God! How could you????
#1
Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:42 PM
Jesus, I know you see my heart, you know my mind. Thank you for your understanding. Please come back soon and stop this suffering.
#2
Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:55 AM
In times like these it is easy to blame God and curse Him for letting things like this happen. But you just have to remember that it isn't His will that pain and suffering like this happen. He doesn't cause it and doesn't want it. We live in a fallen world and because of that, there is sin and there is death. Could God have prevented this or healed this precious baby? Yes, probably. But when we play the "What if" game like that, all we are doing is trying to assign blame for the hurt we are feeling. It proves nothing and helps even less. In times like this, it is better to set your focus on the blessings that He gives in the midst of the storm. Yes Kirra died, but at least my niece had those few precious days to remember her by. And though she will have to mourn the death of a daughter, she was also blessed with a son.
God knows that it isn't always enough to have His invisible hand in our circumstances. Knowing this, He give us tangible blessings to keep us going in the midst of the trials and the pain. He doesn't want us to be dependent on tangible, because it will not always be there. Plus the tangible can take our focus off of God, causing us to trust and need the tangible instead of Him. But we also need to see God's blessings for what they are...Blessings. Those blessings will quite often satisfy the fleshly nature. They can giving us comfort and be a respite in the midst of the storm. Sometimes when we get overwhelmed by our trials and pain we will loose track of God. I believe quite often God will give us a blessing in the midst of the storm, to help us to take our eyes off of our circumstances so that we are better equipped to set our focus back on Him.
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#3
Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:53 AM
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#4
Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:52 AM
Our Good Father understands our grief and gives us a season for it. Within His grace He probably also understands when we shake our fists at Him in rebuke because He knows what we do not. Thus it’s okay to grieve and wonder why such devastation has been laid on us especially when we perceive we don’t deserve it.
But what God knows, that we miss, is that living here in this sin laden world and how our blessings ebb and flow, has nothing to do with what we deserve. For His people, there is always a much more important issue in play that we cannot see. It isn't punishment, it isn't God being capricious or cold. It is our condition, our mandate. We’ve been given the task of enduring, no matter what.
(Matthew 24:12) And because iniquity shall be multiplied, the love of the many shall wax cold. (24:13) But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved. (24:14) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.
In the end we must choose how we are going to endure, which impacts our daily walk and whether or not we represent Him well or poorly. We can be angry because we are in tribulation or we can accept that we have not been singled out for tribulation and pray for strength and wisdom in order to overcome it. Pain and suffering is a reality in the here and now and I am convinced it is going to get much worse before it gets better. But be comforted that Jesus won the war against evil, we are now in the testing fields of faith. Do we allow our faith to grow or sit status quo? To grow we must look farther out than our personal boundaries.
Be an overcomer, endure with grace. We need to pray for each other for the strength to overcome the world because the world is closing in. Satan is prowling to see who he can devour and turn away from faith.
For Christ,
Meema
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#5
Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:58 AM
Last Summer, on my son`s wedding day, I awoke to find my beloved wife of 40 years dead in our bathroom. No sickness, no symptoms, and absolutely no warning. The feelings of loss, hopelessness, confusion, lonliness, etc,etc. All the questions you askes and more.... Answers are just not there, are they? Why do these terrible things happen? Well, I thought at one time I needed to know and understand all of it, but now, a little over a year later, I am at peace about it. God didn`t "take" my Fran or your brother-in-law, but He did allow it. Can I assume that your brother-in-law was a child of God with a relationship with Him? If so, do not grieve for him....he is very happy where he is and would not want to return. The remaining family will go through a tough time because the loss is a huge one and simply will be felt.
I think the main thing here is the response of you and your family, and how all of you handle this loss. It`s OK to question all of this. It`s OK to feel a profound loss. We christians know, however, that God IS in control and yes, all this has a meaning. I won`t try and tell you that I have found the answers and have some special revelation on these matters...I don`t. What I do have however, is knowledge that God knows who I am, has known me since before time began, and knows that I hurt, cares that I hurt, and has not abandoned me in this situation. When we accept the fact that Jesus died for us and lives within us, how could we ever think He is not right here with us? The responses to such events(as I have observed) seem to fall into 2 categories 1. Get angry with God and turn away from Him. Oh my, this can`t work at all. 2. Pray for the Father to send His comforter, send peace, send help for the hurt. Then,in time, look for God within this situation. If we are christians He IS there and will take evrey step of this journey with you.
