Seeker Sensitive - Purpose Driven
#21
Posted 09 November 2012 - 08:04 AM
I really appreciate your comments regarding the need for Christians to walk rightly according to mandates given to us by Scripture. However, I disagree with the premise that we have to be "in church" to show our obedience. Early Christians were encouraged by Paul to assemble together despite threats of persecution that they might encourage and edify one another in the faith.
However, when the Romans under Constantine combined church and state, they changed things. Indeed, they claimed to have chief authority in matters pertaining to salvation. What they in fact did, was replace God's authority with their own. This was the whole fight that took place during the Reformation. Luther claimed that Scripture was man's chief authority, while the church claimed they had chief authority since they had decided what would be placed in the canon (Scriptures). Luther countered that Jesus gave Scripture its authority.
The Reformers argued this point well, and the Protestant churches we see in America were birthed through the Reformers. They never did take the church all the way back to its roots however. Indeed, the early church was rooted in Judaism, and realized that Jesus was the fulfillment of it. What developed later was quite different.
I say all of this because there are many who are not satisfied with what Luther birthed ... they are looking to take it a bit further. They desire the intimacy of God and the intimacy of their brethren. Certainly there is nothing wrong with leaving the institutional types of settings that are really only one step removed from Catholicism. That doesn't mean that sin is condoned. That is a separate issue entirely.
I think we are in a time of transition. Christians are seeking their roots. Some will err, and others will find refreshing communities of believers. When the latter happens, it's a good thing. Thus, as long as a Christian is submitted fully to God and His Word, I think we should be given the freedom to congregate as we choose.
Blessings,
Lori
- Kevin Blankenship and chipped china like this
#22
Posted 09 November 2012 - 11:12 PM
Many use this scripture today to force feed institutionalized Christianity down our throats and this not not wholly unlike the Jewish believers trying to force the gentile believers to be circumcised.
- Lori Smith and chipped china like this
#23
Posted 23 November 2012 - 08:04 AM
My struggle with the 'seeker sensitive' church is the watering down or removing valuable pieces of the Christian faith so that folks will 'like Jesus'. It would appear as though this is not the message of reconciliation and sanctification (transformation) but simply drawing a crowd and filling seats. When we fail to preach the gospel, I am not sure ministry is really life-changing. We simply end up trying to keep 'the customer' happy. We lose our focus. Hence, what becomes the focus of the church? The glory of God or keeping the customer? If the focus becomes 'the seeker', then God is not glorified. God is the focus. The mission is then our response to our encounter with God - to make disciples - to be ministers of reconciliation... on God's terms, not our own.
More than anything, I believe it's the transformed life of a person who's had an encounter with God and the love of the body of believers that are the best testimony to the gospel. Not the methods of man's design, but the working of the Holy Spirit in the heart of man. In our church, we have seen God by His Holy Spirit begin to transform the lives of people. Not with a special 'program(s)' or modern method(s), but as we allow the Holy Spirit to transform us (surrender control)... the effects impact those around us and we have seen growth. Folks will see the grace of God in us as we not only walk in His grace, but reflect it to those who desperately need it around us. When the body of Christ lives out life in God's grace, it will make a HUGE impact on others.
I do believe that it is not just the 'seeker' movements that can get off focus, but the other 'sides' of the church as well - legalism & liberalism. Both lose focus on the the grace of God and the ministry of reconciliation. Churches who focus on legalism think that control of people and their behavior is the key to Christianity. The problem? We are left trying to 'fix' ourselves with our own efforts. Liberalism, on the other hand, has stopped preaching the theology of Christianity (the gospel) and focused on good works and not the power of transformation. Both are as bad as some 'seeker sensitive' settings. I would challenge folks to get back to the teachings of Christ and the early church. We are so far removed from that, that no wonder the message of the Church is not transforming lives.
Examine 2 Corinthians 5 on reconciliation and our response to it. Powerful stuff.
- Lori Smith, Charles Miles and chipped china like this
#24
Posted 23 November 2012 - 08:56 AM
That's spot on! Awesome words, and a hearty amen to everything you wrote.
#25
Posted 23 November 2012 - 10:19 AM
It has been a while since we communicated last- I pray that you are well and blessed as you pursue the things of Christ.
I just wanted to commend you for your comments with regard to the "seeker sensitive" issue. As Lori said, I think they are spot on.
Blessings!
Mark Landon
#26
Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:20 PM
Blessings,
Brian
- chipped china likes this
#27
Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:36 PM
#28
Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:38 PM
Ugh! Wrong!
#29
Posted 23 November 2012 - 03:01 PM
- Lori Smith and chipped china like this
#30
Posted 23 November 2012 - 08:38 PM
Thanks for your input. I appreciate being able to chat with a pastor about it because you come from a specific perspective.
We've asked if we can serve in our current church. I felt led to start a "Griefshare" group, but was told "no" you can't serve in this church if you're not a member. They go through a specific membership where you're literally voted in to the church. We just are not led to follow that legalism. We go to church, and we've introduced ourselves to others for three years over and over again. People go in, sit and listen and leave as fast as they can. It is dead. We attend Sunday school hoping to get more intimate fellowship....same thing. We're not judging or condemning; I think it's the other way around. If you're not from this town, you're a foreigner no matter what church you go to. Except one tiny Calvary Chapel of 12 people, 8 of which are over 65 years. This just doesn't work for our family. The focus is on world events, preparing shelters, etc. This is such a rural area without choices that we just believe it's ok to stay home at this point.
We don't just want to go and get fed, but to exercise, but this seems to be the pattern here .... completely seeker sensitive or just dead.
Becoming without hope of anything happening here.
Pray
- chipped china likes this
#31
Posted 24 November 2012 - 07:52 AM
Our church is 125 years old. One of the oldest CMA churches in the country. 3+ years ago our church burned to the ground. To be honest, a 'make or break' scenario. The morning after the fire, one 89 year old member said it well - "I wonder what God is doing now?" A clear perspective that needed to be voiced. After all the 'things of the past' (possessions and settings) were gone, there were 2 choices: Ask what the 89 year old asked or live in the past - mind and soul. Praise God, in time, He has 'began a good work in us'. What I found is sometimes it takes one person who God is transforming, to be used of Him. Not taking all the credit myself, but I am humbled to see how God used the work He was doing in me to stir something in the heart of others. Slowly but surely, as I yielded to Him, I lived out more clearly the grace received from Him. Has it been easy? No. Did I have a master plan devised to attempt this? No. I have just walked in a way to reflect the savior... as He leads.
Without going into the whole story, our church was in serious decline - divided in personal preferences, etc. Legalism was a part of the scene for years. We had a great missions heart and God used us, but 'old age' and inward turmoil was taking it's toll. Now a few years later, God has begun a new work! The heart of the church is changing! God is drawing people to Himself and we are increasing - the first time in years! We have no '2-5-10 master plan', as the "church growth gurus" have encouraged. We have just decided we are to make disciples and many of us are just personally allowing transformation to occur in our lives. God is doing a work!
Blessings... pray for how God wants to use you to be apart of the beginnings of something new!
- Charles Miles likes this
#32
Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:27 PM
As one of our older saints put it early this morning..."When we stop talking and teaching Jesus, we just start wasting our time". I wanted to stand up and cheer! Mabe we can talk about HOW we talk about Jesus and HOW we show the love of God through Jesus, but we should never stop doing that every day.
In Christ`s love,
Charlie
- Lori Smith likes this
#33
Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:48 PM
#34
Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:37 AM
My husband and I have recently left an Alliance Church.
So where did you end up?
#35
Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:36 PM