predestination/election
#1
Posted 03 April 2012 - 07:21 AM
#2
Posted 03 April 2012 - 11:12 AM
#3
Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:24 PM
Christian theology teaches the doctrine of prevenient grace, which briefly stated means this, that before a man can seek God, God must first have sought the man.
Before a sinful man can think a right thought of God, there must have been a work of enlightenment done within him; imperfect it may be, but a true work nonetheless, and the secret cause of all desiring and seeking and praying which may follow.
We pursue God because, and only because, He has first put an urge within us that spurs us to the pursuit. “No man can come to me,” said our Lord, “except the Father which hath sent me draw him,” and it is by this very prevenient drawing that God takes from us every vestige of credit for the act of coming. The impulse to pursue God originates with God, but the outworking of that impulse is our following hard after Him; and all the time we are pursuing Him we are already in His hand: “Thy right hand upholdeth me.”
In this divine “upholding” and human “following” there is no contradiction. All is of God, for as von Huegel teaches, God is always previous. In practice, however, (that is, where God’s previous working meets man’s present response) man must pursue God. On our part there must be positive reciprocation if this secret drawing of God is to eventuate in identifiable experience of the Divine. In the warm language of personal feeling this is stated in the Forty-second Psalm: “As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?” This is deep calling unto deep, and the longing heart will understand it.
Please do not get distracted by this debate. The fact is Scripture clearly teaches predestination. Secondly the scripture contains even more concerning our need to choose God. We are therefore to understand that we are predestined and that we must also choose.
On a practical level; Never ever ever say or allow yourself to think "I am so smart that I justified God in my own mind and therefore became a Christian" instead thank God that he chose you. Secondly, seek to make your calling an election sure, study to show yourself approved, come near to God, do what he says and therefore show you are His child. We all have very limited brains so lets not expect we will understand intersections of predestination and free-will as God does. Instead lets just rest in the fact God has given us everything we need on the practical level to both trust and obey.
- Kate Curry likes this
#4
Posted 03 April 2012 - 07:30 PM
very well saidA.W. Tozer starts out his book "The Pursuit of God" with this...
Christian theology teaches the doctrine of prevenient grace, which briefly stated means this, that before a man can seek God, God must first have sought the man.
Before a sinful man can think a right thought of God, there must have been a work of enlightenment done within him; imperfect it may be, but a true work nonetheless, and the secret cause of all desiring and seeking and praying which may follow.
We pursue God because, and only because, He has first put an urge within us that spurs us to the pursuit. “No man can come to me,” said our Lord, “except the Father which hath sent me draw him,” and it is by this very prevenient drawing that God takes from us every vestige of credit for the act of coming. The impulse to pursue God originates with God, but the outworking of that impulse is our following hard after Him; and all the time we are pursuing Him we are already in His hand: “Thy right hand upholdeth me.”
In this divine “upholding” and human “following” there is no contradiction. All is of God, for as von Huegel teaches, God is always previous. In practice, however, (that is, where God’s previous working meets man’s present response) man must pursue God. On our part there must be positive reciprocation if this secret drawing of God is to eventuate in identifiable experience of the Divine. In the warm language of personal feeling this is stated in the Forty-second Psalm: “As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?” This is deep calling unto deep, and the longing heart will understand it.
Please do not get distracted by this debate. The fact is Scripture clearly teaches predestination. Secondly the scripture contains even more concerning our need to choose God. We are therefore to understand that we are predestined and that we must also choose.
On a practical level; Never ever ever say or allow yourself to think "I am so smart that I justified God in my own mind and therefore became a Christian" instead thank God that he chose you. Secondly, seek to make your calling an election sure, study to show yourself approved, come near to God, do what he says and therefore show you are His child. We all have very limited brains so lets not expect we will understand intersections of predestination and free-will as God does. Instead lets just rest in the fact God has given us everything we need on the practical level to both trust and obey.
#5 Guest_Abi's Son_*
Posted 10 April 2012 - 01:43 PM
#6
Posted 15 April 2012 - 02:54 PM
If this search for answers is causing you to lose your peace then it has become a problem for you. Perhaps you have gone from seeking God to seeking human understanding of the things of God. Seeking God should never cause you to lose your peace. True peace is of God - John 4: 27 "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid."
Remember that we are not meant to understand everything in this life. Sometimes we must come to God and say I don't understand and then be still and know that He is God. Take some time to dwell on WHO God is and questions will fade into the back ground in the glow of the glory of our God.
Are we saved by predestination? Yes- Eph 1:4,5 "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ"
Are we saved when we choose to come to God? Yes- John 3:16 "For God so love the world that He gave His only Son that WHOEVER believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life".
The answer to both is yes. The answer to both is God. Accept that God is beyond our understanding. Seek Him and then rest in the knowledge that He is in control and we don't have to comprehend all the mysteries of faith, simple believe in God. "Be still and know".
I am praying for God to bring His peace to you.
#7
Posted 21 April 2012 - 07:25 AM
In Christ's love,
Charles Miles MD
#8
Posted 21 April 2012 - 07:28 AM
In Christ's love,
Charles Miles MD
#9
Posted 21 June 2012 - 06:26 AM
Was Adam predestined to eat from the tree of life? Was Cain predestined to murder Abel? Did God foreordain that man would be so sinful that he would cause the flood? Were the ten tribes destined to be lost? In each of those cases we see that choices were made by people.
Abraham made a choice to stay in covenant with God. He stumbled, and the Lord showed grace, but Abraham always returned to covenant. God did call Abraham but Abraham had to chose to be party to the covenant and had to agree to the conditions of the covenant. Later Israel was told of the Mosaic covenant and they could choose to agree to it or not.
Certainly Israel was elected. But Israel was elected because God wanted a nation that would a light to all other nations, of course Israel failed in that role, never the less it was the role that Israel had so that all nations could turn to God. Remember that though Israel was God's chosen nation, God also made provision for any nation to join with Israel if they chose.
I think this may be true for the Church as well. Some were (are) predestined to be saved to get the ball rolling and jump start the church. That does not mean that every saved person was predestined. God does not meet every person as he did Paul, God is able and will take extraordinary measures to make the gospel accessible to all. We only need to think of the gift of tongues given at Pentecost to see that He took an extraordinary measure so the gospel would be shared in every language.
We see that God caused Pharaoh and other kings of the world to go against Israel, certainly that does not mean He causes every action in every person. Specific people have been raised up through time to cause God's will to happen (John the Baptist for example), but I see no reason in scripture to think that principle is to be applied to every person and every decision. We see many to many examples of free will, election and predetermines for any one of concepts to be absolute. Our covenant with Jesus is no different than any other Biblical covenant. Every person will have the opportunity to accept or reject the New Covenant. If they accept it they will need to decide daily if they will remain in it.
#10
Posted 21 June 2012 - 11:07 AM
#11
Posted 22 June 2012 - 03:49 PM
"I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrectionfrom the dead. Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained."
#12
Posted 07 January 2024 - 11:23 PM