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Dating while Going through a Divorce


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#1 Jesse4

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 10:38 AM

Is it Biblical to date before you are legally divorced? My understanding of Scripture says 'no'. Divorce must be final or it is the same as adultry in God's eyes. Do you think this is correct or are people free to date during the divorce process?

I see alot of Christians openly date, even in church -while going through a divorce. What's happened? Is the church responsible to hold accountable these actions if they know, especially if someone is serving at church or on staff?


Jesse

#2 David Carter

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 01:25 PM

If by "date" you mean going out with friends, with no intention of getting serious, maybe there is no issue, other than avoiding the appearance of evil. If, however, you mean "date" as in going out with someone who has become your significant other emotionally, or hoping to find out whether that person is a potential future spouse, then I would agree that this is not biblical. Someone who is looking for a future marriage before the current one is legally over is basically cheating on their legal spouse, in my opinion. Furthermore, it is disingenious for the other party to be dating someone who regards their current legal bond so lightly.

In an even more conservative perspective, many would say that even after the divorce, remarriage may not be a legitimate option. If it were, why would Jesus consider it adultery? (Matt. 5:32, 19:9; Mark 10:11, 12; Luke 16:18). If divorce legitimately severs the marriage bond in God's eyes, then remarriage would not be called adultery since adultery is the violation of the marriage bed. For an in depth and extremely conservative study on this subject see the book "The Divorce Myth", by J. Carl Laney.

"What's happened?" Perhaps in the name of grace and mercy we are failing to take a strong stand on the issues. Perhaps in an effort to avoid legalism, we have lost perspective on the fact that God does know best, and His ways are always best. (i.e. Maybe a life of celibacy for the divorcee who simply stays close to Jesus is much better for them than the possibility of making the same mistakes over again in a subsequent marriage.) Perhaps we have come to the place in American Christianity where we think that because the scriptures state clearly that God is love, we don't have to reckon with His other attributes, such as wisdom, justice, etc. And the list goes on...

As to responsibilities of the church in regards to confrontation and accountability, the scriptures are clear (1 Tim. 4:16, James 5:19-20, 1 Tim. 5:19-20). We are to turn one another from sin, to watch out for one another, to hold one another accountable and call one another to repentance.

Confrontation must always be done with a view toward restoration of the repentant. But you must proceed with caution. Seek wisdom from your church leadership, if possible. Ask why they have not addressed it. The answer might be that in the case of "dating" there is no evidence of sexual misconduct and therefore no clear point of sin to confront. I personally think that anyone who is currently legally married and yet is "dating" while awaiting divorce proceedings, is undermining whatever is left of their marriage and showing no regard for the possibility of a future reconciliation.
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David Carter

A blood stained cross, an empty tomb
For by His love He met my doom.
And now I stand in His good place
Amazed by grace, in His embrace.

..."Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures..." (1 Co. 15:3-4, KJV)

#3 chipped china

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 01:53 AM

Jesse,

You probably won't understand right now but ponder this, be married to Jesus for the time being. He will fill your needs if you let Him. Seek first His Kingdom and all else will be given unto you. I truly believe if Christ is not your center from which all things come you will be prone to make more mistakes. Take it from someone who knows. In my prayers, betsy
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#4 adrienne

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:01 AM

Your question is, "is it biblical". Your understanding of scripture is correct. The answer is...simply put..."no".

#5 Julie Daube

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:45 AM

Jesse, it's good that you are concerned about seeing Christians date even while they are going through a divorce. You raised some good questions, especially about the church's responsbilitiy to hold church members/eaders to account. Sadly, I believe that in our current American culture, it has become all too common for professing Christians to disregard what the Bible teaches about many issues and live in outright disobedience. One example is Christians living together prior to marriage; it seems that has become much more common these days. I think David Carter did an excellent job in describing the church's responsiblity to confront these types of issues.

#6 Jesse4

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:41 AM

Thank you all for your thoughtful comments and discussion on this topic. I am going through a divorce, but am not dating. I've had opportunities to date, and have said no because I, too believe that dating through divorce is a Biblically a 'no'.

