15 replies to this topic

[Candice]

I will come out and just say that I am struggling with the "Christian Life". When I feel under attack, my prayer life goes out the window. I read the psalms out loud and that's the Lord speaking for me. The other day, I read aloud Psalm 51 over and over and listened to it (not very well) in the car.

You have heard about my critical friend. I recently had to confront her with what I believed was just out right attack of me, my husband, my family, others in general. I wrote a letter that was kind, prayerful that I felt she could no longer tell me that my husband "doesn't know the Lord", is "a people pleaser" and "weird" because she offered him lunch at her house when he went over there to do some work for her and did not want to eat (he told me and her he'd eaten lunch already) "well, it's just weird and ill mannered not to eat food offered to you", my son "has a spirit" of this and that, my sister "has a spirit", and that my associating with anyone from the church we sometimes attend is going to lead to our judgment since they are blasphemers because they do not believe in the gifts of the Spirit. The meanness goes on and on. I should not go to church since my husband does not know the Lord. He is saved and prays; ironically for her and her many problems. Some of you have heard it before, so I won't belabor the details.


One complaint she has is that the pastor has is that the pastor has been married before, his wife divorced him. He is remarried. She told me ahead of time that she would confront him that he ought not be a pastor. I asked her -would it benefit the tiny church body of about 20? Would it build him up? Would it help the body? She said she didn't care. That it was wrong for him to be a pastor. I told her the passage means he can't be a polygamist - man with more than one wife - how did she know that's not what the passage of scripture means? "NO. It doesn't mean that". OK. So, how are you going to bless them with this attack? Go elsewhere if you believe this to be true. They had jack-o-lanerns on their porch of their (church) home. She became irate with the pastor and his wife and told them both to get rid of them. OK, but it was an attack. I told her not everyone understands what jack-o-lanterns mean in ancient pagan times! Be kind. We're all on a progression to maturity. She said I had no discernment. OK. Fine, do what you like.

I guess I am asking for prayer over my obsessing about how unfairly and how awful this feels. That my husband would even consider going to the pastor for her correction is an unbelievable step for him since he's more tuned to just blow most things off - even people. Also, I'm under such a sense of abandonment by God and betrayal that I feel condemned that I could have trusted someone. Again, I ought not trust a soul.

Please pray that I may know the Lord's presence even when I sit still - that I just know He has not abandoned me. I ask that my friend, who I know just has a misplaced sense of spiritual pride, would care more about love than being a noisy gong. She's not taking that message from me at all, but perhaps the Lord would impress it on her through His Spirit?

I know this is a rambler, but I just can't keep this down any longer.

[Ysa]

I will pray for you, your husband, this woman, your pastor and your congregation that God be glorified through all this mess. I remember He is the master of miracles, who can turn the - seemingly - greatest defeat into greatest victory for His glory. I remember instances from my own life, too, but the greatest one is, of course the Cross. The break-down of Peter or Jacob, just to name a few, are some other examples. I really believe God, the great Potter just takes the lumps of mess and helplessness of our lives (mine, yours, that woman's, or anyone's) and creatively shapes them according to His purpose. Hang on there, Candice! And may God comfort you and open your eyes - again - to His active presence in your life today and every day, which he promised.

[Charles Miles]

Candice, I somehow don`t think you are going to change this lady`s opinions about who judges sin, she obviously thinks she is the one to do this and doesn`t care who is harmed. Do I know what to say to her? No. Looks like she is bound and determined to follow her own path, no matter what the effect. I am reminded of what Christ did when the men were about to stone the lady who committed adultery. He didn`t argue with them or give them 40 reasons not to do the thing,,,,He simply said that the one without sin should cast the first stone. Maybe this would work with her.....maybe not. By all means continue to treat her with love, as it seems you have done. But if this stuff continues, it effects your family, and some of the attacks come at you, you might be better off just disassociating yourself from her. I`ll bet you will not be the first one to have done that.
Nobody can hurt people more than someone claiming to be doing the hurting in the name of the Lord. Pride and selfishness are terrible things, and mixed with partial knowledge of the Bible, they make a deadly soup to be served up in a Christian community.
I will pray that this works out without harm.

