Giving as a requiremet to serve as an elder
#1
Posted 19 November 2010 - 03:27 PM
One that is not listed but has risen to the surface in recent years and in some denominational circles is the idea of, should a man's tithing/giving record be considered in his selection as an elder? Some have argued,
>"How can you make financial decisions for the church if you yourself are not giving?"
>"How can you be a leader of the church if you have not submitted to the reality that all we have comes from Him?"
>Tithing is 'Old Testament' and we are no longer under the law!"
>"What I give is between me and the Lord. It's no one elses business!"
I am sure there are other questions that have arisen as well. Some are concerned that the issue of giving will become the primary criteria in choosing an elder.
What are your thoughts and experiences?
#2
Posted 19 November 2010 - 09:12 PM
I don't believe that giving should be the primary criteria for choosing an elder. I have known pastors who obsessed over tithing while they were living in outright rebellion against God, so clearly one's giving records should not be the main criteria in choosing any church leader.
#3
Posted 19 November 2010 - 10:29 PM
#4
Posted 20 November 2010 - 08:28 AM
I do think that one's giving (not tithing) should be considered, even under these instances, since it does reflect one's relationship with Christ. And of course, an elder is to be a mature follower of Christ.
#5
Posted 21 November 2010 - 12:51 AM
#6
Posted 21 November 2010 - 09:05 AM
If your church keeps "score" this way, then yes, giving should be considered. I don’t see how one can be an effective elder if they are out of sync with the traditions of a community. That said, I'll also say that I would never consider attending (let alone being an Elder at) a church that tracked an individual’s giving for any other purpose other tax receipts.
Money , or use of money, is a very poor indicator of commitment to Christ. It’s poor indicator of intelligence, righteousness, wisdom, leadership, spirituality, or giftedness for that matter. We have a tough time with this truth in our culture. Knowing this, wisdom would dictate that individuals giving patterns be kept secret, away from church staff and elders. Away from the temptation of coupling the churches constant need for cash to the desires of “heavy hitters” and “major donors”. You’ll make those who use wealth to acquire power mad when they discover that their money can’t “buy influence” in the church, but you’ll have a healthier church for it.
#7
Posted 21 November 2010 - 10:19 AM
When you look at the design of a typical church, what you will see is little more than a dysfunctional theatre. We have a lot of the equipment and technology to put on main stage productions, but because of the designs, we can do little more than Sunday services. Now what would happen if we started the design process by designing a theatre. We could build up a theatre company with actors, directors, designers and technicians. We could put on plays which glorified God while bringing in an income to help pay for the building and fund the church. We could open thing up so members of the community could not only take part in putting on the productions, but also it would be an avenue through which we can touch the lives of both the audience and those who are part of the production.
This is only one example of what could be done, but by integrating business/ministry into the church design process, we would be making better use of funds and resources while having a greater level of influence on the world around us. Also think of the discipleship opportunities involved here. By having a church where ministry and practical outreach is happening right there in the church, it gives new believers a chance to learn about ministry by being an active part in it. It could be a place for people to explore their calling and potential while having the backing and relative safety of being with other believers.
#8
Posted 23 November 2010 - 08:34 AM
When you look at the design of a typical church, what you will see is little more than a dysfunctional theatre. We have a lot of the equipment and technology to put on main stage productions, but because of the designs, we can do little more than Sunday services. Now what would happen if we started the design process by designing a theatre. We could build up a theatre company with actors, directors, designers and technicians. We could put on plays which glorified God while bringing in an income to help pay for the building and fund the church. We could open thing up so members of the community could not only take part in putting on the productions, but also it would be an avenue through which we can touch the lives of both the audience and those who are part of the production.
That's an excellent idea!
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#9
Posted 07 January 2011 - 04:15 AM
I'm just saying...
#10
Posted 10 January 2011 - 10:41 AM
Good questions! I have often wondered the same thing...So, my question is, if we're giving to get a tax break then is it really because we love God and am a "giving person", or is the whole "I'm a giving person" become just smoke for the real reason I give, which is to get the tax break. Why do we "need" the tax break? Why don't we sacrifice out of a love for God?
I'm just saying...
#11
Posted 12 January 2011 - 08:19 AM
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#12
Posted 12 January 2011 - 08:35 AM
#13
Posted 12 January 2011 - 10:29 AM
Ultimately giving is an act of worship. It is practicing stewardship, recognizing that everything we have is from the Lord. Giving is investment - eternal investment. It is a spiritual discipline. "There is a connection between our spiritual lives and how we handle our money" - Randy Alcorn, The Treasure Principle. I am not proposing legalism nor focus on tax breaks. Those are not godly motives. But if there is a connection between how we handle money and our spiritual life, then I would say that a pattern of giving should be seen in an elder.
When I give, sometimes it is through financial resources, but more often than not, it is through investing my time and energy, and sharing my wisdom and knowledge with others. Giving of your money is an act of worship. How you deal with your money can show a lot of who you are, but I believe that what you do with your non-monetary resources can show even more and be an even greater worshipful sacrifice. Giving of your financial resources is a sacrifice and there are certain things that only money can buy like food, shelter, etc. Yet in many ways it is a hands off investment. It is much easier to give someone else money so they can feed the hungry and help the broken hearted, than it is to go out and take a place on the front lines yourself. That doesn't mean that we all need to become pastors or missionaries, but each one of us can have an impact on our family, friends, neighbors and our community simply by taking an interest and being a part of the world around us. Being a light that shines out into the darkness simply means letting your light shine wherever you are and touching others starting with those closest to you and working your way out.
Giving is an eternal investment and when we give, we should be looking for one day receiving eternal returns. But we live in the here and now, so we should also be working towards more immediate returns. When I invest time and energy into my son's life, I do it in the hopes that he will grow up to be a good and honorable man who seeks and lives for God throughout whatever his life may bring. When I invest into my friends, family, community and the society in which I live, my hope is that my investment will have an impact on the lives of those around me, and that it will encourage others to step out and become part of the process. The more people who become involved, the greater impact we can have as a body. As my original seeds continue to expand and grow, I believe that God will bring them to fruition and multiply them back to me, so that I can take those seeds and reinvest them into the kingdom.
As believers, we have a tendency of seeing the eternal as being the life to come instead of seeing it in the here and now. As we build up businesses, as we invest into peoples lives and bring change to our communities and societies, we are having an eternal impact in this temporal world. Instead of biding our time until Christ returns, we should be treating this world as if it were our eternal inheritance. By doing this, it would give us a whole new perspective and give us the added vision to transform this world for the glory of God. But for that to happen, each of us needs to know who we are as God's children and we need to step out into the calling that He has placed onto our lives. We need to take an active part and an interest in the world around us and see the whole world as our church...truly a city without walls.
#14
Posted 12 January 2011 - 10:59 AM
The reason this discussion is focused on money is that was the topic question asked at the beginning of the thread.
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#15
Posted 12 January 2011 - 12:04 PM