David Carter, thank you for taking the time to thoroughly respond to the questions. I appreciate your input. There could be several rabbit trails within my post, such as the reasons one is divorcing as- is that, in and of itself, Biblical. ( In my situation, the marriage was very abusive, and resulted in immoral, deviant behaviors and an unrepentant spouse. It would have been dangerous to myself and children to remain in the circumstances. I firmly believe I have Biblical grounds to divorce, and don't feel the need to talk through my decision to divorce, as I am at peace with it and sought Godly counsel- but am open to respond to questions. It wasn't an easy decision, especially considering some of the misguided 'spiritual' counsel I received. )

It is affirming to hear that others do read Scripture the same way. However, It has been disheartening, and even spiritually challenging to know that, in the particular situation I am referring to, the leadership of the CMA church has not only been told that the person is not divorced, continues to allow the person/s to serve and is ignoring the obvious dating, in church. That's why I asked- perhaps it is a CMA position that dating during a divorce is ok. Or perhaps this particular staff is choosing to turn a blind eye. I also know this isn't the first and only instance that the church was aware of dating, living together, etc., and chose to do nothing, by means of accountability. How does one trust leadership when the leaders are not modeling Godly leading? Sure, I can walk away, yet who holds leadership accountable? It makes me concerned what else isn't known.

to 'chipped china'- Amen! I have found new relationship with Jesus in the past 3 yrs that I have been going through this. I understand exactly what you're saying. And while I hope to perhaps one day have a healthy, Godly relationship, if it be His will, today that is not my focus or goal.

#7 Jesse4

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:24 PM

Can you all tolerate additional questions on this topic? :)

David Carter, you commented that confrontation must always be done with caution. Can you further explain what this means...what or why is the need for caution?

If 'dating' is only defined as a sexual relationship prior to divorce, (which isn't Biblically condoned before marriage anyway) then we could claim any relationship as 'only friends', yet spending time and investing emotional energy into a friendship. I believe there needs to be caution here, and do we really need to determine motive if two are seen as a couple routinely.

In response to making the same mistake twice, and going into another destructive relationship...I agree. Time and relationship with God are foundational in order to make discerning decisions about future relationships. However, we can't overlook the fact that everyone does not represent themselves to be who they truly are. The responsibility does not only lay with one person to make the wise choice. As in my circumstances as a survivor, I never would have known or imagined my soon to be ex spouse was capable of doing what was done, or the degree of sexually deviancy that surfaced only many years into the marriage. I gently advise to not blame one person for choosing wrong. Deception is often very charming, and manipulative. Secret sin can be well hidden from many, even leadership. There are too many current stories circulating in the past year to confirm this truth.

We would do well as a church to better understand the cycle of abuse and offer hope and healing to those affected by it. God does not expect us to submit to sin, or allow children to be caught in the crossfire of this or be exposed to deviant behaviors. Let us be proactive to protect, rather than reactive when this type of sin is known.

My prayer is that God will give me the strength to use the wisdom, discernment, justice, Godly friends and counsel and be open to His leading.

#8 David Carter

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 12:07 PM

Hi Jesse,

been a while since I checked back on this thread. To answer your question, I think there is a need for caution in any confrontation of any kind of sin, sexual or otherwise, for several reasons. One of them is that often the sinner is wounded and acting out and we can push them further from God if our approach or attitude is wrong, rather than lead them toward God and restoration/repentance. Also, because the tendency of my own heart, at least, is to make assumptions before I have all the facts, I need to use caution to avoid letting mistaken assumptions steer me into the wrong kind of confrontation. If I have been wounded by the sin and am finding myself in the position of needing to confront it, then I especially need to use caution, with regard to making sure of my motives and intent in the confrontation. For example, I pastor a church and we share/rent our building to two other congregations, one of which is here at the same time we are. This congregation frequently behaves in what I can best characterize as an unintentionally irresponsible and presumptuous manner. I find it extremely frustrating. And when they are being disrespectful to our congregation (i.e. they play their music so loud I can hear it while I am preaching, and one time three of their children ran through our sanctuary during the sermon), I could easily let my frustration build up to motivation for confrontation. But if I do that, I will not be constructive. I will more likely just go in there and use the confrontation as a pressure release for my frustration, which will probably not accomplish the purpose of working out our differences.

But, in my earlier response, when I said that "you must proceed with caution", I meant this with regard to including your church leadership in the process. If the leadership knew about the dating and did nothing to confront it, then using caution would mean that you would still speak to the leadership to let them know what you saw and tell them you thought it needed confronting, and find out if perhaps they had done something already to confront but you were not aware of it, or whether they had some specific knowledge which you don't have about the situation which has caused them not to confront.

