13 replies to this topic

[Candice]

Today's Tozer devotional:

Where could we find a more gracious picture of the privileges that belong to the believing, trusting children of God? Notice that we have been provided a consecrated way into the very presence of God! What a contrast to the Old Testament picture of our first parents when they had sinned and failed in the Garden of Eden. God had to say to them, "Get up and get out!" As they left that beautiful estate and God’s presence, God placed "cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life" (Genesis 3:24).

It was the beginning of trials and sorrows for the human race, represented then by Adam and Eve. They could never return. And it has been my feeling that the whole race has harbored a yearning to go back to God’s presence, to return to Eden. I do not mean that everyone in the race wants to be a Christian. Too many are satisfied with the world, the flesh and the devil. But when you come to really know men and women, you often will find a wistful yearning, a longing probably not identified, to know what it meant for Adam and Eve to be able to dwell contentedly in the presence of their God and Creator.

In it all we see the blinding effect of sin. Men and women do not really want to be good. They do not want to submit to the will of God. Yet the longing for that Presence still is there.

But no one, unaided, has found a way back. Men and women everywhere have tried. It is said that in India there are enough gods for each person to have his or her own. Where is the tribe or nation without some god to worship or appease? But the search for a way back has been an empty disappointment.


Verse

My soul thirsts for God, for the living God. When can I go and meet with God? Psalm 42:2

Thought

Created in the image of God, as we are, our souls long for the presence of God. He is always present but we don't recognize His presence. Only He can satisfy that deep heart-longing and He does as we come to Him


I read a novel, "Havah: The Story of Eve" by Tosca Lee. I've not read any of her other works, so can't comment on those. I've only read a handful of "Christian" novels. This author beautifully weaves the heart-wrenching yearning to return to "what once was" before the fall. Just writing this reminds me of the book and how the writer pulled such emotion out of my soul with that same longing to be in God's presence and erase all the sin that ever existed.

Any thoughts???

[Kenny]

Today's Tozer devotional:

But no one, unaided, has found a way back. 

 

So true

[Ginger]

Thought about Adam and wondered if he remembered what it was like before .... Did Adam remember?  Did Eve comprehend what Adam chose?   Do we suffer as Adam or as Eve today?  Do we want to know Jesus more than we want to know husband, wife, child or friend?
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thinking of ...
God is ever the same always loving us, always providing a covering for us...
From fig leaves
to animal skins
to the blood of Jesus
to clothed in His righteousness
by faith
Till we see Him
Face to face
-----------------------------------------
 
Waiting and wanting
all to be saved
Watching  and praying
 
resting and trusting
wanting only Him
----------------------------------------


__________________________________________________________


Nehemiah 8:6 KJV And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with their faces to the ground.

[Charles Miles]

The fall of man has always been a multitude of lessons for me.  Why in the world would anyone who walked with God every day deliberately disobey Him? That is a deep question that must be answered while standing in front of a full length mirror.  Without God`s mercy and Grace, what a sad position we are in! Adam and Eve wrere not dumb, so I pose another reason for Adam`s sin, knowing that all sin is sin.  Disobeying God`s word is wrong and breaks a relationship that God would have with us through eternity.  BTW, when asking that question above, one needs to be standing naked in front of that mirror, just to see how helpless we really are.

 

Eve ate the fruit, true, but satan lied to her about the rules and punishment stated by God....but wait, she wasn`t present when He told Adam the rules about the fruit and the punishment if those rules were broken.  Had Eve ever heard anyone lie?  So just for discussion here let`s assume that Eve was tricked into eating from the tree.  Now, here comes Adam and he sees what she has done! He knows that the rules were broken and he also knows the punishment. How much does Adam love Eve? Well, he is the only man and she is the only woman on the planet and up until that point, their relationship had been perfect....now he knows he is about to lose the love of his life. When Eve offers him the fruit, could it be that he ate of it because he loved her so much that he wanted to be with her....wherever? I certainly don`t know, but that is certainly another way to read the story.

