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Contemplative Prayer


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#1 Candice

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 12:19 PM

I do not wish to start a controversial topic. So, I pray that we won't get too riled up about this topic and stumble. My friend told me about contemplative prayer, also known as formative prayer (I think). From my little bit of knowledge on this topic, this type of "prayer" may involve various practices including "Spiritual Direction, Formative Prayer, Centering Prayer, Lectio Divina, Ignatian Meditation, The Prayer of Examen, Inner Awakening", my friend shares something that explained such practices can lead up to outer body experiences and levitation (Teresa of Avila). My friend is absolutely sick about this concept since she says that it is becoming very mainline in many denominations. Rick Warren, Brian McLaren, Thomas Merton, et al. I notice names that Tozer briefly mentions in some of his writings - mystics. I know Tozer's statement on being called a mystic. However, I want to know if this is the same as practicing the presence of God? These terms above give me the creeps. Just browsing Amazon, none of this witnesses to my spirit as from the LORD and appears to be eastern - new age. I get a very strong sense of evil. Any thoughts or experiences?

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 02:20 PM

Hi Candice. I read your post on praying the Psalms and feel that you have answered your question related to Lectio Divina. My own (sporadic) practice of Lectio Divina has brought deep insight and application of the Word (living, active, sharp as a double edges sword) and a deep longing for more of Jesus (the living word made flesh) in my life.

#3 Dave Dagwell

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:28 PM

Candice, find a thorough explanation on the subject of contemplative prayer at www.gotquestions.org/contemplative-prayer. Don't go there.
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#4 radar

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:17 AM

" These terms above give me the creeps. Just browsing Amazon, none of this witnesses to my spirit as from the LORD and appears to be eastern - new age. I get a very strong sense of evil."



The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, is witnessing with your spirit and giving you a warning that this is an error. Personally, I find that when I lose my peace about something, I check it out closely to see why I am not a peace, and usally find that the Spirit is warning me to beware.

We are told in Luke 21:19 in your patience possess your souls. We pray with an acute, fervent manner. One of the snares of the Devil is to try to blank our minds or have our minds wander in prayer. This has been my experince when I tried some of these things you mentioned at an earlier stage in my walk with Jesus.

Hope this helps and may the Lord Jesus Christ bless you!

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven."


#5 Charles Miles

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:20 AM

I have always enjoyed reading many of the Psalms as prayers and meditating on the majesty of God as a form of worship. I see nothing wrong with reading and meditating on scripture...I do think Paul suggests that to us. BUT, I think radar has a most valid point about this Lectio Divia. I didn`t know there was such a name. I have always been instructed to "pray earnestly and with a purpose" and I guess that is instruction in not letting one`s mind wander during our visits with the Lord. At first blush the reading of scripture, meditating on the meanings, and prayer are worshipping, and to many of us that is just what it is, but I can see where (as man is prone to do) carrying this too far and going into areas where the mind is totally open to whatever might walk in and speak, could create problems. There are just so many wonderful attributes of God that can be a focus of concentration that I don`t see how one can allow a totally blank mind to remain so anything other than God would be present.

I am not sure I actually got said what I meant to say, but let me again say, radar has a point and I can see where this type of thing could possibly get out of hand. Like Candice, I don`t have peace about it. I don`t say it is wrong for everyone, but it is wrong for me and I will not go there in my worship and prayer time. Maybe some of the pastors could expound on their knowledge and experience with this subject.

Peace be with you all,

Charlie
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#6 Candice

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:16 PM

Candice, find a thorough explanation on the subject of contemplative prayer at www.gotquestions.org/contemplative-prayer. Don't go there.

Dave, thank you for the link. I read some of it and, as I expected, I believe my friend is correct. I suppose this is why Jesus asked if he would find faith upon His return. But, HE is still on His throne despite. I believe people are seeking deeply, but discernment is lacking in some.
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#7 Candice

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:16 PM

The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, is witnessing with your spirit and giving you a warning that this is an error. Personally, I find that when I lose my peace about something, I check it out closely to see why I am not a peace, and usally find that the Spirit is warning me to beware.

Radar, thank you for your encouraging words.