Praise God, I was a christian with a relationship with the Father when Fran died, otherwise things probably wouldn`t have turned out well at all. It is not easy to carry on but Father and Holy Spirit will take you by the hand, if allowed, because He sees Jesus in us when we look to Him for help in these times. Your help and comfort may be different than what I was given, and that is OK....we are all different. I was driven, yes DRIVEN, back to the word and spent hours and hours reading the bible with the help of Holy Spirit. I began finding things I never realized were there. Oh I knew the scriptures, but they all seemed new and exciting, with truth and words for me just pouring out! My relationship with God has become much more personal and rewarding for me since that awful morning, and I praise God for His unending love and faithfullness. I do not think Fran died just so I would study the bible more, although she would have liked for me to have spent more time in the Word( I can still remember her gentle urging over the past 30 years), but the event did give me an urgency and earnestness to seek God`s will for me to a degree I cannot ever explain. The joy of seeking and finding, the joy of nurturing this relationship, the joy of knowing the Father more and more, is so uplifing to my spirit that I can`t even begin to explain what has happened. From that terrible morning`s event to overwhelming joy, peace, more knowledge of my Father in heaven, oh what a time it has been! From sitting in the dark with sadness to waking each morning with my Father`s love all over me!
A place to start? For me it was Psalms 28: 6-9. Suggestion...Take this one hour at a time, then 1 day at a time...make no significant financial decisions for 1 year....make no big decisions for the same period of time, seek help if it is needed......pray and believe God`s love for you is real and you are important to Him. Read Romans 8....then read it again...pray about it, then read it again.....keep reading it until you start to think that that chapter was written just for you.....it was.
May God bless you and your family as all of you walk through this valley....His rod and His staff WILL comfort all of you
Charlie
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#6
Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:57 AM
I hope you won't find my words to be trite, if they sound trite then please don't receive them, for they have missed the mark. However, I hope if I share something, it might help.
I faced a loss recently, and as a result, I saw God differently. Indeed, each thing that happened later (thunderstorms etc) seemed to be God's hand against me. Did He hate me? However, anger is part of the grieving process. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. http://grief.com/the...tages-of-grief/ But, I had to let go of the anger to find the real God again.
Here's how God led me to do that: I had to let go of this world. I had to surrender my need to find peace and happiness here. This took stepping back and looking at life on earth differently--I had to see that history and life's tragedies were part of a picture that I hadn't been able to see.
It's interesting how God did this for me. First he demonstrated through people on this board the relationship I had with Him before I became angry. Then He showed me Matthew 24:7 "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom." That doesn't seem like much at first glance. However when we look at history as a whole, we can see that Jesus was looking at entire centuries when He spoke that truth. You see for centuries the world was filled with nation states. The nation states warred against one another. Then the nation states became ruled more tightly and formed kingdoms. This is fairly recent. So, you see when we look at things through God's eyes, our tragedies are easier to understand. This happens because we see that God sees one major epic event--the lost world, the intervention through Jesus, and then this broad event that takes place across the world stage. Thus, we have to sever ourselves from living under the world's system to see what God is really doing.
Now we are in the final segment. The last part of Jesus' words are coming true, and soon He will appear in the heavens. Then history will end. The final result will be an epic saga of many men, wars and tragedies with the end result that some found God and others rejected Him. It is all much bigger than we can realize. It is actually a war that takes place between tremendous forces of evil that battle God. As dwellers on earth, we are engaged in warfare ... we die, we face disease, but we fight on in the hopes that we can rescue the lost from Satan's grasp. The fallen who are in Christ go to heaven and sit with God until all is fulfilled. None are lost. All of us will face this loss because all of us have to walk through death. God also doesn't always intervene in these individual cases because getting safely to heaven, and achieving life's greatest purpose is His aim.