In Christ,

Charlie

[Lori Smith]

Candice,

I pray you will sense the Lord's embrace. I went back and deleted the rest of what I originally wrote after spending time with the Lord! My first response came from my fleshly nature and was not helpful or edifying! My apologies. I wrote a more appropriate response (I think) below.

Shalom,
Lori

[elizabethcog]

Praying for you friend in this hard path you walk right now,praying Jesus comforts and calms your heart and that of your difficult friend too,your husband and Pastor and those who worship with you.....Only God can make right what is His to right,we are to worship Him alone and love others,sometimes it is best to love from a distance.

[Lori Smith]

Candice,

I was thinking about all of this this morning and the Lord led me to Matthew 7. I saw these words in a new light this morning. Judgmental ways reap judgement. If you are judgmental, people will respond in like manner back to you. Who wants to be around a condemning person? Often we have to create some boundaries with judgmental people. They judge and we judge back. They create their existence.

We shouldn't give holy things to dogs/pigs. When we do, they rip us to shreds. It's best to keep some things to ourselves and to guard our hearts.

We should trust God with our lives and offer kindness to others. We should treat others the way we wish to be treated. We should live with an understanding that God is good and kind to us. Then we should live bitter-free lives and offer kindness and gentleness to others.

We have to be content with being part of a minority. Most travel the broad way. We should rejoice in knowing Jesus and His kindness. We don't have to feel bad about being misunderstood.

False prophets call themselves sheep! They don't say, "I'm a false prophet!" A false prophet, or a false teacher is anyone who falsely represents God and His teachings. You can't tell by what they say, you tell by the fruit. A thorny person who causes thorns to grow in the lives of others is a thorny tree! Beware of thorny trees!

If you hearken to these things, you will be able to stand! If you don't life will knock you down. God is good and His true followers are kind and edifying. True disciples help others stand rather than knocking them down with judgement. Jesus came to save. When we treat others the way we want to be treated, when we trust in God's goodness, when we surround ourselves with others who have this view of God, they help us stand against the storms and rushing rivers that life will assail us with.

Sorry for the rambling. I didn't have time to do a verse by verse in quotation-type of thing this morning. This is simply an aerial view that needs more probing.

Shalom,
Lori

[Julie Daube]

We shouldn't give holy things to dogs/pigs. When we do, they rip us to shreds. It's best to keep some things to ourselves and to guard our hearts.

Right before I read the above statement in Lori's post, the verse "Do not throw your pearls before swine" came to mind concerning this critical friend and your attempts to share God's truth with her. Also, if she constantly attacks you and your family, it seems a little ironic that you would refer to her as your friend. Friends don't constantly criticize and find fault - they ecourage and build each other up. If an admonishment is sometimes necessary, a friend in Christ will do so gently and lovingly, with the goal of restoration (the verse about "speaking the truth in love" comes to mind). Sadly, there are some people, including those who profess to follow Jesus, who are toxic. If we spend enough time with them, their toxicity will infect us, and we will lose our joy in the Lord. I know this is hard to hear, but you may need to protect your own spiritual walk by staying away from this person. It sounds like Satan is using her to spread his lies, and that makes her dangerous. If this person has made you feel condemned, that is definitely from the enemy and you need to be careful not to give the devil a foothold by listening to those lies ("There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.") I pray for God's protection, wisdom, clarity, and discernment for you in this situation. I also pray that the Lord will bring conviction, repentance, and deliverance to your friend, who seems to be bound by the enemy's lies. May she find freedom in Christ!

[Candice]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
Thank you, each of you, for your wise and kind words of encouragement. I befriended this 71 year-old lady at the small home church. She just seemed (to me in maybe what was my flesh - yes it was my flesh) to need encouragement. I recognized very early on that she had critical tendencies, but I figured it was stress with her family. However, it was all too apparent that since her son and daughter (who is a believer) would not speak to her or visit her, that something was amiss. But, knowing that there are hugely complex family dynamics, I just listened and sympathized with her.

I see now my error in rescuing people. I've given her money, gift cards, etc. because she was so broke that one time she had no money to fill her car with gas. Then, she would spend a huge amount of money (by credit card) on something questionable, but I believe it isn't my place to judge that. Maybe I now know why and shouldn't have been so empathic towards her. My husband told me I pick people because they have problems that I think I can fix. Maybe he's right. I guess I thought I could just listen and sympathize. To me, if someone needs help, they ought to get it. Guess I was wrong.

