8 replies to this topic

[Kevin Blankenship]

We are social people. We are meant to socilaize. The Christian does too. (In the First book of Corinthians Paul asks : can the foot say to the hand: I nave no need of Thee?" (I severely paraphrased and may have mis-quoted body parts) But we get the idea. We work AS A UNIT. Please someone......throw me the proverbial bone here: How can each one of us benefit the other with our peculiar giftings when the Pastor wants to do (control) it all!!!!????? This is noty a blanket statement condemning all pastors. But it seems to be status-quo here in my little town. In times past I have been on some desperate quest for Christian fellowship. I've been tp nearly all the churches in this small town and county. (There a WAY over 100 churches of various denominations here) And they are ALL so cliquish,.....and they will stare at you if you are a visitor. I have a poor attitude about the churches here. One reason that I filled my large bookcase with the Christian Classics. When it's FEEDING TIME for this old boy....I know where Truth it to be found, ultimately.......Jesus, God's Word. Secondly, the gifted Christian authors who are able to lay out a teaching in understandable form. I RELY GREATLY on the old Saints who are long gone but whose teachings live on in their books.
But if the Body of Christ on the earth today is the church (though not every building that has the letters: C-H-U-R-C-H is an actual church of Christ. (not the denomination). I am seeking the true representative of Christ's Body in my town.
If I go the Full Gospel route, I am going to hear Speaking in Tongues used and misused with nary an interpreter present to interpret what is being said that all may have understanding. It's as if the stipulation in First Corinthians about having an interpreter present has been totally and roundly ignored and for no good reason!!!! During the service, they will brag that they are an "ON FIRE" church while the Baptist church down the street (who does NOT believe in the second work of Grace: Baptism in the Spirit) is the FROZEN CHOSEN. And this should NEVER BE!!!!! Christ prayed that we all may be ONE even as the Father and Christ are ONE. The church that makes the boast that IT IS the best choice for an ON FIRE church is, in my opinion, practicing a horrible form of Spiritual Pride. And Pride cometh before a fall. And sure enough you'll go by a church like i mentioned above, whose parking lot used to be full on Sunday morn, and there will be 5 cars there. Hangers on.
Friends, Brothers and Sisters in Christ: WHERE are the Churches that insist on preaching the Truth and are NOT concerned with NUMBERS??? The ones where the old hymns are still sang (and I;ll concede and be okay with a few of the newer choruses as long as they are scriptural)
But what is in vogue in the churches in my are these days is this: Try to sound like the preachers on TBN or INSP Television networks. This is where many of the local preachers are receiving their training. And the Prosperity Gospel is still being proclaimed and accepted as truth in many churches here. And NOT ONLY the so called Full Gospel churches.
A Posthumous mentor of mine, David Wilkerson, pulled out of a mainline denomination because of their acceptance and proclamation of that wicked doctrine of demons....the gospel of Prosperity.
Well having said that....there is a new church that has sprung on the scene within the last year in my town. New Creations Fellowship. I am going to try them out Sunday morning at 11 am Central time. And if there is a bunch of gathering around the alter and everyone "Praying in Tongues" after the preaching.....I will hop back out, as quick as I hopped into this church. More traditional: "well...it's what the people want....they want a good, on-fire, alter service" whether the practice is based in scripture or not. People gauge whether a church is GOOD and ON FIRE by how FIRED UP the alter service is!!!! I have seen alter services, at other churches, where veryone was admonished by the pastor to "Everyone start praying loudly in your prayer language!!!! Right now!!!! Everyone who has a prayer language, USE IT NOW!!!" and I would see little toddler children putting their little hands over their ears to block out the confusing, and scary-sounding ruckus. Would the Holy Spirit manifest Himself in a way that would frighten little children???? I don't think so. But the FLESH would....without a second thought. Enough for now. Back to the question: What are the earmarks of a good Gospel Church in this age in which we live??? I want to be part of one.

[Candice]

Hi Kevin,
First of all Brother, I feel for you. I live in a very rural area of northern Wyoming and can say that the situation with the "churches" here is about duplicate to yours.

As a friend of mine said recently upon my making some of the same complaints to her: "Forget it, the church is over". My friend worked for David Wilkerson at Times Square Church in NYC years ago. Even though I love David Wilkerson's teachings, today, that church is far from perfect. But, the Holy Spirit is there. As Tozer said: “If the Holy Spirit. was withdrawn from the church today, 95% of what we do would go on & no one would know the difference.” A.W. Tozer.

If you want the true church, China is where it's at, or anywhere there is persecution of God's true church. Believers sit in homes guarding the Word so much, that in some places, they not only walk three hours to the place where they worship (usually a shack of a home), then actually tear pages out of the bible to share. One page is all anyone gets!

