Jump to content


Photo

Simpson and Tozer


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Paul Yanchek

Paul Yanchek

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 110 posts
  • Location:Pittsburgh, PA
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Pastor

  • I attend an Alliance church
  • Christ Alliance Church

Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:12 PM

OK, so much of what we talk about in these forums may be very much influenced by our areas of ministry. The religious atmosphere of Cleveland, Ohio most assuredly has its own obstacles and struggles. With that, I know the Alliance has a slightly different feel from District to District. With that in mind, I am looking at a particular issue. Of course I have my gut feeling as to why I perceive it to be happening, but I want to hear from you all.

When I came into the Alliance (1998/1999 started my approval process), I heard Tozer talked about and quoted A LOT! It seemed, to me, like Simpson was an afterthought. Fast forward almost 10 years to present day. I hear Simpson talked about and quoted A LOT! And it seems, to me, like Tozer has become an afterthought. I base this only on my own interactions with Alliance pastors, newsletters and what stands out to me in ALife.

Does anyone else see a shift from Tozer back to more of Simpson? If so, why do you think it is happening? For now, I am not hinting if this shift is positive or negative - just reflecting on a shift I see.

Or, maybe I am on my own on this one!

#2 Denes House

Denes House

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 442 posts
  • Location:Gates, NY
  • Interests:I am married to the beauteous Karina, and have two excellent children, Timothy and Evelyn. I love science fiction, kayaking, fantasy, philosophy, theology, politics, movies, illustration, and computer graphics.
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Pastor

  • I attend an Alliance church
  • Trinity Alliance Church

Posted 23 February 2008 - 05:55 AM

I came into the Alliance in 2003 as a member, and 2006 as a pastor. Not long enough to see any shifts...
For those who are wondering, my name is spelled "Denes House," but it's pronounced "Throatwobbler Mangrove..."

Visit my weblog, online art gallery, and church's website!

#3 Russell Huizing

Russell Huizing

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 132 posts
  • Location:Saegertown, PA
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Pastor

  • I attend an Alliance church
  • Pleasantview Alliance Church

Posted 23 February 2008 - 07:06 AM

Came into the Alliance last year....who's Simpson???? (Just kidding :P )

#4 Dan Morrow

Dan Morrow

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 185 posts
  • Location:Redding, CA USA
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Layperson

  • I attend an Alliance church
  • Neighborhood Church of Redding

Posted 23 February 2008 - 09:52 AM

I believe there is a shift underway. The challenge of "Living the call together" as a denomination brings forward a set of challenges that Simpson lead the denomination through nearly 100 years ago.

Simpson was a visionary, and a gifted and charismatic leader. For those who are unfamiliar or interested in reading some of his works, his writings can be found on line at:

http://www.cmallianc.../ab_simpson.jsp

#5 Paul Yanchek

Paul Yanchek

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 110 posts
  • Location:Pittsburgh, PA
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Pastor

  • I attend an Alliance church
  • Christ Alliance Church

Posted 27 February 2008 - 01:50 PM

I'll stir the pot with my thoughts. First, both are great men of God. Their books are deep and profound and revolutionary.

When I think of Simpson, and I guess other do the same, I immediately think of a great visionary in the realm of missions and evangelism. When I think of Tozer, and I think others do the same, I think about a man deeply committed to boldly preach the truths of God's Word and calling the Church to holiness. The two men combined give a great scope of who we are as the Christian and Missionary Alliance.

We are VERY committed to reaching the world for Jesus - and that is good. But what I personally see happening is less attention given to the Christian side of our name. When people think of the C&MA, do they think of a group of people deeply committed to the Bible as much as they are missions? When I hear us talked about, it is in the realm of being on the cutting edge of missionary work. I no longer hear us talked about when people mention the greatest preachers of our day. Simpson was Moody's favorite preacher. Tozer is still impacting lives decades after his death.

