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Spiritual Gifts

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#21 revivalfire



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Posted 11 May 2012 - 02:45 PM

Hi there, just signed up and it is my first post.

Someone mentioned Parham's subsequence doctrine.

My Honours year dissertation was on the history and development of the pentecostal teaching on Spirit Baptism.

It is a little known fact that Azusa street, led by W.J Seymour, developed a different teaching on subsequence than that which was promoted by Parham.

The reason that Parham taught that tongues was the initial evidence of the baptism in the Spirit is because:

1) he understood the gift of tongues to be xenolalia (known languages)
2) Baptism in Spirit was for the purpose of preaching the gospel
3) Xenolalia would enhance missions (missionaries would not have to spend many years learning the language)
4) The effect would be a large global harvest of souls
5) Jesus would return after this end time harvest

There was only one problem.

Missionaries recieved the gift of tongues, went out to the foreign field thinking they had recieved the language, and, for the most part, came back with their tails between their legs.

We can understand from this that Parham's initial evidence theory was embedded in practical expectations.

Seymour (Parham's student) redifined Parham's subsequent doctrine by explaining it in terms of glossalalia (unkown languages), based upon 1 Cor 14.

#22 Alan G Phillips Jr

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 12:17 PM


Sorry it took me so long to reply to you. I have been busy grading exams, writing and finishing up some of my own seminary courses online.

Thanks for your first post. What an exciting insight from the depths of your own research! Where did you do your work? So, basically, you are saying that the subsequence doctrine via Parham is more closely aligned to xenolalia, not glossolalia. Fascinating. So, you are saying that Seymour's take on the matter was different. In what ways?

This is one of the reasons I love this forum. As a part-time minister, anthropologist/ sociologist of religion and writer, I am amazed at some of the deep biblical and historical insights I have gained by participating here.

Another key question: Why do you think some Pentecostal groups are more insistent on the subsequence doctrine than others? I know that when I attended a Four Square Gospel church years ago subsequence was not a major focus, as it was in the A of G or Church of God (Cleveland, Tennessee). Often, I wonder why this is so. Synan's work does not seem to shed much light on this.


Alan G. Phillips, Jr.

#23 Alan G Phillips Jr

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 12:20 PM

It has been awhile since I have posted here, but since doing so, I came across an older, well-written book entitled The Baptism of the Holy Spirit: The Views of A. B. Simpson and His Contemporaries by Richard Gilbertson, Camp Hill, Pennsylvania: Christian Publications, 1993.

This is a phenomenal book that really sheds light on many of the points that have been examined in this forum. Several points come through loud and clear in this text. I will briefly summarize some of them:

1. Simpson categorically rejected the view (prevalent in many large Pentecostal/ Charismatic groups today) that a believer must "speak in tongues" to be considered baptized in the Holy Spirit. The founder of the C & MA would not have endorsed the commonly accepted view that tongues are the only "initial" evidence of baptism in the Holy Spirit.

2. There were many different views about the baptism of the Holy Spirit in Simpson's day. He sought balance and tolerance between them.

3. Also, Simpson was very Christocentric in his theology, moving away from those who tried to focus solely on the Holy Spirit at the expense of Christ's message and mission.

4. Finally, A. B. Simpson worked hard to maintain a balanced view of the Christian life, one that remained open to the supernatural while avoiding non-biblical extremes.

After reading this text, I have come away thinking that the church today really needs to get back to the Godly, balanced voices of the past. In an era overrun by "Word Faith" heresies, prosperity Gospel gurus, self-proclaimed "prophets" and dead orthodoxy, we need a return to sound foundations.

Blessings to All,

Dr. Alan G. Phillips, Jr.

#24 pakaf



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Posted 19 January 2024 - 12:43 AM


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#25 Roger1



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Posted 12 February 2024 - 07:04 AM

Upon returning to the Alliance website at a later time, I discovered that my views closely aligned with the Alliance's stance on the gardening sense spiritual gifts in several aspects. During my presentation, a significant aspect of my argument relied on the interpretation of I Corinthians 13: 8-10 as presented by Evangelical Christian apologist Ron Rhodes and other scholars.