The Lord will prune my friend if she submits. I am being pruned and it's not fun, but I am eager to grow and this experience will provide that. My best, dearest friend moved about a year ago from Wyoming to Fort Collins, CO. That was about the time I befriended this lady. My CO friend and I are still close, but only talk about once every couple of weeks. She cried when I told her about the past year. I hadn't told her or my husband a thing.

My husband's sad that she believes he's not saved. He says I've prayed for her faithfully. He has spent money and lots of time helping her with some things she needed help with like foreclosing on her home, repairs, etc. He's not angry; just concerned about damage she could do to others.

So, please pray. My husband and I will meet with the Pastor tomorrow in hopes, not of disciplining my "friend", but of making sure he is aware that she is befriending two new babes in Christ in the little home church. They are both very emotionally fragile, have messy lives which anyone will have as they come out of abuse, cults, etc. She'd be the last person for them to be around with her criticalness and claiming people have spirits. Both ladies are attending worship alone, one is former LDS who brings her 12 year-old son. He is sweet and quiet, like my son. I'd hate for these folks to be on the receiving end of this criticism. I will see what the pastor wants to do. My husband will do all the talking. From what my husband said, the Pastor is aware of her going around causing problems. As Charlie so wisely said, this isn't the first time I guess.

I hope and pray that the Lord will continue to prune me, keep my eyes open and I abide in Him more than I currently do because nothing else will allow beauty to come from such ugliness. I can't change anyone's heart. But, I hope she will drop her pride and repent. I know I am turning around and know that this is God's way of pulling me towards trusting Him in all things, even those things with my son that cause panic.

Love to you all,
Candice

[Charles Miles]

Candice, This situation is really sad and this type thing hurts my heart. Maybe all of us could take this problem as a confirmation of what Paul is talking about in Romans 14 when he discusses judging and condemnation for things not "essential" to our relationship with the Lord. He says that if something offends my brother to the point of distress then I won`t ever do it, although he saw no problem with the eating of the meat, he would refuse to eat it if it caused dissention. Causing trouble among the believers is a VERY serious problem and does carry some really severe penalties. like millstones around the neck etc. We were discussing this kind of thing in bible study today and someone asked what we thought Jesus would do if he visited the class. Would he confront sin within everybody, or would he love us each where we were in our walking and striving? We are, after all, sinners who seek to be more like Him but often fail and fall short. If we have Holy Spirit within us, we don`t need our failings to be pointed out by another sinner who is acting as the accusor. I think we all know who the accuror is and where he stands on all this. "Who dares accuse us whom God has chosen for his own? Will god? No! He is the one who has forgiven us and given us right standing with himself. Who then will condem us? Will Christ? NO! For he is the one who dies for us and came back to life again for us, and is sitting at the right hand of God pleading our case." I do not and will not condem this lady, but I do suggest that her actions are certainly not like the actions of the Jesus that I love and worship. At the very least we need to search our hearts and be very sure we do not have this accusing, judging, selfrightious mind about our role in the Body. I don`t think that`s judging anyone at all, but simply watching over our own hearts in matters such as this.

Searching my own heart,

Charlie

[Julie Daube]

Candice, I can totally relate to your tendency to rescue people, and it's commendable that you have such a burden to help those in need. My husband and I have a burden to reach out to our neighbors at our apartment complex, and we have often come to the rescue of people who are servants of the enemy or in such bondage to evil that they destroyed everything good in their lives. After we gave some money to a couple who was being evicted, they phoned as continually, demanding that we wire them money (it was always a different reason . . .their car broke down, one of them was in the hospital, etc.). We are now convinced they were drug addicts. We were also robbed by this couple and at least two other people we had helped.

Does this mean it's wrong to help people? Absolutely not. Jesus told us to love our neighbors and to give freely to those in need. But He also expects us to use wisdom and discernment in whom we help and how we help them. For instance, the Bible contains numerous warnings against helping those who are God's enemies. (See 2 Chronicles 19:2.)

I read the following devotional yesterday, and it addresses this issue quite well:

http://sermons.world...g/en/node/24156

What Charlie said about causing trouble among believers is right on target. The fact that this woman has befriended those who are young in the faith is VERY dangerous. I am glad you and your husband are talking to the pastor. I am praying for wisdom.

