23 replies to this topic

[meletao]

I am very interested in the C&MA's leadership response to this topic. I have spent much time in the last five years researching and dealing with such topics as my family spent many years in the Pentecostal movement.

It is my opinion that IHOP is at least dangerous, if not cultic. Mike Bickle holds the same theological foundation as other false prophets: Rick Joyner, Bob Jones, John Arnott, and Paul Cain. There are others and they all work together. There are many articles and testimonies about IHOP on the internet.

I encourage the staff to research this. Good places to start are carm.org and equip.org. Another revealing article is http://deceptionfree...ag/elijah-list/ Research the 'Elijah List' and 'End Time Prophets' and there connection to IHOP. The same group was involved in the Toronto Outpouring, the Pensacola Outpouring, and theTodd Bentley Lakeland Outpouring. Gold dust and uncontrolled movement are NOT unusual for this group. This can be seen with simple Google research.

Again, I look forward to the leadership's response on this. I am currently not a C&MA member but have been attending a C&MA church for the last six months. I am very curious where the C&MA falls on the Kansas City Prophets and their movement.

As our youth are getting involved in these movements, clear leadership on this will be essential as the movements are very enticing.

[iaveteran]

Thank you for your response. Love the CARM website. I was involved in early stages of KC Fellowship in the 80's. I refused as a Pastor to get involved. It cost me everything, marriage, church and ministry. This movement prey's on our youth. That is what concerns me. They make themselves unaccountable to anyone. They claim extra biblical revelations.



Everything is always new this and that. They claim as an average an 65% prophecy rate, some more mature 85-95%. That statement by itself should disqualify them according to scripture. They claim just like Islam that until the earth systems are overthrown and replaced by them, Jesus cannot return.



This entire movement started on false prophecy, and it continues today. I did not fit their standard, because I am convicted that scripture trumps everything, period. Even my ex-wife claims to have (sex) an quote "Song of Solomon" experience with Jesus.



All of this reminds me of Apostle Paul's warning to the elders in Ephesus.

Ac 20:27-38

"For I adid not shrink from declaring to you the whole bpurpose of God. 28"Be on guard for yourselves and for all athe flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you 1overseers, to shepherd bthe church of God which cHe 2purchased 3with His own blood. 29"I know that after my departure asavage wolves will come in among you, not sparing bthe flock; 30and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away athe disciples after them. 31"Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of athree years I did not cease to admonish each one bwith tears. 32"And now I acommend you to God and to bthe word of His grace, which is able to cbuild you up and to give you dthe inheritance among all those who are sanctified. 33"aI have coveted no one's silver or gold or clothes. 34"You yourselves know that athese hands ministered to my own needs and to the bmen who were with me. 35"In everything I showed you that by working hard in this manner you must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He Himself said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'" NASU



Jesus said in the last day's Mt 24:23-26 Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the 1Christ,' or '2There He is,' do not believe him. 24"For false Christs and afalse prophets will arise and will 1show great 2bsigns and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even cthe 3elect. 25"Behold, I have told you in advance. 26" NASU

Apostle Peter said,2Pe 2:1-3 But afalse prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be bfalse teachers camong you, who will dsecretly introduce edestructive heresies, even fdenying the gMaster who hbought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2Many will follow their asensuality, and because of them bthe way of the truth will be cmaligned; 3and in their agreed they will bexploit you with cfalse words; dtheir judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. NASU



Apostle John: 1Jn 4:1-4 Beloved, do not believe every bspirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because cmany false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you know the Spirit of God: aevery spirit that bconfesses that cJesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3and every spirit that adoes not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the bantichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and cnow it is already in the world. 4NASU



Everyone claims fantastic miracles, ( I do believe in miracles), the greatest is salvation.



Jesus said this about sign seekers. "Mt 16:3 "aAn evil and adulterous generation seeks after a 1sign; NASU The church focus should be on presenting the Gospel message. The church doesn't need a bunch of programs just plain Biblical exegesis'.



Anyway thanks again went off on tangent. This still is close to home having that movement in our church all weekend. "Impact World Tour" YWAM/IHOP will be coming to your city next, it's already in ours and my local CMA Church.

[Dan Wetzel]

I tried to respond a little earlier but for some reason my psting failed. Perhaps it was because I was ill an not thinking clearly. At any rate, although it seems the discussion has died down, I did want to respond briefly to the concerns expressed in the previous postings.

In short, the C&MA is not a part of the Word of Faith Movement. The movement misunderstands both the nature of God's Word and the true nature of faith as defined and demonstrated by the Word of God. This is not of course to suggest that everything said by those who adhere to the Word of Faith Move4ment is wrong. But it is to suggest that a great deal of descretion is in order. there can be no doubt that many people within the C&MA have been influenced by the Word of Faith Movement. It would be unusual if that were not the case since it has received a great deal of attention in the evangelical world as a whole. If you have concerns about what is being taught in the local church the first step is to speak to your pastor and elders. Having done that, you may also have the perrogative of speaking to your district superintendent. I am less familiar with the positions of the InternationaL House of Prayer so I am not able to comment regarding its theological positions. However, I can reaffirm that the C&MA Statement of Faith represents our best understanding of Scripture on key issues of evangelical faith.

[Julie Daube]

Dan, thank you for responding to the concerns expressed in some of the posts here. I am sorry that you have been ill and appreciate your going to the trouble of posting a response even when you haven't felt at your best.

Blessings to you,
Julie