On the other hand, if you were thinking of confronting a leader I advise caution because in 1 Tim. 5:19 Paul told Timothy not to even receive (or listen to) an accusation against an elder unless there were two or three witnesses present. Verse 20 makes it clear that if the elder is guilty they must be rebuked publicly, so that others don't follow them into sin. Applying this principle to other leaders, the sins of leaders must be confronted, but we must be careful not to entertain accusations lightly that can adversly affect someone's reputation. Many churches have a procedure for this that is stated somewhere in a policy manual or some such thing.

I suggested in my former reply that the leadership might have a reason for why they were not confronting the behavior, i.e. they felt there was no evidence of sexual misconduct, so what was there to confront?. It was not my intention to imply that I agreed with this reasoning. I do not. Even if the "dating" relationship is completely non-physical, where, as you said, the two are routinely seen together and are investing significant time and emotional energy into one another, I personally would view that as inappropriate for someone who is not yet divorced, and disingenious on the part of the other party. Disingenious because, even if they are deceived and have been lied to about the cause of the person's impending divorce, the fact is that the divorce is not final, and therefore the party is still married.

It would be completely inappropriate for me to invest lots of time and emotional energy into a close friendship with a woman other than my wife, in my opinion. At best that would have to be seen as potentially undermining my commitment to my wife. If I ever did that, I hope someone would love me enough to call me on it in a loving way, and ask me what I was doing and where I thought it was going, and whether I thought it was hurting my wife. And if I were in denial, I hope they would love me enough to get more confrontational and give me a wake up call, and hold me accountable to correct the error of my ways and redirect my attention to my wife.


Hope this helps. I don't check often, but will check this thread again.
David Carter

A blood stained cross, an empty tomb
For by His love He met my doom.
And now I stand in His good place
Amazed by grace, in His embrace.

..."Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures..." (1 Co. 15:3-4, KJV)

#9 Jesse4

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 02:22 PM

Hi David,

I appreciate the time you're taking to respond to this topic. And to all of you who are reading, responding, praying.

There is much wisdom within your comments, which I also appreciate. However, I do still struggle with assumptions that confrontation to sin may come from a motive of pain and therefore is vindictive, even toward the sinner. There will always be pain from the fallout of any of our sins. Some wounds heal quickly, some take a very long time. That alone does not mean that we may be vengeful in spirit. I realize you see this isn't always the case. But no where is there discussion surrounding protecting and standing for the weak and oppressed because of the sin. Lack of confrontation in many circumstances can become the sin of silence, and further wound the oppressed.

God does want each sinner's heart to be repentant and redeemed. We are all sinners! But when the blatant sin has had opportunity to repent, and chooses not to, what then. Yet we can't ignore the fallout of the choices of sinner, or focus primarily on the sinner's potential reaction if confronted. We are not responsible for the choices of others or how they may react, we are accountable to God for our own. Do we neglect confrontation out of fear of what might happen or the turning away from God? Jesus does not model that. I would imagine everyone would not be as receiving and gracious as what you sound to be, if you did and were confronted with spending too much time with another woman other than your wife. But that doesn't relieve us of the responsibilty to confront...does it?

While I agree we must guard our hearts to reacting in vengence from pain, confrontation is Biblical, as you explained very well. In John 8, Jesus confronts both the sinner and the Pharisee's with straight forward actions, and bold, straigh forward statements. He did not tip-toe around leadership, nor did He ridicule the sinner-the woman caught in adultry. We know the Pharisee's were not fans of Jesus, but He called them out on a regular basis, regardless of their reactions or choices to follow or not follow Him.

When facts are known to be true and shared, and leadership chooses to do nothing, this is what grieves me, and is a mockery before God. It is happening repeatedly in a particular CMA church. The stories are multiple, even to the point of not reporting criminal behavior toward minors, in addition to open adultry. It has become so invasive within the church, that a local professional told me that because of the facts, not rumors, of the current situations at this particular church, that's why he 'stays in bed on Sunday mornings'. I know for a fact that the leadership knows many details, and is choosing to remain silent. So this piece of your question is answered. Person after person is learning the truth. What are we called to do...but who will listen?