 

I do know this...if God had come to me the day before I lost my Fran and said that He was about to take her home that night and asked me what I wanted to do....I would have asked to go also. So maybe that depiction of what was in Adam`s mind is not too far fetched.  We read about their children having difficulty but nothing about Adam and Eve that suggests they were anything but man and wife...lovers for life. She was truely the love of Adam`s life, so maybe he just decided to take the rap with her. 

 

If I`m wrong here(and odds are I am) I hope the Lord will forgive me. We simply MUST love the Lord more than any thing on this earth, and that includes everything and everyone.  This is not always easy but it is necessary.  I will be the first to admit that I have problems in this area, so this is not a sermon, it is more of a confession.  I need to love the Lord more and show it more.

 

Lord please help me in my weakness. Lord, you are strong but I am the weakest of the weak and nothing without you,

 

Thank you Lord for knowing my name,

 

Charlie

[Ginger]

 Loving God is more than I can wrap my wee brain around beyond what I try to grasp about love.  As a woman and a mother all I knew as a new Christian was I knew I loved a man and a child and did not love God as much and sat and cried and cried while reading about my righteousness being as filthy rags.  I knew I didn't love God with all of my heart, soul, strength and mind, and I wanted to love God and didn't know how to make it happen.

 

When my child was lain on my stomach right after being born I knew something ....I'd participated in a miracle of life.  Even as an unwed mother I knew something clean had come out of me.  How a new born baby was a miracle of life and God let me participate in His creation as a sinful creature. 

 

Charlie, I loved and love my daughter maybe as much as you loved and love your Fran....

 

I don't know much but I thought of Adam and Eve being as innocent as children who didn't know anything about evil....

 

Being wretched and weak are my strong suits... being otherwise is only by God's most gracious and tender mercies ....

Thank you Charlie for your being strong in the LORD and for sharing your tender heart and love story

 

Please pray for me to think of waiting, watching, praying, resting, trusting and wanting only Him because I'm so very weak and not very smart about anything at all....

 

That day so long ago when I cried because I didn't love God like I loved my child or her biological father.... well, I did tell Jesus if He were here I'd kiss His feet and became aware of HIs presence for a brief time.... I've held onto that and don't know any more than that I'd kiss His feet....

 

I do admire all the Christians who bravely share their hearts here...

Right now I'm so very grateful for Charlie's love and humility that I'm bawl'in and will just hush and pray....

while viewing the Amazing Grace video again...

and just read the words that were before the song played...

God so loved the world that He truly saved a wretch like me....

the words of the song

and the words after the song

 

Sorry for putting too many words ...  thank you for your patience.... will stop writing now....

Edited by Ginger, 14 January 2014 - 03:05 PM.

[Candice]

Eve ate the fruit, true, but satan lied to her about the rules and punishment stated by God....but wait, she wasn`t present when He told Adam the rules about the fruit and the punishment if those rules were broken.  Had Eve ever heard anyone lie?  So just for discussion here let`s assume that Eve was tricked into eating from the tree.  Now, here comes Adam and he sees what she has done! He knows that the rules were broken and he also knows the punishment. How much does Adam love Eve? Well, he is the only man and she is the only woman on the planet and up until that point, their relationship had been perfect....now he knows he is about to lose the love of his life. When Eve offers him the fruit, could it be that he ate of it because he loved her so much that he wanted to be with her....wherever? I certainly don`t know, but that is certainly another way to read the story.
 
I do know this...if God had come to me the day before I lost my Fran and said that He was about to take her home that night and asked me what I wanted to do....I would have asked to go also. So maybe that depiction of what was in Adam`s mind is not too far fetched.  We read about their children having difficulty but nothing about Adam and Eve that suggests they were anything but man and wife...lovers for life. She was truely the love of Adam`s life, so maybe he just decided to take the rap with her. 
 