Even still, we are Saints who sin. Maybe God put you where you are to patiently (in the fruit of the Spirit) tolerate these people and one by one become a leader in this area. Maybe one person there feels the same way you do. Get to the church that is the closest to what may be a church in reality.

When we become objects of persecution, we may actually see the church become one as the Father and Jesus are one. Until then, I hate to say it but, the church is done here. There are good churches in places, but then again, is it really as the church is mean to be? I know people who are in megachurches and happy as clams. I couldn't be because I'd have no fellowship unless I went to a small group. Maybe there is a home group in your area?

Those I know who have discernment, that gift can become negative if not rightly applied and prayed over with God regularly through constant abiding in HIm. Even Jesus said "How much longer will I have to put up with you?". Can you imagine?

Anyway, Kevin, I hear you and you're not alone. Sometimes I just want to move elsewhere, but I'm not at liberting to uproot my husband and son. No one who's discerning is perfectly happy in any church. Again, we're Saints who sin.

Find comfort in only a couple of believers who are like-minded. They're out there. Get a couple of men to meet weekly? Something like this may be all we can hope for here in America.

Candice

[Charles Miles]

Kevin, Let me start by saying that I understand your delemma. Now, let`s go on a bit with your topic and see if there is a problem and if so, what it may be and see if there are possibly some solutions. Are you looking for a church where all the members and pastor will believe as you do? On the major essentials maybe you will find one, but on all facets of worship....I doubt you will find one that is exactly(totally) what you want. I know I looked for a while before I found the church I attend now and it is a very nice, Bible teaching church with a pastor who is well educated in bible and teaches the truth biblically. Still, there are some small things that I`m not completelt pleased with all the time. The congregation is friendly and easy to worship with, and their most endearing quality is"faithfulness". I completely enjoy worship services and enjoy the fellowship. Is it a perfect setting? NO. But it is what I call my church home.
Jesus said..."Love one another even as I have loved you", a tall order, but still that is the command from the Lord to His children. Jesus went to church on the sabbath..."as was His custom", even though He often didn`t recieve a loving welcome. I know it is easier to attend church where you are comfortable and think that you "fit in" with the congregation, and I will urge you to continue seeking a "comfortable" place to worship. BUT the worship service is to worship the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as a corporate body, and not all people wroship exactly alike. As long as a service is worshipful and reverent, I can worship. If things get too far off center, I quietly leave. Maybe we shouldn`t look for diferences that distract us from the purpose of worship, but look for things that we have in unity.
Maybe you could find a small group that meets to worship in a more intimate setting.

[Kevin Blankenship]

I have to confess that I have condemned myself, while ENDURING another church service at such and such church, that I have been too hyper-critical (not HYPO-critical, although I'm THAT too). i would try to stifle my fault finding and finally, when I see some aspect of that particular church that was is blatant disobedience, I would slip away (not in the middle of service). And then would start the struggle within: "YOU ARE JUST TOO HYPER-CRITICAL! YOU (talking to myself) TIE UP BUNDLES that you want others to heave and tote, and I myself will not lift a finger to help them....or even try to tote it myself!" This is a typical conversation with myself before prayer. Maybe I'm not "all there". Seriously, I am doubting my own sanity. Maybe I'm like that demoniac from the Gadarene region.
I am sorry if my thoughts are rambling. The Home Health care just called and said that momma has a BAD urinary tract infection. The stuck a catheter into her yesterday and she peed what looked like a full half gallon, although I exaggerate from time to time. But this is worrying me, and what was important this morning (discussing finding a church) has now been bumped back down the list of things to deal with. Momma has an appt with the wound care clinic this afternoon at 3:30 central time. Since she's bedfast, an ambulance will transport her. She won't mind. She just lays there with a blank look on her face. I can get her to smile sometimes. But she has been having a 102.9 fever everyn night before bedtime, which I bring down with medicine. Actually she has kept a low grade fever daily over the last few weeks, when she caught staph at the hospital (what irony). And I would tell the Home Health nurses daily: Momma's been having fever. Over and over. They finally took a Urine culture yesterday and this morning I had to CALL to get the results. It's as if everyone in my town is in a STUPOR!!!! I asked them if they called the doc for antibiotics. "Not yet, but we will" said they. I'm frustrated at the lack of fervor in these people. I fired the last two Home Health agencies for the same indifference and these folk assured me that THEY were different. ........Of COURSE they are.
Sorry that I hijacked my own thread. I enjoyed both replies. In my spirit, I feel that the church in America is just so use to having NO adversity, like persecutions. Jesus said taht we WOULD face persecutions. He DIDN'T say: Unless you live in America. The question is.....How long will we enjoy this time of peace. We only grow during times of trials and tribs. (Count it all joy brethren when ye suffer divers trials etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc) My mind is racing. I am making no sense.