There are people still alive who knew Tozer and heard him preach on a regular basis. Because of that, it is hard to re-invent him. Simpson, on the other hand, has no one alive who knew him personally. In a way, we can re-invent him to be who we want him to be. I have hear people make the argument that Simpson would support the Emergent Movement. Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't. We do not know, so we assume. I think we would all have to agree that Tozer would have no patience for the Emergent Movement. We can find out for sure by asking those who knew him and what he stood for.

We can adapt a souls at all costs mentality - using any and every means we want - because we can say Simpson is on our side.

I am glad we are bringing Simpson back to the forefront - his heart should inspire us today. But I think we need to take care with making assumptions about what he would and would not endorse today. I am concerned, though, that Tozer seems to be getting pushed under the rug in the process. We cannot lose that convicing call to the authority of the Bible and the need for holiness in our day.

Let us truly be the Christiand AND Missionary Alliance, not just the Missionary Alliance. On an interesting note, I have heard many non-Alliance people just call us the Missionary Alliance. Interesting!

We must be careful lest we bring up the next generation to go into all the world to preach the Gospel, all the while being lean in the Spirit. It's almost like we think we can't be serious about the Bible and missions at the same time. SInce when are the two mutually exclusive???

#6 Ed Davis

Ed Davis

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Layperson

  • I attend an Alliance church
  • State College C&MA

Posted 27 February 2008 - 05:49 PM

I tend to view Simpson as the heart of the C&MA. He's the man with the God-given passion for the lost and for the deeper christian life.

Tozer, on the other hand, is our soul. He's the man who taught us how to be still and know... to pursue God with everything we have and everything we are.

#7 Paul Yanchek

Paul Yanchek

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 110 posts
  • Location:Pittsburgh, PA
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Pastor

  • I attend an Alliance church
  • Christ Alliance Church

Posted 27 February 2008 - 09:39 PM

Ed -
Well put. And the two aspects, when kept together, is a powerful force for the Gospel. It is what has brought the Alliance this far.

#8 Abraham E. Sandler

Abraham E. Sandler

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • I am a Missionary

  • I attend a non-Alliance church
  • Shoresh David Messianic Congregation

Posted 13 February 2009 - 03:49 PM

When I think of Simpson, and I guess other do the same, I immediately think of a great visionary in the realm of missions and evangelism. When I think of Tozer, and I think others do the same, I think about a man deeply committed to boldly preach the truths of God's Word and calling the Church to holiness. The two men combined give a great scope of who we are as the Christian and Missionary Alliance.

SInce when are the two mutually exclusive???


Paul, what many C&MA miss today is that BOTH Simpson and Tozer's spiritual formations were rooted in the Catholic Contemplitives (St. John of the Cross, Theresa de Avila, Molineux, Madame Guyon, etc).

The effectiveness of there various giftings was due to DEEPER LIFE they found through their teachings.

(for more, read "A.B. Simpson and the Pentecostal Movement" by Charles Nienkirchen (my prof at the C&MA Bible college in Canada) and read THE FOOTNOTES.

C&MA churches USED to have TWO conferences each year ... a DEEPER LIFE conference, and a MISSIONS conference.

We no longer have the DEEPER LIFE conference and our missions are suffering horribly. A connection? I think so.

Simpson and Tozer ... same stream ... deep calls to deep ... activating different gifting.

-abraham E. Sandler (NOT the Reverend)
SON OF long time C&MA missionary

#9 Greg Kensson

Greg Kensson

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 46 posts
  • Location:West Coast of North America
  • Interests:My passion is to enable North Americans to use professional skills to spread the Kingdom cross culturally, at home and abroad.
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Layperson

  • I attend an Alliance church
  • Alliance Church in a suburban area

Posted 13 February 2009 - 07:31 PM

Paul, what many C&MA miss today is that BOTH Simpson and Tozer's spiritual formations were rooted in the Catholic Contemplitives (St. John of the Cross, Theresa de Avila, Molineux, Madame Guyon, etc).

The effectiveness of there various giftings was due to DEEPER LIFE they found through their teachings.

(for more, read "A.B. Simpson and the Pentecostal Movement" by Charles Nienkirchen (my prof at the C&MA Bible college in Canada) and read THE FOOTNOTES.

