily.

 

Charlie


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#15 ADVRider

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 11:58 AM

I have read about Kierkegaard in the past in some of my studies, but I do not remember that much of it. Could it be that what he was saying was a truth in part, but the way it was phrased or stated muddied the waters? Or that some of his other ideas were a little off?

 

From the Wikipedia article on Christian Existentialism, possibly the most objectionable part is the wording itself. Like Big John, I think some of the description, in and of itself, is not all bad. But like any idea, perhaps Kierkegaard did make a major out of a side point. I do know there can be lots of wierd ideas out there like "authenticating yourself" and so forth, but it seems to me that Mr. Soren might have been stressing that simply "knowing" the scripture is not enough; seems he might have been saying in his own way that one must put it into practice for it to be a living thing. Of course, there is no mention of the Holy Spirit assisting the believer, either. But if all he was really saying is that the believer must act on God's revelation to him, I don't much have a problem with that. Paul also said faith without works is dead. If so, this was I presume to be his way of saying Christianity must be lived-out in order for it to be geunuine, rather than a strict, but dead and lifeless orthdoxy. Beyond that possibility, I don't remember much about Kierkegaard's views.

 

Candice, it would be interesting to know what your pastor is up to with this and what he thinks he will be accomplishing. Have you chatted with him about it?


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#16 Candice

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 03:53 PM

I have read about Kierkegaard in the past in some of my studies, but I do not remember that much of it. Could it be that what he was saying was a truth in part, but the way it was phrased or stated muddied the waters? Or that some of his other ideas were a little off?
 
From the Wikipedia article on Christian Existentialism, possibly the most objectionable part is the wording itself. Like Big John, I think some of the description, in and of itself, is not all bad. But like any idea, perhaps Kierkegaard did make a major out of a side point. I do know there can be lots of wierd ideas out there like "authenticating yourself" and so forth, but it seems to me that Mr. Soren might have been stressing that simply "knowing" the scripture is not enough; seems he might have been saying in his own way that one must put it into practice for it to be a living thing. Of course, there is no mention of the Holy Spirit assisting the believer, either. But if all he was really saying is that the believer must act on God's revelation to him, I don't much have a problem with that. Paul also said faith without works is dead. If so, this was I presume to be his way of saying Christianity must be lived-out in order for it to be geunuine, rather than a strict, but dead and lifeless orthdoxy. Beyond that possibility, I don't remember much about Kierkegaard's views.
 
Candice, it would be interesting to know what your pastor is up to with this and what he thinks he will be accomplishing. Have you chatted with him about it?


After a few times of going to the pastor and asking what he believes about something like replacement theology, predestination, present day prophecy and cessation theology, I received responses each time that were very vague. Intentionally vague. I'd not bark up this tree again because he's guarded. I'm not the only one who has receive this noncommittal stuff. Although, sometimes it is important for a pastor to have discernment enough to avoid an unprofitable argument on matters that are nonessential. He is just really self-protective.

I guess the choosing of a 30 something year old woman to be the official counselor at the church whose main method is Gestalt Existentialism, tells me that he must be at least tolerating this. Maybe it's the voting elder board that went over him on this. I suspect this is the case. I also suspect that this is only the beginning of odd things to come. And, for the church at-large, it is all part of a great apostasy. I don't know where to go from here, but to pray for church leaders and hope they will repudiate this stuff.
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#17 aldo

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 08:58 PM

Candace

 

If I may.... Let me suggest your encounter with Exististential Christianity has not been all it might be.

 

If I may, I would like to post some videos I have prepared. Perhaps you and others can review them.

 

Existential Christianity is based on the existing Christ... its roots are ancient and it has much to offer Christians today.

Looking forward to your feedback and further discussion on how the approach might prove of use..

 

Existential Christian Statement

 

Existentialism … next steps

 

Existentialism: Spiritual Experience

http://youtu.be/IHJfDNp3jQ8

 

Existential Christian Formation

http://youtu.be/5Gq6EvsmY70

 

Existential Christian Forgiveness

http://youtu.be/Ghba3pSTEyM

 

regards

Aldo



#18 aldo

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 07:47 AM

Kenny,
You're right in saying this so I won't be bring this divisive stuff up any longer. Thank you for being straightforward.

Love,
Candice

Here is the thing.... If Christ is alive and lives in you, what does his voice count for? Do we deny our ears and use only our eyes?



#19 ADVRider

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 05:22 PM

Aldo,

 

Is your book a little less formulaic in it's descriptions of CE? Just asking because the videos (I know they are synopses) are a little difficult for the uninitiated. Haven't watched all of them yet, though.



#20 Candice

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 06:58 PM

Aldo,
Thank you for sharing your videos. I am certain that I will trust the Lord with my spiritual existence and experience. Because, I cannot really wrap my mind around the content of existentialism. I don't know how we insert this into Christianity. Christ is beyond this - a Mystery. He exists in me and that is the gift of my salvation! Thankfully, He has given me this simple reminder just a moment ago: "But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty." 1 Cor. 1:27.

Thanks for sharing. I'm sure others on this forum will "get it". :)

Blessings,
Candice
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