[Ginger]

Dear Candice,
I've been reading all that's been written and cried and am praying. Still reading about growing in Christ and all the post there too.

Well, as I sit here sniffling and a bit teary eyed it is also a blessing to have such brothers and sisters in the LORD to edify, encourage and make gentle statements pertaining to any corrections shared.

Our Father in heaven is holy and as we come to Him and to our Lord Jesus we are embraced with HIs precious love even when we don't 'feel' HIs gentle touch while we are torn up over something to the point of obsessing it's such a bounty of 'Tender Mercies' that He is bestowing through those who've given comforting words.

As I've been reading each post the faith that worketh by love has been so many little candle lights held up and even held out to shine light where to step around a rock on the meandering path through this bit of forest.... God knows each step and where each stone of stumbling is and it seems to me that the God of all comfort is just letting folks hold up a lit candle that is ... well a bit of light .... don't know why I think in terms of a candle instead of a flash light but so it is ...

Tozer mentioned something about lighting our candles... The Pursuit of God by A.W. Tozer
Excerpt from: Preface

This book is a modest attempt to aid God's hungry children so to find Him. Nothing here is new except in the sense that it is a discovery which my own heart has made of spiritual realities most delightful and wonderful to me. Others before me have gone much farther into these holy mysteries than I have done, but if my fire is not large it is yet real, and there may be those who can light their candle at its flame.
A. W. Tozer Chicago, Ill. June 16, 1948.

Maybe as we share our heartfelt thoughts we somehow help one another to light our candle...

God bless.

Love, grace, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost,

Ginger


PS sorry for any errors... hope this taint too long...

[radar]

I am trying to get caught up with all the posts made over the Labor day weekend.

http://dailydiscernm...istian-brother/

The above is rather long study, but it goes to the heart of the matter. I am a "rescuer" person too. My pastor has on several occasions pointed out that my getting overly involved with some one's problems was actually getting in the way of God's discipline for that individual. The divisive lady has to be confronted of her sin, of sowing discord among the brethren, one of the seven abominations that God hates. Paul states clearly to mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which you have learned; and avoid them. The strong man must be bound. The spirit of division cast out into the hands of Jesus. Loose the warring and ministering angels with the authority Jesus has given us over all the power of the enemy. This is spiritual warfare.

Candice, your husband is right. You are doing things scriputurally correct from what I have seen. It is time to take it to the pastor because Satan will use the confusion to attack the younger brethren. Ezekiel 3:17-21 says that if you do not warn a person of their evil ways, when they die, the Lord will hold you accountable for their blood. If you warn them to turn from their wicked ways, and they do not, then you will save yourself. Pretty serious stuff and not sugar coated. But God said it and hard as it is, it must be done as there are souls hanging in the balance.

Strange as it may sound, I believe after reading the above posts, if I did not say what I did, then I would be held accountable for not saying what the Bible clearly states in this matter. Praying for wisdom and boldness in this matter.

Shalom,
Radar

[Candice]

Candice, your husband is right. You are doing things scriputurally correct from what I have seen. It is time to take it to the pastor because Satan will use the confusion to attack the younger brethren. Ezekiel 3:17-21 says that if you do not warn a person of their evil ways, when they die, the Lord will hold you accountable for their blood. If you warn them to turn from their wicked ways, and they do not, then you will save yourself. Pretty serious stuff and not sugar coated. But God said it and hard as it is, it must be done as there are souls hanging in the balance.

Hi Radar,
Hope you enjoyed your Labor Day weekend!

Thank you for the link, which I read in part tonight and will read in full tomorrow.

I'm not sure that my "friend" is sinning against anyone. To me, this really is just more a matter of walking in the flesh v. Spirit thing. We all do it. However, it has gotten out-of-hand, especially given that she is putting new believers at risk. With only 20 people maximum (and I DO mean maximum) in the church body itself, this is particularly awkward, sensitive and disturbing. Lori and Julie said it well, and I summarize, that I ought to be careful what I share with whom. I guess I believed this was an older lady who was wise early on. he once worked for David Wilkerson and Ravi Zacharias. She told me this the first time I met her. I think I was looking at what I wanted to look at. I'm not sure, probably my flesh.