I finally let go of my anger and found peace. You and your family have to go through the grieving process in order to heal. I pray that the cloudiness will lift soon and that you will once again lean your head against Your Father's chest and rest. He loves us so much. The cross proves this. Plus the Lord is coming soon, and all those who have been separated will be reunited.
Love and blessings,
Lori
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#7
Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:18 AM
I will pray for you:
Dear Father in Heavey, you love Betsy, her family and her passed bother-in-law. LORD, please bless them today, comfort them in their grief, pain, loss and numbness. Let each of those who were near to her brother-in-law have a touch of Your hand today and in the weeks and months and years to come. Follow them closely with your angels, give them moments of miracles to see Your love for them. Let them know you are true, faithful and righteous and gracious and merciful despite their unreliable feelings. Let them express to you the pain in their hearts and abide in You moment to moment, not just during this trial, but always.
Betsy,
As you can see, lots of people here can identify with the suffering. We are to share in Christ's sufferings. All these stories posted may not give you comfort. I've been there too with the loss of my brother and mother at a very young age, a husband after five months' marriage, and much more. But, it really is just "counting it all joy" as James said in his opening verses of James chapter 1. Sometimes, as Martin Luther said, I'd like to "toss old Jimmy into the fire". It's ok to feel what you feel. God knew you'd feel it before time began. It's more than we can know, understand or even perceive.
One year after a death is like anniversary time for everyone. More to come. Love your family.
Blessings sister. My heart hurts for you.
Candice
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#8
Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:38 AM
And yes Cal was a deep believer in Christ. He told me a couple months before he died that he'd just keep on doing the Lord's work and when it was time the Lord would take him home. And that's just what happened. He was working the week before he died and Jesus came to get him as his family sat at his bedside. Cal was the head of World Relief in Seattle. There were 500 people at his memorial every ethnicity could could imagine. People sang hymns in different languages. Through Christ he helped many people escape persecution and having no home.
It was a celebration of what God can accomplish if we live in Him.
Charlie, your healing with Fran's death gave me hope that my sister will overcome her deepest pain too. I guess that's where the anger was coming from.
Annie my sister has always had a heart for God and is somewhat naive to tragedy. She mostly lived in God's will. I was the black sheep, the wild child so I've been disciplined every which way but loose, thank God. I learned through my years how to rely on Him and have never felt this world was my real home. Cal and Annie's boy were her world. Yes, she knows the Lord well but this will bring her truly to be the bride of Christ. Another step of coming out of the world. And perhaps coming to the realization that I can't make my sister all better it will teach me to shut my mouth and listen. Just Be still and know I am God.
And Laurie I've read the book that explains the stages of grief. That's a must read for everyone. And I'm sorry about your loss recently.
I do have an understanding about coming out of this world. In fact last night I was reading something about learning to distinguish what is Ok to love of this world. All the things God created. It's the things man/Satan have created that are snares to be avoided. BTW Laurie since you mentioned Walid Shoebat in an earlier post I've listened to about 6 hours of his videos. Very interesting especially since the world has attacked him so harshly. I'll like to talk more about him.
I will take to heart all you have written. God Bless you my brothers and sisters.
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#9
Posted 23 November 2012 - 04:41 AM
You have touched my heart so much since I have been coming to this board. I love your spirit, and I identify so much with what you have to say. I am so sad that you're hurting. I am sad for your sister. I've been praying for you. I know God will speak to you, and give you wisdom beyond what we can offer. I'll be praying.
About Walid Shoebat, yes, he offers some pretty interesting perspectives! I've been listening to people lately that I wouldn't normally listen to ... prophets for example. You really have to try to use discernment to see who is really hearing the heart of God. But I do think we're heading into times of tribulation. God pulled me out of the world (and even my perspective as an American) because inside is a dark tornadic storm. Everything is black and it's hard to feel God's heart. Inside that storm if feels like God is angry and forboding. Outside and apart from everything I still find His sweetness. The early apostles lived in dark times ... the apostle John talked about Jesus being a light in darkness. Paul said tribulation and persecution can't separate us from His love. We are in a similar time. They knew they were loved and they had to assure other Christians that God still loved them in the midst of the persecution. God had to do the same with me. I had to pull back and see things as times of the end unfolding. Now I have some anticipation about seeing Jesus return. I believe it will happen soon (how soon, I don't know).