#10 David Carter

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 02:24 PM

Hi Jesse,

I recognize that I am trying to answer questions without having all the information.

First, I agree with you that just because someone has been hurt does not mean that the pain they feel is their motivation for confrontation. It might be that they feel compassion for someone else who might be about to get hurt in the same way, or compassion for the sinner who hurt them and want that person's relationship with Christ restored, or any number of other positive motives. It might even be that they don't want to confront but feel the scripture says they should. All of these are good reasons to confront. I was not presuming to know your motives, just explaining why caution is necessary. I can sometimes be deceived by my own heart, or at least blind to my own motive, so I encouraged caution.

I agree that Jesus is a good model for confrontation. Three things to remember here. He absolutely knew men's hearts and motives, so He always knew the right approach. He had absolute authority so confronting Pharisees was like the chief shepherd confronting undershepherds who were not doing their jobs. And when He was confronting Pharisees, He was confronting prideful and blatant unbelief in Who He is, but while confronting the woman caught in adultery He was dealing with someone who was sinful no doubt, but also who was being preyed upon by those who should have been shepherding her. Jesus didn't ignore her sin, but also didn't ignore her vulnerability as a potential victim. The whole thing was a set up. Where was the man with whom she was caught? Why wasn't he brought up on charges?

But again, Jesus always knew the right approach. When dealing with the woman at the well, He was not quite so gentle. "You have had five husbands, and the man you currently have is not your husband." He knew what kind of confrontation each person needed.

You wrote: "we can't ignore the fallout of the choices of sinner, or focus primarily on the sinner's potential reaction if confronted. We are not responsible for the choices of others or how they may react, we are accountable to God for our own. Do we neglect confrontation out of fear of what might happen or the turning away from God?" No, at least we shouldn't. I agree with you. I am not saying that we should avoid confrontation of sin simply on the basis that someone might reject the correction and turn further away from God. Some will turn away, others will repent. And if they turn away because they don't want to face the truth and deal, it is what it is. Jesus told the rich man to sell all he had and give to the poor. It was the right thing to tell him, so that he could see he was not as righteous as he thought he was. But he went away sorrowing. And Jesus didn't try to call him back and say, "Hey wait, how can I accomodate you?" What I did say was that "we can push them further from God if our approach or attitude is wrong, rather than lead them toward God and restoration/repentance." When we confront, if we do it with pure motives, we can just let the chips fall, as the other party is responsible for their reaction. But I don't want to push them away because my heart attitude (motive) in the confrontation was wrong or my approach was prideful. Hence again, I use caution, check my motives, pray for wisdom.

Perhaps this story may illustrate my point.
I once had a man on a governing board (not in this church) who was not a member of the church. A previous interim pastor had placed him there, and he had come to think of the position as his, but when I came and began to adhere to the bylaws (which are legally binding in most states) which require the board to be composed of church members, he was hurt and angry. I went to visit him to work it out, and to explain that it was not personal, I was just following the bylaws, which needed to be followed on all points, and he basically told me I was a weak and spineless pastor who would ruin the church (among other things). I held my ground, but left very hurt and somewhat angry. That Sunday, I knew I would have to serve communion, so I prepared myself to speak to him on Sunday morning before the service to make things right. But, I knew that I was still very hurt and felt justified in being angry when I thought about all of his false accusations and the hurtful things he had said. So, not really knowing how to approach him without creating more conflict, and not trusting myself to be dispassionate and unprovocative at the time, I prayed that the Lord would help me forgive, and admitted to the Lord that it would be easier to forgive if the man confessed to me that he was sorry. That Sunday, as he came in the church, he took me aside immediately, and asked me for my forgiveness for the way he had treated me, and for the things he had said. I might not have been able to approach him properly because I was so hurt. But God stepped up. As a result I could conduct communion services with a clear conscience.

Please don't misunderstand. I am not saying that someone who is in pain cannot confront properly. I am only illustrating that in this case which I have recounted, I could not have done it well, even though I wanted my main motive to be to clear the air before I had to serve communion. Had I not been able to do that, I probably would have asked the elders to serve without me that day. As to your own circumstances and what you are seeing, and how it grieves you, you know your own heart's motives. If you are convicted by God to confront, then you have to do so.

