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a question on what 'deeper life' means


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#1 gospelou

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 01:35 PM

Hi all,

I'm new to the C&MA and thought this would be the best place to come with questions. I'm looking into C&MA and have gone to one service already. I really liked the whole package.

So I've been reading up on it and only got as far as Wikipedia....(yes, I realize they have their bent, too, and I can't believe everything they say-I've seen errors against another denomination...)so this is why I'm here!!! Can someone point me in the direction on this web site for the explanation of this statement from wiki:


A.B. Simpson articulated the Alliance's core theology as the Christological "Fourfold Gospel": Jesus Christ as Savior, Sanctifier, Healer, and Soon Coming King.[5] Sanctification is sometimes described as "the deeper Christian life".[6] This teaching is similar to that of the Higher Life movement and the Keswick Convention. It is perhaps best exemplified by the writings of A. W. Tozer. The C&MA also emphasizes missionary work, and believes that the fulfillment of the Great Commission is the reason it exists

The part that is bold is where I'm not clear. Are there teachings of a deeper Christian life that are similar to a higher life movement? Here is the Higher life movement quote:

The main idea of the Higher Life movement is that the Christian should move on from his initial conversion experience to also experience a second work of God in his life. This work of God is called “entire sanctification,” “the second blessing,” “the second touch,” “being filled with the Holy Spirit,” and various other terms. Higher Life teachers promoted the idea that Christians who had received this blessing from God could live a more holy, that is less sinful or even a sinless, life. The so-called Keswick approach seeks to provide a mediating and biblically balanced solution to the problem of subnormal Christian experience. The “official” teaching has been that every believer in this life is left with the natural proclivity to sin and will do so without the countervailing influence of the Holy Spirit.

The bold sentence is what I'm questioning. I'm wondering if C&MA is simply promoting the filling of the holy spirit, which is in scripture, but somehow it is now being used out of context? Thanks so much for helping me clear up the cobwebs!!!

Yolanda
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#2 Julie Daube

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 09:54 AM

Hi Yolanda! Welcome to the C&MA! I work at the denomination's National Office on the Communcations team. The following link on our Web site is probably the best place to find the C&MA's teachings on sanctificaiton and what it means to be filled with the Holy Spirit: http://www.cmallianc.../sanctification

I have never heard anyone in the C&MA say that Christians who have been filled with the Holy Spirit can live sinless lives, nor have I read such a statement in any C&MA publication.

I hope this helps!
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#3 Julie Daube

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 10:44 AM

Here's a concise definition I found for the “deeper life” on our Web site: "a commitment to a growing, abiding relationship with Jesus that propels us to complete His last command on earth—His Great Commission." Here is the URL: http://www.cmalliance.org/about/
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#4 StevePage

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 05:26 AM

I have thought about this for sometime now. In my humble opinion “entire sanctification,” “the second blessing,” or “the second touch,” is a point of maturity in the Christian life. We come to Jesus to be our Savior, but at some point He must also become Lord to us. I believe, and I could be wrong, that the deeper life or entire sanctification is the point of Christian maturity when we surrender all to Jesus and Jesus becomes our Lord as well as our Savior.

The idea of entire sanctification comes from John Wesley, and I think he first coined the term "sinless perfection." This is where the Keswicks may get their idea from.

Wesley did not mean that Christians were either perfect or sinless. He was speaking of a Christian maturing to the point where they no longer had a desire to willfully sin. Wesley described Christian perfection as, "The loving God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength. This implies, that no wrong temper, none contrary to love, remains in the soul; and that all the thoughts, words, and actions, are governed by pure love."

Wesley never said we would be sinless. If I understand correctly, he thought we could choose not to willfully sin, but we would still be prone to make mistakes in our judgement and practice. All wrongdoing is sin so even those mistakes must be atoned for and confessed.

But can we be sinless? :) Paul and Jesus both said stop sinning. Jesus was sinless by His choice. We have all sinned therefore we are all sinners and we all have sin, but I can't find anything in scripture that says we must go on sinning. I haven't reached that level, but I hope to reach a point in my relationship with Christ where my desire to serve Him overwhelms the desires of my flesh.
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#5 Pastor Ray Hoke

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 02:52 PM

Yolanda, you have asked a question welcomed by our tribe. The "higher life" or "deeper life" was the passion of a great work of God in Europe and the U.S. during the nineteenth century. This hunger for God was much broader than the C&MA, but the C&MA was born in its fire and, in our tme, is one of it foremost proponents. It was the Keswick Bible conventions in England that gave the movement its global voice. These conferences stirred the church and soon this passion for Christ became a passion for world missions.

An effective way to "catch" the spirit of the Alliance is to read All for Jesus by Niklaus, Sawin, & Stoesz. It is a well done history of who we are and how we got here.

The Spirit-filled life, or Sanctified life, is not just a denominational distinctive. It is, actually, God's intention for every New Testament believer. To Hudson Taylor it was the Exchanged Life, to Hannah Whitall Smith it was The Christian's Secret of a Happy Life, to Andrew Murray it was The Deeper Christian Life. None of these were C&MA leaders but they all had, as we do, a passion to live for Christ in the Power of the Holy Spirit.

As for sinlessness.... My old, dead self will never be anything but sin. The Spirit of Christ who fills me is sinless. The New Testament expectation is for the regenerated believer to stop sinning because sin no more has power over him. (Romans 6,7,8) As I am filled with Christ's Spirit, by faith, I find that the old sinful self really is powerless to make me sin and my whole spirit, soul and body (1 Thes 5:23) can be sanctified unto Christ. As for experiencing absolute perfection...when Jesus comes.

The web sites that Julie Daube gave you are good ones.

Read

Christ in You: The Self-Life & the Christ Life by A.B. Simpson

The Deeper Christian Life by Andrew Murray

Powerlines by Leona Choy

Anything you can get your hands on by A.W. Tozer or Andrew Murray

Amazon and Half.com are excellent inexpensive sources


God bless you,

An Alliance Pastor


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#6 gospelou

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 02:55 PM

Thanks to you all.

Thanks Julie for the sites to check out and for the concise answer. I really appreciate that.

I had a feeling the info on wikipedia was not right. But I appreciate the links.


Yolanda