[Julie Daube]

Kevin, I am so sorry about what you are dealing with concerning your mom and her current health issues. I am praying for her full recovery and that she will get the treatment she needs.

As to the topic of the thread (picking a church), I defnitely understand your frustration. My hsuband and I have attended churches that were not a good fit for us as well as those that we felt were not quite sound doctrinally (including one that put far too much emphasis on the prosperity gospel). Thankfully, four years ago God led us to a church that is just right for us. What we like most about it is that it is truly a family, a body of believers in every sense of the word, and that it is a praying congregation. Is it perfect? No. There are at least a couple of church policies with which my husband and I disagree, including a policy not to emphasize the "sign" gifts of the Holy Spirit (such as prophecy and healing) during pubilc worship services, which we believe have a valid place in the life of the church. However, like Charlie, we have chosen to focus on the things we have in unity and to overlook these relatively insignficant differences. (There are opportunities to pray for healing and be anointed with oil privately after the service, but these are not well communicated. In any case, this is not a big enough issue to distract us from worship.)

Like you, we also have attended a charismatic church where praying in tongues took place without an interpreter. This troubled us for some time. Eventually, however, we were able to overcome our objections to this practice by understanding that when believers pray as a body using in their own prayer languages, there may not be a need for an intrepreter in that context. If it's simply a gathering of believers worshiping God with their prayer language and not the Holy Spirit specifically communicating a message to the body that needs to be interpreted, there may be room for a little latitude. When we looked it that way, we were less distracted by the practice, even though we weren't able to fully embrace it.

I think Charlie hit the nail on the head when he said, "As long as a service is worshipful and reverent, I can worship." The charismatic church I mentioned above definitely had those two characteristics, so we were able to overlook the praying in tongues thing.

I pray that God will fill you with His peace today.

[Julie Daube]

Just thought I should add a specific list of the "earmarks" of a gospel church (from my perspective):

It faithfully teaches the Bible.

It is a praying congregation.

It makes disciples at home and abroad (it is a missions-minded church that is committed to completing the Great Commission).

There is genuine love and caring among the congregation as well as an engaged, proactive love for the lost expressed through practical demonstrations of Christ's love.

There is an emphasis on grace, not legalism.

Jesus Christ is known and exalted.

I could go on, but I think those are some of the primary characteristics of a true gospel church. If I think of any others worthy mentioning, I will add them.

[Julie Daube]

Here's one more: it is a congregation that listens to God's Spirit, embraces the gifts of the Spirit, and seeks to cultivate the fruits of the Spirit.

[Kevin Blankenship]

Julie....a splendid answer to my question. It brings me to another realization. I'll star a new paragraph to communicate it:
I go shopping at Wal Mart and WalGreens and sometimes I'm gone for over an hour. Momma is bedfast, but as long as her TV is on, and her feeding machine is on, and as long as her meds have been given her, she is fine. She'll lay in there and laugh to herself, or talk to herself.......in other words....I could MAKE the time to go to Sunday morning worship at least.....and momma would make it just fine. But reading the classics, and listening to Tozer's preaching, and David Wilkerson and Carter Conlon, etc etc as made everything around here seem so half-baked and just 'going thru the motions'. But Sunday, I am going to a new chruch at 11 am cetral time. Non denominational. If they can at least 'keep it between the lines' and not get carried away during the allter service to the point that young children are scared (how could the Spirit of Christ, or the manisfestations Thereof scare children?? On the other hand, disobedient flesh can easily do that.
I am hoping that they have diagnosed momma's infection correctly. She was prescribed Diflucanole (mispelling of an anti-fungul med). Hope this helps her situation and THANKS for the kind comments Julie!!!

[Julie Daube]

You're welcome, Kevin! I pray that the service will minister to you. Something else occurred to me about the young children being scared by people praying in tongues: perhaps their parents and/or the Sunday school teachers are not doing an adequate job of teaching the kids about the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Usually we are frightened by the uknown, and this is especially true for children. If they understood what was happening, they probably wouldn't be as fearful. Most children at some point have seen people speaking a foreign languge, and normally it doesn't scare them. I would think it would be pretty simple to explain to the kids that this is a special language the Holy Spirit gives some of God's people when they talk to Him. The problem may not be disobedient flesh but poor/inadequate teaching. If that's the case, bringing it up to the pastor (or people on the Christian education/Sunday school team) might help. If there is a Sunday school program, teaching about the gifts of the Spirit (including tongues) could be included in the curriculum. If there is no formal program for children, then maybe the pastor could take a few minutes of the service to explain to the kids what's happening (or encourage the parents to do so). Just something to consider!