If I`m wrong here(and odds are I am) I hope the Lord will forgive me. We simply MUST love the Lord more than any thing on this earth, and that includes everything and everyone.  This is not always easy but it is necessary.  I will be the first to admit that I have problems in this area, so this is not a sermon, it is more of a confession.  I need to love the Lord more and show it more.
 
Lord please help me in my weakness. Lord, you are strong but I am the weakest of the weak and nothing without you,
 
Thank you Lord for knowing my name,
 
Charlie

First Charlie, amen for bringing this up (bolded area quote) about Adam loving Eve so much that he ate. This idea was brought up by a pastor of a home church here and when that pastor posed the question, he wept. I mean wept! Not that emotions are a sign of truth or anything, but I had not heard this before and my spirit agreed. Now, that may also be the first time that showed Adam loved Eve more than God and, of course, we are to love God first and not our "mother, father, sister...." You know the verse.

Also, with respect to your wife, Fran, passing. I can so relate because if I could have been on that airplane when it crashed with my husband in it as the pilot, resulting in his sudden death at a young age, I would have chosen to have been on it and gone with him! No doubt there because that was my yearning at the time following his death. And, still, this is just my own selfishness of not wanting to be left alone.  It seems paradoxical that it is our human nature but also part of being made in God's image to have that depth of love.

 

With respect to your being "wrong" about this, I believe the Lord intentionally leaves gaps and allows us to ponder.  That's not wrong.  Even an elephant who loses a baby or other elephants in its group grieves. This, of course, is an animal without spirit, but with a soul (personality, being) and God put that there.  Adam loved Eve and she loved Adam because they were both made in God's image and HE FIRST LOVED THEM.

 

Oh, man, am I amped up about this thought because it is just another absolute in knowing HE LOVES ME. HE loves you too, and it shows!

 

Charlie, thank you for blessing us with your words.

 

Love, Candice

[Candice]

One more thing...the pain of love ought not be there; even in elephants who grieve!

[Ginger]

...  ya'all please forgive me and perhaps grant some extra mercy of prayer for my 'getting on one' or being all over the place on this topic and meanderings off topic here and yon...

   Thinking of Charlie and of Candice sharing and how God said it wasn't good for man to be alone... and then about how many folks are old and live alone.... or in a nursing home.... then think on things posted and wonder and pray and flood-post.... (sorry but just rambling just cos... well I reckon I've been made aware and need to deal with some long-term unresolved grief... )  God KNOWS I never blamed Him or got mad at Him just don't understand or know very much about so many things.  (thinking of my 79 year old paraplegic husband and [our history] and that when we get to heaven we can take a long walk)... Reckon if I had the power to change anything that has happened I'd have not had him have his back broken on a race track 50 years ago... and I'm not sorry for posting this... Just thinking and praying and giving thanks that one day Joe and I can walk together... and admit I'm scared about him dying and the things that go with that... )  What a thing to blabber and blubber about...in a post......

   How can it be wrong to think about going to heaven or about things that bring us to think of how it was before Adam and Eve partook of the forbidden tree and the consequences?  And/Or "How it will be"... "And How it is now because Jesus is our High Priest"

   I am  most definitely "On one"...

     Seems it would be nice to walk with God like Enoch did and just be taken up .... that seems rapturous .... It's good to talk to God and pray and even to post to brothers and sisters ... I reckon we can have a corporate prayer-wash...  

      I'm bewildered by thinking of how Satan was the one who started whatever warfare by rebelling and causing 1/3 of the angels to be cast out....

     Where was Satan cast out to? Well Jesus knew Satan had the authority to tempt Him and He put the Word on him and Satan left for a while...  Didn't God say something about all the things that were gonna happen even before the foundation of the world?....

     The Beginning before the foundation of the world.....

     Praise God for Tozer saying how out heads would have whatever happen if we thought about... Was it 'Infinitude'?  (can't remember which book or tape or his words exactly) ...

    .... trying to think on heavenly things and Praise God for godly men (and women) who have given us their life works too.