#8 Thinker

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 05:34 AM

Candice, This stuff is dangerous and loaded with error. It looks good on the surface but is not Scriptural. Olive Tree Ministries has some excellent materials on these kinds of things. Trust your instincts (above) on this. Thinker (Ron)
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#9 Candice

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 03:00 PM

Thank you Ron (Thinker) for your referral to Olive Tree. This is a bit to read, but anyone who's interested can read from this excellent summary the links which are directly quoted from new age, occultist magazines. Sorry, the return/enter key doesn't seem to work on this forum for some odd reason, thus the poor spacing, etc. All of this is quoted as follows: "The following excerpts are all from New Age, Eastern thought, and occultic books and magazines:
“Those who have practiced Transcendental Meditation may be surprised to learn that Christianity has its own time-honored form of mantra meditation. The technique, called Centering Prayer, draws on the spiritual exercises of the Desert Fathers, the English devotional classic, The Cloud of Unknowing, and the famous Jesus Prayer.”1—from the book, As Above, So Below (a New Age treatise)
“Reliance on a mantric centering device has a long history in the mystical canon of Christianity.”2—As Above, So Below
An Omega Institute Mind, Body, Spirit book titled Contemplative Living endorses several of the authors we are concerned about: Father Thomas Keating, Thomas Merton, Henri Nouwen, Julian of Norwich, John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila. Omega Institute is the nation’s largest holistic, New Age learning center.3
“The meditation of advanced occultists is identical with the prayer of advanced mystics: it is no accident that both traditions use the same word for the highest reaches of their respective activities”—contemplation.4—from the book, The Mission of Mysticism
“Kundalini has long been known in Taoist, Hindu, and Buddhist spirituality.”5 “Since this energy [Kundalini energy] is also at work today in numerous persons who are devoting themselves to contemplative prayer, this book is an important contribution to the renewal of the Christian contemplative tradition.”6 —Kundalini Energy and Christian Spirituality
II. Main Proponents of Contemplative Prayer Have Been Aligned With Eastern Religion
Secondly, major proponents of the contemplative prayer movement have been or are aligned with Eastern religion. Henri Nouwen and Thomas Merton, considered by many to be devout Christians, have intermingled their form of Christianity with Zen, Buddhism and Sufism. In Henry Nouwen’s own book, Pray to Live,7 he describes Merton as being heavily influenced by Hindu monks. Consider also the following quotes:
“(Thomas) Merton had encountered Zen Buddhism, Sufism, Taoism and Vedanta many years prior to his Asian journey. Merton was able to uncover the stream where the wisdom of East and West merge and flow together, beyond dogma, in the depths of inner experience. . . . Merton embraced the spiritual philosophies of the East and integrated this wisdom into [his] own life through direct practice.” 8—from Yoga Journal magazine
“[T]he author shows a wonderful openness to the gifts of Buddhism, Hinduism and Muslim religion. He discovers their great wisdom for the spiritual life of the Christian and does not hesitate to bring that wisdom home.”9 —Henri Nouwen, in the foreword of a book on meditation.
“This mystical stream [contemplative prayer] is the Western bridge to Far Eastern spirituality . . . It is no accident that the most active frontier between Christian and Eastern religions today is between contemplative Christian monks and their Eastern equivalents. Some forms of Eastern meditation informally have been incorporated or adapted into the practice of many Christian monks, and increasingly by other Christians.”10—Tilden Edwards, founder of the Shalem Institute
III. Methods in Contemplative Prayer Are Same As In Eastern Religion
According to The New Age Movement and The Biblical Worldview, meditation, chanting mantras, body disciplines, guided imagery, religious mysticism, self-realization and at-one-ment are all part of New Age and Eastern practices.11
“The techniques [Herbert] Benson teaches–silence, appropriate body posture and above all, emptying the mind through repetition of prayer—have been the practices of mystics in all the great world religions. And they form the basis on which most modern spiritual directors guide those who want to draw closer to God.”12—Newsweek
“Silence is the language God speaks . . . says Thomas Keating who taught ‘centering prayer’ to more than 31,000 people in just one year. Keating suggests that those who pray repeat some ‘sacred word’, like God or Jesus.”13—Newsweek
“The twentieth century, which has seen so many revolutions, is now witnessing the rise of a new mysticism within Christianity. . . . For the new mysticism has learned much from the great religions of Asia. It has felt the impact of yoga and Zen and the monasticism of Tibet. It pays attention to posture and breathing; it knows about the music of the mantra and the silence of samadhi.”14—The Mystical Way
“Now what I say of Zen is true also of Christian mysticism. It also leads to an altered state of consciousness where all is one in God.”15 —The Mystical Way
“Do not reflect on the meaning of the word; thinking and reflecting must cease, as all mystical writers insist. 16—Contemplation: A Christian Path
“The repetition [of a word or phrase] can in fact be soothing and very freeing, helping us, as Nouwen says, ‘to empty out our crowded interior life and create the quiet space where we can dwell with God.’”17 —Jan Johnson, from her popular book for Christians, When the Soul Listens
IV. Authors in the Evangelical Church Have Latched Onto Contemplative Prayer
Some very popular authors in the evangelical church have latched on to contemplative prayer as a way to go deeper with God. Richard Foster and Brennan Manning have held countless workshops and speak in churches, seminaries, and youth gatherings all across the country.
“Christians . . . have developed two fundamental expressions of Unceasing Prayer. The first . . . is usually called aspiratory prayer or breath prayer. The most famous of the breath prayers is the Jesus Prayer. It is also possible to discover your own individual breath prayer. . . . Begin praying your breath prayer as often as possible.”18—Richard Foster, from his book, Prayer: Finding the Heart’s True Home
In Richard Foster’s 1998 edition of Celebration Of Discipline, Foster makes several recommendations of books that are “helpful” to read. He heartily endorses Tilden Edward’s book, Spiritual Friend. Here are some quotes from Edwards’ book:


“This mystical stream [contemplative prayer and other monastic traditions] is the Western bridge to Far Eastern spirituality (and to that of Sufis Moslems …); This exchange, together with the more popular Eastern impact in the West through transcendental meditation, Hatha Yoga, the martial arts, and through many available courses on Eastern religions in universities, has aided a recent rediscovery of Christian apophatic mystical tradition.”19
“Thomas Merton in many ways helped pave the way for recent serious Christian investigation of these potential Eastern contributions.” 20
“The new ecumenism involved here is not between Christian and Christian but between Christians and the grace of other intuitively deep religious traditions.”21

“A simple method of contemplative prayer (often called centering prayer . . . ) has four steps . . . choose a single sacred word . . . repeat the sacred word inwardly, slowly, often.”22—Brennan Manning, The Signature of Jesus
“During a conference on contemplative prayer, the question was put to Thomas Merton: ‘How can we best help people (not just Christians) to attain union with God?’ His answer was very clear. We must tell them that they are already united with God. Contemplative prayer is nothing other than coming into consciousness of what is already there.”23—Brennan Manning
In an interview, Brennan Manning recommends William O’ Shannon’s book, Silence on Fire and Thomas Keating’s book on centering prayer, Open Mind, Open Heart. In Silence on Fire, O’Shannon blasts the Christian, biblical God:24
This is a typical patriarchal notion of God. He is the God of Noah who sees people deep in sin, repents that He made them and resolves to destroy them. He is the God of the desert who sends snakes to bite His people because they murmured against Him. He is the God of David who practically decimates a people . . . He is the God who exacts the last drop of blood from His Son, so that His just anger, evoked by sin, may be appeased. This God whose moods alternate between graciousness and fierce anger. This God does not exist.25
V. Finding the “God” Within vs. What the Bible Says About the Heart of Man
It is important to note here that the purpose of contemplative prayer is to enter an altered state of consciousness in order to find one’s true self, thus finding God. This true self relates to the belief that man is basically good. Christian proponents of contemplative prayer teach that all human beings have a divine center and that all, not just born-again believers, should practice contemplative prayer. The belief is that in the heart of man we find God (i.e., that we are God).
“The God who dwells in our inner sanctuary is the same as the one who dwells in the inner sanctuary of each human being.”26—Henri Nouwen from his book Here and Now
“Deep within us all there is an amazing inner sanctuary of the soul, a holy place, a Divine Center.”27 —Thomas Kelly as quoted by Richard Foster in Streams of Living Waters
[Even people,]”who have yet to turn their lives over to Jesus Christ—can and should practice them [spiritual disciplines].”28—Richard Foster
f I find Christ, I will find my true self and if I find my true self, I will find Christ.”29—Brennan Manning in Abba’s Child
“[O]ccultism is defined as the science of mystical evolution; it is the employment of the hidden [i.e. occult] mystical faculties of man to discern the hidden reality of nature, i.e. to see God as the all in all.”30 —The Mission of Mysticism
The Bible reveals that in the heart (center) of man our true self is not “God” but rather sinful and wicked:


But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart: and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, and blasphemies. (Matthew 15: 18,19)
For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. (Mark 7: 21,22, emphasis added)
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? (Jeremiah 17:9)

The Bible also clearly warns against repetitive prayer and also tells us we cannot find God unmediated (i.e., without Christ).
And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. (Matthew 6:7)
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus. (1 Timothy 2:5)
The following are the titles of several popular books and a list of people the authors make reference and recommendation to in those books:
Ragamuffin Gospel by Brennan Manning: Thomas Merton, Henri Nouwen, Paul Tillich, Teilhard de Chardin, Carl Jung, M. Basil Pennington, Anthony De Mello
Abba’s Child by Brennan Manning: Richard Foster, Henri Nouwen, Thomas Merton, Carl Jung, Morton Kelsey, Rainer Maria Rilke, Blaise Pascal, Simon Tugwell, David Seamands, John Bradshaw, Meister Eckhart, Leo Tolstoy, Anthony De Mello, Scott Peck
Prayer: Finding the Heart’s True Home by Richard Foster: Thomas Merton, Madam Guyon, Catherine de Haeck Doherty (Christian Spirituality of the East for Western Man), Sue Monk Kidd
Celebration of Discipline by Richard Foster: Thomas Merton, Carl Jung, Leo Tolstoy, mystic Richard Rolle, Thomas Kelly, Morton Kelsey, Evelyn Underhill, Meister Eckhart, Blaise Pascal, Lao-tse of China, Tilden Edwards
[i]The Way of the Heart
by Henri Nouwen: Thomas Merton, Taoist philosopher Chuang Tzu, Teilhard de Chardin, Willigis Jager
CONCLUSION:
It is ironic that in the last century more Christians have died for their faith in other countries than have died in past centuries combined. Many of these Christians have departed from Islam, Hinduism, or Buddhism to meet their executioners. What would these martyrs of the faith say to us if they could speak of our current western practice of intermingling Christianity with Eastern religion and the occult? The Bible warns against such mixture:
You cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils; you cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table and of the table of devils. (1 Corinthians 10: 21, 22)
Jesus never taught his disciples techniques to attain oneness with God, but rather spoke of Himself as the Way. In fact, the entire New Testament was written to dispute the idea that people can reach God through religious efforts and reveals that Jesus Christ is the only answer. In conclusion, the contemplative movement is founded on the following false premises*:
The heart of man is basically good and (it has a divine center). vs. The heart of man is wicked—A DENIAL OF THE SIN NATURE
Man can find God through his own efforts regardless of what religion he has embraced. vs. Jesus referred to Himself as the Way, the Truth, and the Life.— A DENIAL OF THE ATONEMENT
God is delighted by chanting and similar methods of meditative prayer. vs. Jesus said that He isn’t.—A DENIAL OF GOD’S PERSONAL NATURE
With false premises as these, the conclusions can only be erroneous. The Bible creates the proper understanding and balance of 1) man as sinful, 2) needing a redeemer, 3) with whom he can have an abundant life.
* In philosophy, every “argument” must have a premise and a conclusion, but if your premises are false, it will inevitably lead you to a false conclusion.
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#10 Charles Miles

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 05:28 AM

Candice, Your conclusions are absolutely right on the mark! These things taken from other belief systems and incorporated into Christianity to "help us get closer to God" are worthless and spoken of by Jesus during his ministry here. These other "added" things have been with us since the fall in the garden and have never done anything but cause heartache in the long run. Your research was excellent reading and educational, for myself anyway. I don`t doubt for a second that some of these men who brought this stuff into their prayer life were good Christian men who allowed themselves to let their guard down for just a minute, and then didn`t think about what just entered their belief system. Oh, there is such a fine line between true worship of God vs messing up worship by adding men`s knowledge and actions to what God said he wanted as worship. There is nothing we can do to move closer to God. He however has already reached down and sacrificed himself so we can associate with him. All praise be to God the Father, His Son, and Holy Spirit for loving us enough to do what He has done for us, and is doing for us. Your brother in Christ, Charlie
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#11 Shaun DuFault

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 09:03 AM

Candance,

Thank you for your bravery, entering into the "fray". I am in agreement that most if not all that passes for "contemplative prayer" lacks a strong biblical foundation. One preson comment that it just isn't for them but maybe for others. That is of some concern to myself. If such teaching is erroneous, then we should be willing to correct such false understandings and encourage people to think Biblically about this very important issue. Sadly, many love to make their "experience" the rule of truth than actaully allow the Bible to be the standard.