Hugs and blessings,
Lori
P.S. Yes God can handle your anger and your questions! He knows you better, and loves you more than anyone!
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#10
Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:04 AM
The men who ran the place are all strong Christians. Most of them are recovered addicts and alcoholics. Everyday they would tell us about how they put their total trust in God and He delivered them from the sin sickness off addiction.
At that time, I was wearing my feelings on my sleeve and i felt physically as horrible as a man can feel and still be breathing. Everyday, after the lunch meal, they would let us go into the TV room where one of the news channels played constantly. The TV would show the horrific aftermath of Katrina and the horrible stories that accompanied it: such as babies floating around in the alligator and cottonmouth snake infested waters. About families trapped, by rising floodwater, in their very top of the attic of their house, many with no way to escape death by drowning and by the horrid heat that was trapped in the attics, Many folks were too old to knock a hole in the roof so that they could escape to the the shingled part of their roof and hopefully await the rescue by helicoptered National Guardsmen and women.
During this time, the men at the treatment center were constantly telling us that TRUST IN GOD would be the answer OUT of our horrid addictions. But I would see those people floating in the flood water (while watching TV) many of which where elderly and yound children and I would ask myself: God wouldn't save THOSE people, many obviously under the age of accountability.......WHY WOULD HE TAKE A MOMENT TO HELP MY SORRY, NO GOOD, hind end. So then, I was faced with the dilemma of "Is there REALLY a God? and why does he let infants and old people suffer such an agonizing death? And it just didn't make sense and it was a major hurdle to cross as I sought my personal freedom. The solution: I decided that to continue on my present path meant certain death and ultimately, damnation (if the Bible happened to be true). So I decided that I was just not in the shape to handle the huge question of "why do good people suffer" and that from thenceforth I would listen to those Godly men at the treatment center. And I would follow their instruction. And I would put the question of "Why good people suffer" on a shelf and deal with it later.
I gradually came to believe that God would do for me what i could NOT do for myself. And that the new Testament was a message of God wanting us sinners to be reconciled to Him. That the plan of redemption was ALL HIS idea. I was able to see that as: HE WANTS ME!!!!! so, I want Him. Chipped China, I felt compelled to share that with you this morning even though it does not do much to answer your questions. But believe me, there were times in my life when I asked God the same things and in a loud tone. Even since I have been saved. My prayers have been with and for you and your sister and family.
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#11
Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:19 AM
I'm not sure I am conveying properly what is in my mind, but what I'm trying to say is that God couldn't change the rules before or after Christ's crucifixion because that would have prevented Him from purchasing our redemption. However, it'll be over soon (thank goodness), and the devil will be thrown into the lake of fire and suffering will end forever.
Peace and blessings,
Lori
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#12
Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:56 PM
Lori,Even after this, God couldn't change the rules because it would have negated what Jesus did. For instance, if God immediately changed the dynamics of everything, would the redemption Jesus bought count any more? No, it would have been cheapened and no one else would have been able to get saved.
I read what you're thoughts are here and this is very true to my ears. Even if the LORD had taken away suffering, as was the original condition of the Garden of Eden, man's sinful nature would just cause more misery again. The sin nature isn't eliminated; it's covered in Christ.
Thank GOD everyone here has suffered!
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#13
Posted 23 November 2012 - 03:36 PM
Glad you see what I was trying to say! Exactly, we brought sin into the world in the Garden of Eden. God had a choice, enter our sin-filled world and overcome it for us, or wipe us all out. He chose to enter, live it, die from it, and redeem us. Now we are still in it, but redeemed while we're here. We minister to others as Jesus' representatives and we suffer as He did. But, God can't wipe out all of sin's consequences. Redemption was the only way. Likewise after He redeemed those who chose Him, He can't change the existing dynamic. People are what they are ... sinners until they choose Christ. Satan is on the loose and continues to give people a choice. God does heal at times, but they are still temporary measures. We are all dying. However, I think many of us will be alive when Jesus returns.