    We have Paul writing brethren I would not have you ignorant.... and  throughout Christian history there are men (and women) who've given us their life and Bible studies to teach us and/or to nudge us to search the Scriptures to see if what they say is true...

    People who post here give a lot that blesses and generates thinking and praying too....

     I just don't know very much and try to listen and join in... sometimes I may miss the mark on being appropriate posting ... and I  tend to talk (or write) too many words that may not make a lick of sense...

    I  tried something new and tried to share...  found some music videos with some written words besides the words of the songs and just learned how to put em in a comment section... the videos I'd hoped would carry on from the Tozer devotion and somehow bless whomever listened....

    On one of the videos a man sang Amazing Grace and talked about how the slaves sounded before the words of Amazing Grace were written ...

..... O Charlie..... this was like  the "Groaning Prayer"....

   ....The man told of how only the black notes on the piano were used for the old spirituals and played Amazing Grace with just the black keys ... They didn't know about 'Doe, Rae, Me, Fa, So La, Te Doe'

   Well,  this has been an extra long write and I reckon  I've gone on and on and found out from writing all of this that we all deal with life, death, loss, and grief and sometimes fear is disguised, and sometimes sin is disguised.

    It is not easy to write and share and yet it is for healing and obeying....

    And I reckon dealing with some things God does stop the mental merry-go-round.... with his words, "Peace, be still".   All I can do is let Him hold me.... Lord, I do thank you for letting me share and empty a load I was ignorant of having crowd my mind and heart.... LORD, thank you for being able to write words and thank you for giving us brothers and sisters ....

     God bless each of you with His tender mercies and may each of your cups over flow.... 

Love and prayers,

Ginger

[chipped china]

Thank you Charlie, Candice and Ginger for sharing. The intimacy of your pain I'll keep in my heart. I pray the fullness of God love always holds you up.

 

BTW Charlie, Chuck Missler also believes the way you do about Adam loving Eve so much he choose to go with her.

[Kevin Blankenship]

On loving Jesus. When sitting around and assessing my love for Jesus I think of John the Beloved's words in I John: "If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?"   I have lamented over this SO VERY much.  I will go ahead and come out with it: I came from a house where the word love was NEVER spoken unless in this context: "I love my new shotgun"  "I love this weather".   There was NEVER, i repeat NEVER EVER any "I love you momma. I love you Daddy".   I only saw my mother and father kiss ONCE!!!  ONCE!!!!  No, not playing the 'blame game' here.  But this is how my formative years where spent and they carried over into my adolescent and young adult and adult years. It hasn't been long ago that I realized that 'love" was an action word.  That "Love" is something I do for someone who needs me. Not an overwhelming feeling of being needed and wanted.  That concept (being wanted or needed) is quite foreign to me, in connection to the word LOVE. 

   To complicate matters, Jesus asserted:  “If any man come to Me and hate not his father and mother, and wife and children, and brethren and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple."   

    John states that: "How can we say that we love God, and NOT love our fellow brethren".  And then Jesus says: If you olove them more than me, you cannot be my disciple".

Confusing, but a search for the truth in this matter will show that there is no contradiction. (I just haven't been enlightened yet)

      Concerning the Manifest Presence: I HAVE FELT IT!!! Or experienced it. Or whatever term is correct here.  Even to the point that I fell down on my knees spontaneously to worship.  Just out of the blue.  One minute I was walking along, feeling normal. The next minute.....OVERWHELMED by a powerful sense of God's nearness, Majesty, love, even to the point where I stopped what I was doing and just began to voice my appreciation to him. I was out in the yard. Cars going by. But I couldn't have cared less.  Oh....but if I could have those experiences on a more regular frequency.  But God knows what He is doing.