I remember a couple of months ago, I had surgery on my hip and my sister was taking care of me for a couple of weeks. Early one morning, I had to leave for physical therapy about 20 miles away. My husband and I had agreed to switch vehicles for a couple of months. I could not use my very huge, four-wheel drive vehicle because it was impossible for me to get up into it with my hip immobilized. But, that day, my husband forgot and had taken his small car to work and left us with what seemed like no way to get to my appointment (thankfully I've muscular arms and managed to pull myself in with the ceiling strap). I wasn't feeling great, and I said something to my sister like, "Clueless - He never thinks of anyone else"... something like that. There was an immediate check in my spirit, and I immediately told my sister that I should not have said that. I then told my husband that I told her that and that I was sorry for bad-mouthing him. I could not just let it go - my sister is an unbeliever and I needed her to hear a confession. Not for show - for real. There've been times I've said unkind things and not responded in the Spirit of God by dropping my right to myself and walking with Him through confession, etc.

I suppose this is what I'm seeking in my friend. Her letter to me only says she's sorry I'm offended, but strongly defends herself. I don't know - maybe she can do this; she certainly believes so. Is it sin if she truly believes she has this gift? I don't know. I know it's painful to me - would it be painful to another?

I will go along with my husband tomorrow morning, yet not interested in her being disciplined. Just want the pastor to know so he can be aware. As it turns out, there was another new believer and she went forward (I guess to the pastor) saying my "friend" had offended her and she would not go to her house for dinner. So, it isn't the first time. It must have really upset her for this strong reaction.

MOST IMPORTANTLY: I believe, and have come to see this more as the Lord has shown me over the past weeks and even months, that tampering in Satan's world in the name of "I have a gift" proclamations is dangerous, especially when it involves naming "spirits". I don't believe these types of words should enter our minds, hearts and certainly not expel from our lips without certainty that this is from the LORD. Man, that's God's territory to deal with. We don't mess around with that. I am satisfied and content and at peace to leave that kind of accusation to Him and Him alone. Like I tell my son, "just because it's in your head, doesn't mean it needs to be said".

I have peace knowing that I don't need to know all things in the enemy's camp. I guess I'm a chicken.

Blessings to you Radar!
Candice

[Julie Daube]

I believe, and have come to see this more as the Lord has shown me over the past weeks and even months, that tampering in Satan's world in the name of "I have a gift" proclamations is dangerous, especially when it involves naming "spirits". I don't believe these types of words should enter our minds, hearts and certainly not expel from our lips without certainty that this is from the LORD. Man, that's God's territory to deal with. We don't mess around with that. I am satisfied and content and at peace to leave that kind of accusation to Him and Him alone. Like I tell my son, "just because it's in your head, doesn't mean it needs to be said".

This is so true, Candice. People with the gift of discerning of spirits need to be especially careful here. As someone who has that gift, I often hear the Holy Spirit tell me that a particular person is struggling with a specific stronghold, such as unbelief, doublemindedness, etc. But I never tell the person this! I use this knowledge in my personal prayers for the individual.

[Candice]

Update: We met with our pastor and his wife yesterday. I guess my "friend" has been causing lots of problems within the small home church body. I wasn't aware of this as she never mentioned it and we didn't spend enormous amounts of time talking.

I suppose I have peace. The pastor asked us what our expectation was at the end of the two-hour meeting. I said "nothing". I hoped she would repent and use this to serve others. This could be an end of the means? I told him I did not want her to be disciplined, but his awareness was important for others. He was already aware! So, now I feel bad because I had offered to help her pack boxes and do other chores as she moves out of her home. My husband said "no". We had offered her a place to live with us rent-free to save money to move to Florida since we have guest area where she'd be free to come and go as she wanted without even interacting that much with us. Alas, she has two cats she won't give up so she will be going elsewhere. She wouldn't accept our offer. The pastor said we were basically crazy to offer her that. He would have advised against it adamantly had he known beforehand that we'd offered her that. We said she could live in one of our rental houses rent-free if she would stay one year and save money - "those places are dumps" was her response. They're not terrible. They rent very quickly. I've lived in worst! Hmm. I guess it is completely in the Lord's hands. Why would I think I could have ever been of any help?

[ADVRider]

Matthew 10:13

New King James Version (NKJV)

¹³ If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.

 

Candice,

 

This passage came to mind. It kind of fits in a way. You are not obligated to lose your own peace when someone is trying to take it.