Now, the fact that Jesus confronted Pharisees boldly does not change the fact that the Holy Spirit also inspired the scriptures which I mentioned in 1 Timothy 5 about confronting elders. So we have to pray for the wisdom to strike the scriptural balance.

You mentioned that "no where is there discussion surrounding protecting and standing for the weak and oppressed because of the sin. Lack of confrontation in many circumstances can become the sin of silence, and further wound the oppressed." You are right, and we have not been discussing this in any detail, and you are right that it can make matters worse. 1 Timothy 5:20 does imply that the public rebuke of elders is designed to protect the rest of the flock from falling into sin. Paul's rebuke of Peter in Antioch (ref. Galatians 2:11-20) was designed to turn Peter from his sin, as well as to turn back the other Jews who were following him into this sin, and probably also to protect the Gentiles from forming a false understanding of the Gospel. In some cases confronting the sin is a protection for the victims of the sin. But in many cases the victims need more care than just knowing that the sin of which they became a victim has been confronted. It is, however, a step in the right direction by which trust can be built between the one who has the courage to confront the sinner, and the victim who suffers because of that sinner's actions.

You mentioned the possibility of criminal behavior toward minors. A leader who doesn't report this might be operating under the assumption that what he knows is protected by clergy confidential privilege. Depending on state law, this quite possibly is not the case. Perhaps the leaders need to be informed of what the state's law actually is. In many states there is a legal obligation to report, especially if there is a minor involved.

You wrote:
when the blatant sin has had opportunity to repent, and chooses not to, what then....

There is an interesting case study in 1 Corinthians 5, which Paul seems to follow up later in 2 Corinthians 2:1-11.

Since a little bit of yeast leavens the whole batch of dough, it is important to separate the sinner from among the saints. What is interesting to me is that we see not only the possibility of the excommunication of someone from the church for sins of gross immorality, but we seem to also see evidence of that person being restored (if 2 Corinthians 2 is referring to the same person as 1 Corinthians 5).

Consider 2 Timothy 3:16, then 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, then Galatians 6:1, and Jude verses 17-24, esp. 22-23.

You stated: "When facts are known to be true and shared, and leadership chooses to do nothing, this is what grieves me, and is a mockery before God. It is happening repeatedly in a particular CMA church. The stories are multiple, even to the point of not reporting criminal behavior toward minors, in addition to open adultry. It has become so invasive within the church, that a local professional told me that because of the facts, not rumors, of the current situations at this particular church, that's why he 'stays in bed on Sunday mornings'. I know for a fact that the leadership knows many details, and is choosing to remain silent. So this piece of your question is answered. Person after person is learning the truth. What are we called to do...but who will listen?

I think if you have read what I have said so far, you probably have a clear sense of what you are called to do. If you are a member or regular attender of the church in question, ask your pastor for a copy of the Uniform Policy on Discipline, Restoration, and Appeal, which is item E8 in the Manual of the Christian and Missionary Alliance. If you are not a regular there then you may need to go there or to another C&MA church and ask if you could review this Policy. There is a procedure described there for bringing an accusation to the church leadership regarding a member of the church. This procedure attempts to follow the process described by Jesus in Matthew 18:15-20. I would start there (Matt. 18:15). Do step one. If you get no response, do step two (at this point you may want to consult the manual for an acceptable procedure to follow which should be accepted in any C&MA church). If that fails, then step three is next. If you are dealing with church leaders, the manual describes the steps that get you to someone who will listen.

I encourage you to proceed on this with a local pastor or fellow Christian to encourage and advise you.

David Carter

A blood stained cross, an empty tomb
For by His love He met my doom.
And now I stand in His good place
Amazed by grace, in His embrace.

..."Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures..." (1 Co. 15:3-4, KJV)

#11 Jesse4

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 02:38 PM

Thank you, Pastor David,

I appreciate the time you've been taking to reply with depth and thoughfulness.