Thanks again!

#12 Charles Miles

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 09:39 AM

Shaun, I guess the person who said that the contemplative prayer was not for them but might be OK for others...was me. Please allow me to explain what I meant to say there. I know what I call worship for myself and it is a daily thing for me, but has nothing at all to do with this contmplative, meditative, centering prayer as descfribed above. The Lord tells us what He considers worship and what emphasis He places on obedience to His specifications in that reguard. I certainly am no prophet and I cannot speak for the Lord in all these matters....I just speak for myself and my relationship with my God. Others may not worship exactly as I worship, so I try not to be too judgemental about how another worships. I do not agree with many worship styles that I see today, but I try my best not to be judgemental, if possible. There was a time that I didn`t worship as I should have and God in His grace and longsuffering helped me to work all of it out....I praise Him for it. Yes, this stuff is dangerous and maybe I should be more agressive about it, but I just want to be very careful when approaching people about their personal worship of God.

Your brother in Christ

Charlie
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#13 Pastor Robert Young

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:20 AM

Hagah s?'·akh meleta?


Jos 1:8 "This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate in it day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success.
Psa 77:6 I call to remembrance my song in the night; I meditate within my heart, And my spirit makes diligent search
1Ti 4:15 Meditate on these things; give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all.
The Hebrew and Greek words instruct us to contemplate, meditate, ponder, and yes “to mutter” but man would reinvent the word to mean and be applied in a different fashion. To focus on a word or a concept or a spirit; to seek a hidden meaning beyond the definition. And herein lies the problem.
Before we throw the baby out with the bath water lets remember that all truth is God’s truth. That what God has intended for our good Satan has used the evil in men’s hearts to pervert and soil. There is nothing wrong with meditating on a psalm or a proverb or any aspect of God’s word. There is nothing wrong with praying back God’s word and diligently searching for application of God’s truth. The problem comes when we change our focus and redirect our intent. The subtle evil of seeking new meaning and a focus away from God is the path which leads us to Satan’s place for us rather than God’s place for us. So in reality it is not the action of contemplative prayer and meditation that is wrong it is the focus and intent. My focus should be on God and my intent should be in how I need to apply God’s truth to my life so that I am in line with how God wants me to live. 2 tim. 2:15 says; Study to show yourself approved onto God rightly dividing the word of truth.
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#14 Thinker

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 08:14 AM

Pastor Young's thoughts (above) are discerning. So many, often good, things are distorted by the enemy. I would add a caution. It is to make sure the valid is not implicitly identified with some of these distortions. For example: "contemplative prayer" a good term, in and of itself, has been distorted to mean some things different from Biblical meditation. People, untaught in the Word might think that we endorse some of these errors. We can't be too careful, especially in these days. His best! Thinker (Ron)

#15 Kevin Blankenship

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:42 PM

The "Centering Prayer" is the one that caught my eye and five red flags flew up in the twinking of an eye. It's New Age vernacular. Tread lightly. Carry the Sword of the Spirit. be ready to slash, and thrust in and pull out. But mainly....PULL OUT and "shun the very appearance" of such. my two cent piece (i found one the other day, 1865 two cent coin!!! with my metal detector) worth.
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#16 Pastor Robert Young

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:12 PM

It really is a shame we have to be so careful about the terms we use, but we do..plain and simple, they captured the terms from us and miss used them. But that is the world we live in. And as soon as we select new terms they will attempt to capture them as well. But we must keep the truth pure and unperverted by the world. In the same sense however, keep the very words of the Bible reguardless of what they do.
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#17 tim yakich

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 08:19 PM

This practice of contemplative prayer is dangerous and directly opposed to the word of God!!  It is practiced and promoted by the apostate Roman Catholic church, from which I escaped, and Gnostics.  Those on this site that are "o.k." with this type of "prayer" are leading you down a destructive, deceptive path.  I currently attend and am scheduled to join a C&MA church in Pittsburgh, and I am bothered by the fact that the church is offering a Men's Growth Group this January that is featuring Gary Thomas' book, "Thirsting For God:Spiritual Refreshment For the Sacred Journey".  This man also promotes contemplative prayer, Roman Catholic mystics (Theresa of Avila and John of the Cross, among others).  We in the C&MA must be Berean's and must be willing to alert our brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ of the dangers that are infiltrating the church.  This is not a joke and now that you know the dangers of this sin, you must cease and desist immediately.  Committing sins in one thing, but practicing them is another...don't listen to those who arent' taking this seriously,  either they don't care about your salvation/walk with Christ or they are sadly misinformed.