Blessings,
Lori
#14
Posted 23 November 2012 - 07:28 PM
As for why bad things happen to good people and why there is so much ugly suffering; I suppose I get it about as well as most believers. It's just sometimes I need to whine and get counsel from other believers. God created us to love and adore Him. If we knew for a fact that He is real then we wouldn't need faith to believe and our love and honor wouldn't be pure or freely given. 4 Love is patient,(I) love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.(J) 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking,(K) it is not easily angered,(L) it keeps no record of wrongs.(M) 6 Love does not delight in evil(N) but rejoices with the truth.(O) 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love is not self seeking. This one is especially hard for me to practice. We are born self seekers, how would mom know we were hungry or dirty. We had to be taught not to be jealous, selfish or impatient. God gave us a lot to work on down here. He gave us these trials and obstacles so we would finally just give up and give it all to Him. I'm finally learning that the good in me is Him. Pride has no place in my accomplishments it's all a supernatural gift from God.
Thanks for all the edification you all gave. I count it as love offerings and it's amazing how much better I feel. God is in control and has us all in His Hands. To you Lord the Glory!! Come and get us soon... I mean when ever you are ready..
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#15
Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:53 AM
You thoughts about love ring so true. We are supposed to love because He first loved us. As long as satan is prince of this world we will have suffering and pain. That won`t change, but our response to it should be different than unbelievers. I still struggle with pain, sadness, and hurt on occasion but only for a passing instant. Wouldn`t it be nice if the Father said.."Look down there at China during all this mess created by satan, she is my child and just look at how she handles the mess so well. She uses love to overcome and look how she depends upon Me to carry the burden." When a loved one passes away it is never easy for us who remain, but just think of the joy, glory, majesty, and fulfillment of your brother-in-law, a child of God, who is now in the very presence of the King of Kings, Lord of Lords, the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit!!! Isn`t that where we all want to be? Well, he made it! Praise God, he has recieved his reward for a job well done, and will continue to recieve the reward for eternity. I didn`t know Cal, but oh how I am so happy for him.
I grieve with all of you in his family for your loss of his company but his love for family is not gone and your love for Cal is not gone either. There is a reunion coming in the near future....and what a joyous time it will be!!
Yours in Christ
Charlie
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#16
Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:55 PM
Today, my dad is happily married again - through God's grace, he found love for the third time. He and my stepmom have a rich, full life raising her teenage granddaughter, whom they adopted out of an abusive situation. About two years ago, this young woman received Jesus as her Savior and was baptized. I am forever grateful that God used my dad to demonstrate the father heart of God to this hurting, wounded child.
Looking back at everything my dad suffered, I can see that God had a purpose in it, even though that wasn't obvious at the time. Sometimes when things don't make any sense from a human, earthly perspective, God is planning something way bigger than we could ever imagine. We just have to hold onto Him and never, ever let go.
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#17
Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:14 PM
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#18
Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:20 AM
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#19
Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:02 AM
First I want to say how sorry I am about your brother. It must be very difficult if you aren't able to say all your goodbyes.
I do believe you were Spirit led to read this post and it was truly a blessing to me. I will tell Annie about your writing, I know it will give her comfort.
I also think this forum has a real place in the Church. Sometimes we can more easily say how we really feel in writing. Much of the bible was communicating through letters to the churches, so why not us?
Blessing to you and I hope to hear more of your thoughts glorifying our Lord and Comforter. Betsy
#20
Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:02 PM
I am very sorry to hear about the sudden loss of your brother. Losses of close family hit us hard and the blow is somewhat numbing for a while, then all the feelings stated above rush in. From your post I can tell that you know the Lord and depend upon Him. Your Lord is with you and He will walk through this with you....all you need to do is ask. Yes the hurt is there, yes moving on is difficult, but with the Lord`s help the pain eases and before long you will start to remember things that happened in the past between you and your brother...and smile. That was the point(for me) that let me know healing was happening. It does take a while, but it does come. God has not and will not desert you in this time of need . He is closer than your next breath.
May God bless you and your family as you walk through this valley.
In Christ,
Charlie
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