This paragraph spoke to me, and will briefly comment...you wrote:
"He absolutely knew men's hearts and motives, so He always knew the right approach. He had absolute authority so confronting Pharisees was like the chief shepherd confronting undershepherds who were not doing their jobs. And when He was confronting Pharisees, He was confronting prideful and blatant unbelief in Who He is, but while confronting the woman caught in adultery He was dealing with someone who was sinful no doubt, but also who was being preyed upon by those who should have been shepherding her. Jesus didn't ignore her sin, but also didn't ignore her vulnerability as a potential victim. The whole thing was a set up. Where was the man with whom she was caught? Why wasn't he brought up on charges"

Agreed. It was a set up and I appreciate that you recognized the woman's vulnerability as a potential victim, and as you pointed out, where's the accountability to the man? I also agree that only Jesus knows true motive and our hearts. Yet we are given glimpses into our own hearts, and the hearts of others through actions. Actions that are slanderous, lying, and deceptive do not match that of one who claims repentence.

I understand your story of feeling the need to forgive the one who offended you, and needing to be right before God, and as in your case for you- before serving communion. I agree, that even if a person does not accept an attempt at mending an offense, we are called to do our part and try. I have been able to forgive those who I feel have shunned and betrayed me, even the man whom I am divorcing. Forgiveness is for me, for us...to release us of bitterness and release us from the sinful behavior commited against us. However, forgiveness is not the same as trust. Forgiveness does not provide an automatic shift back to trust, or blind trust. Trust is earned back. Even then, there can be consequences, sometimes life-long consequences, to choices and behaviors. Otherwise, every prisoner who repents, is given forgiveness, and finds salvation would not have to serve the remainder of a sentence. A child who cheats on a test may still receive a failing grade, even if they ask for forgiveness and are given it. I share this to acknowledge that a restoration of all involved can't begin to happen until the behavior is held accountable and confronted. It is then up to those confronted to choose whether or not they will sincerely repent and be restored, and accept the consequences of their choices.

I hear you, and believe I do know what I'm called to do, and I've tried, and continue to speak the truth as the opportunities arise. There are several others within this C&MA church who have also confronted, and no action is taken. There is only so much one person can do... as a 'David' tries to take on a Goliath. That's why I posted this story here, because no one locally will listen, or act. There is staff at this very large church who are on the National Board. There are staff at this church who are socializing with the married man and his girlfriend, openly. There are young children involved and at risk.....this is my utmost concern. I am doubtful that anyone locally will be willing help in this situation, because of the degree of favoritism, magnitude of influence, and finances involved. My experience so far, over the past 4 years, is that very few people are willing to do what is right, especially when it's not popular. People, in general, are afraid to get involved in the messiness of others lives, especially if they may be 'labeled' and shunned as well. There are many masks, few are willing to remove their own for the cause of another, regardless of the severity of the circumstances. So thank you for listening, hearing, and taking the time to reply. Please pray that God will protect and shine the light of truth on these circumstances, so that all those involved will be safe, especially the children, and redeemed. I pray that those who are willling to be the voice of truth will not be afraid to stand and do so. For right reasons, I believe, I am doing my part.

#12 Dan Wetzel

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 03:01 PM

I am somewhat hesitant about the need to weigh in on this topic. The conversation thus far seems to me to be a healthy one and it is being pursued with an apparent attempt to balance grace and justice. But, because of the implications concerning the responsibilities of leadership in the local church I do want to offer a few comments.

First, pastoral responsibility extends to the protection of the entire congregation and not only the individual. That is, although there must always be concern and caring expressed for those individuals who have fallen into sin in one way or another (the conversation started in relationship to "dating" while not yet divorced), that needs to be balanced by the responsibility to protect the integrity of the congregation and its ministry. Sin which has the potential to adversly impact other members of the congregation should be addressed in a somewhat different manner than actions which do not. The general rule is that "private sin" is dealt with privately and "public sin" is dealth with publically, weithin the context of the membership of the church. Sin does need to be confronted, albeit gently and with an awarness of personal vulnerability. The purposes of disciplinary action must always be redemptive and not simply punitive. The uniform policies of the C&MA are designed for that purpose in keeping with Biblical admonitions. Seldom do members of the congregation know all that has been done by leadership to address circumstances. Leaders must guard the confidential nature of relationships. If it appears that there are obvious instances of pastoral neglect by the leadership of the congregation, it is appropriate for members to report their perceptions to the district superintendent with an equal amount of care and grace they expect from the congregation's leadership concerning their own matters.