 

Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?  2 Corinthians 6:14

 

 

http://www.gotquesti...tio-divina.html

 

Question: "What is Lectio Divina?"

Answer:
Lectio Divina is Latin for "divine reading," "spiritual reading," or "holy reading" and represents a method of prayer and scriptural reading intended to promote communion with God and provide special spiritual insights. The principles of lectio divina were expressed around the year 220 and later practiced by Catholic monks, especially the monastic rules of Sts. Pachomius, Augustine, Basil, and Benedict.

The practice of lectio divina is currently very popular among Catholics and Gnostics, and is gaining acceptance as an integral part of the devotional practices of the Emerging Church. Pope Benedict XVI said in a 2005 speech, “I would like in particular to recall and recommend the ancient tradition of lectio divina: the diligent reading of Sacred Scripture accompanied by prayer brings about that intimate dialogue in which the person reading hears God who is speaking, and in praying, responds to him with trusting openness of heart.” Lectio is also said to be adaptable for people of other faiths in reading their scripture—whether that be the Bhagavad Gita, the Torah, or the Koran. Non-Christians may simply make suitable modifications of the method to accommodate secular traditions. Further, the four principles of lectio divina can also be adapted to the four Jungian psychological principles of sensing, thinking, intuiting, and feeling.

The actual practice of lectio divina begins with a time of relaxation, making oneself comfortable and clearing the mind of mundane thoughts and cares. Some lectio practitioners find it helpful to concentrate by beginning with deep, cleansing breaths and repeating a chosen phrase or word several times to help free the mind.


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#18 Candice

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 08:25 PM

The practice of lectio divina is currently very popular among Catholics and Gnostics, and is gaining acceptance as an integral part of the devotional practices of the Emerging Church. Pope Benedict XVI said in a 2005 speech, “I would like in particular to recall and recommend the ancient tradition of lectio divina: the diligent reading of Sacred Scripture accompanied by prayer brings about that intimate dialogue in which the person reading hears God who is speaking, and in praying, responds to him with trusting openness of heart.”

Now, if I only read this quote by the pope, I don't know that I would have pause for concern. However, there's much under the surface. Supposedly, David Jeremiah and John MacArthur are semi endorsing this.

I wonder, and am not accusing , if this practice was done by Tozer who, reportedly, prayed for several hours at a time. This would challenge me past a couple of hours not including reading scripture. If one were in an altered state....? Tozer quoted mystics admirably.

This makes me realize that in The Father alone may I trust my soul and spirit.
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#19 chipped china

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 11:32 PM

Amen to that Candice!



#20 Shaun DuFault

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:51 PM

Shaun, I guess the person who said that the contemplative prayer was not for them but might be OK for others...was me. Please allow me to explain what I meant to say there. I know what I call worship for myself and it is a daily thing for me, but has nothing at all to do with this contmplative, meditative, centering prayer as descfribed above. The Lord tells us what He considers worship and what emphasis He places on obedience to His specifications in that reguard. I certainly am no prophet and I cannot speak for the Lord in all these matters....I just speak for myself and my relationship with my God. Others may not worship exactly as I worship, so I try not to be too judgemental about how another worships. I do not agree with many worship styles that I see today, but I try my best not to be judgemental, if possible. There was a time that I didn`t worship as I should have and God in His grace and longsuffering helped me to work all of it out....I praise Him for it. Yes, this stuff is dangerous and maybe I should be more agressive about it, but I just want to be very careful when approaching people about their personal worship of God.

Your brother in Christ

Charlie

Charlie,

 

Thank you for the clarification and sorry for the long delay in response.  I do not get to this site as often as I once did.  I would think that though we may have some difference in the how of worship, we would all be in agreement on the principles of worship., 

 

Thanks again.


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