C&MA churches USED to have TWO conferences each year ... a DEEPER LIFE conference, and a MISSIONS conference.

We no longer have the DEEPER LIFE conference and our missions are suffering horribly. A connection? I think so.

Simpson and Tozer ... same stream ... deep calls to deep ... activating different gifting.

-abraham E. Sandler (NOT the Reverend)
SON OF long time C&MA missionary


This is helpful background for those of us who don't have a background in the Alliance. Thanks.

#10 Dennis Miller

Dennis Miller

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 45 posts
  • Location:Haysville, KS
  • Interests:Music (Performing/Recording), Karate, My wife of 29 years.
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Pastor

  • I attend a non-Alliance church
  • 1st Assembly of God - Haysville, Ks

Posted 23 February 2009 - 02:08 PM

There is another Alliance teacher from the past that has almost been forgotten and that is John A. MacMillan. Thanks to Paul King and his books "Genuine Gold" and "A believer with Authority" I have had the priveledge to be introduced to the works and writings of this man on the Authority of the Beleiver and Spiritual Warfare. You can find much of his teachings in the Alliance Weekly archives.

#11 Joe Izaguirre

Joe Izaguirre

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts
  • Location:Irving, TX
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Official Worker

  • I attend an Alliance church
  • Eden Road Community Church

Posted 09 September 2010 - 08:15 AM

I have noticed a return to AB Simpson, especially his teaching on the "deeper life." It is perhaps most noticeable in the fact that a recent article in dLife was on Sanctification, a topic which has deeper roots in Simpson than on Tozer. Nevertheless, if such a shift is occurring, it is not to slight Tozer. If any type of reformation within the denomination would occur, it is only logical that the denomination would return the denomination's founder. Tozer, for all his influence, was merely a participant in the movement which Simpson began.

So, the question at hand is not whether Simpson is being referred to in earnest over Tozer, but rather will Simpson's teaching on Sanctification will overwhelm the current views on sanctification which exist in the denomination currently. As someone mentioned, we have moved away from the Deeper Life conferences, but I have heard national office employees bemoan this fact, and so I wouldn't be surprised if the Alliance pushed for some implementation of a Deeper Life component in our current system of conferences.

Will the crisis return to its prominence in Alliance teaching? Will the gifts take a more elevated role? All these will take time to answer.

#12 Marvin Harrell

Marvin Harrell

    Advanced Member

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPip
  • 507 posts
  • Location:Colorado Springs
  • Interests:Content strategy; branding development; examining the why of what I believe as well as the how; raising 2 beautiful kids and loving God's gift of my wife; being the hands and feet of Jesus and therefore getting out of my comfort zone.
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a National Office Worker

  • I attend a non-Alliance church
  • First Presbyterian Church Colorado Springs

Posted 09 September 2010 - 11:24 AM

I have noticed a return to AB Simpson, especially his teaching on the "deeper life."...

So, the question at hand is ... will Simpson's teaching on Sanctification will overwhelm the current views on sanctification which exist in the denomination currently. As someone mentioned, we have moved away from the Deeper Life conferences, but I have heard national office employees bemoan this fact, and so I wouldn't be surprised if the Alliance pushed for some implementation of a Deeper Life component in our current system of conferences.

Will the crisis return to its prominence in Alliance teaching? Will the gifts take a more elevated role? All these will take time to answer.


I appreciate the term "crisis" for I feel that we are certainly seeing a desperate need for a clear understanding and experience of sanctification from Simpson's perspective. I myself am finding a deepening dissatisfaction with the status quo of modern "churchianity" and believe strongly that the concept and practice of deeper life theology is at its heart the desire of Jesus for his bride.

I also feel that at the heart of sanctification is an extreme death to self. Not one of my strong suits (talk about bemoaning!)...yet to love Jesus and be overwhelmed by him requires everything of me...even my life.
Marvin Harrell
Web Manager :: C&MA U.S.
www.cmalliance.org
Email me