There are few (if any States) where pastors are exempt from the responsibility to report suspected abuse of a minor or vulnerable adult. Furthermore, the policies of the C&MA are very clear about pastoral responsibilities toward the victims of abuse. They are to be reported both to the proper civil authorites and to the district superintendent.
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#13 David Carter

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 02:07 PM

Dan,

Thank you for weighing in on this topic. You have brought additional perspective on pastoral responsibility to the forefront. I hope Jesse will find your words helpful if she pursues this further.


David Carter

A blood stained cross, an empty tomb
For by His love He met my doom.
And now I stand in His good place
Amazed by grace, in His embrace.

..."Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures..." (1 Co. 15:3-4, KJV)

#14 Jesse4

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 09:04 AM

Thank you, Dan for weighing in on this topic.

Your insights and suggestions are very helpful and I appreciate the time you took to reply. This has been one of the hardest journey's in life, and I have never been comfortable with confrontations, until the past 2 yrs. But as it has been necessary to protect young children involved, God has been giving me the strength to remove us from a very abusive, deviant situation, remove my own blinders and not remain silent out of fear, but put on the armour of God and speak the truth with courage.

I will will continue to pursue this situation and ask for prayer. How does one locate district superintendents?

#15 Guest_Marvin Harrell_*

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 07:28 AM

Amen, Dan. Thank you for your kindness and insight as well as your directions for potential next steps. Jesse, you can find the information about districts on our District web pages. Each page has contact information for a given district as well as who the superintendent of that district is.

Continue to the C&MA Districts page

#16 anonymous

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 01:48 PM

I sympathize with Jesse. I have been going through a divorce for over 8 years. My wife had used me for immigration and financial gain while pursuing multiple sexual affairs. I had been both physically assaulted and emotionally abused which pushed me to multiple suicide attempts in 2005. She is intentionally stalling the legal process to extort more money out of me and to prevent me from moving on with my life. I am lonely and want to have a relationship but I have received only condemnation from the C&MA for getting too close to someone while still legally married. It does not seem right.

#17 David Carter

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 01:27 PM

Anonymous,

I am sorry to hear about the difficulty of your circumstances, and am glad that the multiple suicide attempts were not successful. Loneliness is something I understand. I was single, never married, till almost 41 years old. It was a long wait, and loneliness was a frequent companion. Jesus can be a very dear friend during such times. Having a "relationship" is not always the answer, especially if it is a kind of relationship which God won't bless. During the lonely years good friendships with other men and with married couples were a great blessing.

As for feeling condemned by the C&MA for getting too close to someone other than your legal spouse while still legally married, I would simply suggest to you that you don't have to please the C&MA, you have to please God. We don't have the right or power to condemn you, but Jesus does have that kind of authority, yet He died for our sins. So if the C&MA or a representative individual or church told you that your actions were wrong, check it against the Word of God. If they were presenting the truth of the Bible to you, then your issue is not with the C&MA, but with God's Word.

My view on the matter can be found in the second post at the beginning of this thread. Start with the scriptures referenced there, and do your own homework. Even if you don't agree with me, it is in your best interest to know what you do believe the Bible teaches on this matter, and then to let the Bible inform your actions.

I want to challenge a certain assumption that seems prevalent in our culture, which is that it is somehow unfair if the victim of divorce is prevented from remarrying in order to find happiness. (I know you have not specifically asserted this, but the logic may still apply.) Is it unfair that some people never marry? Is it not possible that God can fulfill us by giving us more of Himself? Is it true that single people can't be happy in Christ? I could go on, by my point is that I believe we can find happiness in Christ, either in the context of marriage, or in the absence of marriage, or even in the absence of having a significant other to date. Certainly the fact that so many people in our culture having experienced failed marriages has provided ample proof that marriage is not necessarily the road to happiness.

Marriage is not the only antidote to loneliness, and sometimes people are lonely within their marriages. But there is only one Friend who will never leave us or forsake us, who can be there with us every moment of every day, knowing our deepest thoughts, needs, and desires, and loving us unfailingly in the midst of all our pain and suffering, and that friend is Jesus.

So, examine the Word and determine God's will on the matter. Maybe the people who are warning you that what you are doing is wrong are the same people who could be friends who could help with the loneliness. Maybe another relationship with another woman isn't the answer.

Just a thought.
David Carter

A blood stained cross, an empty tomb
For by His love He met my doom.
And now I stand in His good place
Amazed by grace, in His embrace.

..."Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures..." (1 Co. 15:3-4, KJV)