    One time, I ws reading the Gospel Of Matthew, and when I got to Christ words......I felt a super-intense passion for what He was saying. Tears flooded my eyes to where I couldn't read. I had to lay the Bible flat on my chest and thank Him for that.....whatever it was. I was later to read about the chaps on the road to Emmaus. And how they talked about the feeling they had while Christ expounded the scriptures.  They seemed to be the same feeling.  I LOVE IT when God reaches through and touches my old hard heart (and it's feelings) with His Presence.  There is fallow ground in my heart still. Not all of it. But there are still a few unplowed acres.  I pray that God have it all.  For I see the results of my living according to my own desires.....and it is the most EMPTY of ALL feelings. So VERY lonely.  I pray that God have the complete entirety of this mass of flesh called Kevin Blankenship. Without His interference in my life, I feel that I would perish!!!!!! For real.  And I believe that he can restore rational, wise, thinking to me. Great thread. Keep it going!!!!!!!

[Ysa]

Eve ate the fruit, true, but satan lied to her about the rules and punishment stated by God....but wait, she wasn`t present when He told Adam the rules about the fruit and the punishment if those rules were broken.  

 

Nevertheless, she must have been told about it either by Adam or by God Himself, since it was such a crucial issue. She might have embellished the order (which is wrong), but she knew the truth all along.

 

“We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

 

It is not the motivation why we disobeyed (deception, love of the flesh) that we should mourn, but the very fact of disobedience.

[Charles Miles]

YSA,  My concern has centered around why Adam ate the fruit.  Eve should have known better because she obviously knew it was forbidden and she explained to satan that it was forbidden.  I think he knew that he had her when she added some extra to God`s instructions.  But back to the problem with Adam, satan lied to Eve and it should have been obvious to him.  Satan told her that eating the fruit would make her as smart as God at elevate her to His level, and Adam should have noticed(because he knew God as a very close friend) that she was not anything like God after eating. Eve was tricked but Adam seems to have knowingly violated God`s instructions. Why would he do that after God told him specifically not to do that and what would happen if he did.  When one stands naked in front of that full length mirror and asks that question, the answer is so obvious.......we can`t make judgements about God`s instructions that contradict His will and expect things to continue to be good in our relationship with Him. A mistake can be corrected with prayer and repentance, so I wonder what would have happened if Adam and Eve had both answered God when he called them and fallen down to repent and ask forgiveness.  Had the relationship been so damaged at that point that God wouldn`t even listen to anything they said? Since this was the first recorded lie and the first appearance of sin, did they even know how serious their crime was?  Many thoughts about all this, but we know for a fact that now we have the reparation of that relationship...and we can speak directly to the Father to worship as well as ask forgiveness. Man, do we need to take advantage of this gift now, tomorrow, next week, and for the remainder of our lives.  The end of this marvelous grace seems to be our death in that when we die we are locked into the relationship we have at that time......and who we have that relationship with.  At the very instant of our birth we are looking into eternity and there seems to be only two places from which to choose, God or satan, heaven or hell, unbelievable joy with the Father or unbelievable torment with satan..but most people have difficulty with that choice......Why?   Probably the same reason Eve ate of the fruit.....she believed a lie.

 

Lord please help me to better understand your will for me.  Help me to see clearly what is true and of You.  Sharpen my eyes and ears so that I might make better decisions.  I am so very weak and You are so very strong, so thank you for letting me lean on you.

 

Thank you Lord for knowing my name,

 

Charlie

[Ysa]

Thank you. I can see it more clearly now.

[Candice]

Thought about Adam and wondered if he remembered what it was like before .... Did Adam remember? Did Eve comprehend what Adam chose? Do we suffer as Adam or as Eve today? Do we want to know Jesus more than we want to know husband, wife, child or friend?.

Ginger,
this is something I wonder about. We've gone so far from God that we know a friend better. It is truly a benefit of being a child of God to know Him and enjoy His presence and His peace that Adam and Eve lost in an instant we have to suffer to leave those we love behind when the are on another path. I think i have let husband and son be more than Him. That must grieve the Spirit as Adam's following Eve over his own Father - our real Father - Abba!