Where is the C&MA on End Times Doctrine?

PreTrib Rapture Churches:

These are churches that have clear, doctrinal/ theological statements and historical commitments in support of the Rapture preceding the Tribulation followed by the Second Coming of Jesus Christ:

1. Independent Baptist Churches
2. Assemblies of God
3. Independent Bible Churches
4. Calvary Chapel
5. IFCA International Churches

PreTrib Rapture-Leaning Churches:

These are churches that have many members, pastors and teachers who support some version of the Premillennial view of the Rapture. However,these groups do not have clear doctrinal/theological statements about the Rapture> Tribulation> Second Coming sequence of End Time events, leaving room for other eschatological views through this doctrinal "loophole" (i.e. mid-Trib, post-Trib or no Rapture at all, but only a Second Advent).

1. Church of the Nazarene
2. Southern Baptist Convention
3. Evangelical Free Churches of America
4. Missionary Church USA
5. International Church of the Four Square Gospel
6. Church of God (Cleveland, TN)
7. Open Bible Churches
8. Christian and Missionary Alliance

Churches that Accommodate Multiple Views About End Times:

The following churches have people from a wide variety of eschatological perspectives (Amillennial, Preterist, Postmillennial, Classical Premillennial, Dispensationslist, etc.):

1. Churches of Christ
2. Wesleyan Church
3. Christian Church
4. Free Methodist Church USA
5. Church of God (Anderson, Indiana)

Generally Anti-Pre-Trib Churches:

You will most likely face open opposition or even ridicule for supporting the view that the Rapture precedes a literal Tribulation followed by the Second Coming of Jesus Christ in the following churches:

1. Presbyterian Church (USA)
2. United Church of Christ
3. American Baptist Churches USA
4. Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (ELCA)
5. Presbyterian Church of America
6. Episcopal Church
7. Roman Catholic Church
8. Disciples of Christ

Have I characterized the C&MA correctly/ fairly? If not, let me know. I would love to hear from you.

Or for that matter, have I given a fair description of the other denominations with regard to eschatology? Let me know, if you have the time, interest or inclination.

The C&MA Statement of Faith does mention the Second Coming being personal, visible, and premillennial. To read the entire Statement of Faith, go to the "about us" tab at the top-right. Then go to "Beliefs" and scroll down to "Statement of Faith."

Yes, I realize that. This is why I placed the C&MA where I did, noting, "These are churches that have many members, pastors and teachers who support some version of the Premillennial view of the Rapture." But the C&MA doctrinal statement does not make it clear that the C&MA subscribes to a Rapture before seven years of Tribulation. Thus, it leaves room for those who might take a Mid-Trib Rapture or even Post-Trib Rapture viewpoint. "Premillennial" by itself only means sometime before Christ's 1,000 year reign.

Alan,

 

I think some of the churches that "officially" adhere to the pre-trib view have members that subscribe to the other views. That has been my observation. I personally started my journey with a particular viewpoint, but modified my position early on. I continued for many years in the same denomination with an opposing viewpoint on the rapture. I knew of others who likewise held the same.

 

For some reason, I would venture to say that the opposite is not as true. That is, those in a Reformed denomination probably hold more closely to their "official" view.

I've gone back and forth with my viewpoint on the rapture over the years and am trying not to be too dogmatic about my position. I started out pre-trib and then became post-trib because I felt that lined up a little more with Scripture (as I understand it). However, recently I've been hearing some good arguments from my pastor for the pre-trib view. So I am pretty much open to both possibilities now but still lean a little more toward post-trib.  

One thing I find helpful is to throw out the word rapture and do a study on the "resurrection," the term the Bible uses.

One thing I find helpful is to throw out the word rapture and do a study on the "resurrection," the term the Bible uses.

 

How do you mean ADVRider? I like where this is going but am looking for more of what you mean. Is resurrection another word for the word rapture? As the word rapture doesn't appear in scripture are we all discussing the passage in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 when we are talking about rapture? Good stuff here!

How do you mean ADVRider? I like where this is going but am looking for more of what you mean. Is resurrection another word for the word rapture? As the word rapture doesn't appear in scripture are we all discussing the passage in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 when we are talking about rapture? Good stuff here!

Marvin,

 

There are many scriptural references to the resurrection. The concept of being "caught up" in 1 Thess. 4 that you reference, the classic Rapture passage, is in fact, one of many parallel passages speaking of the resurrection.  

 

Scholars of a particular camp often have a method of isolating passages that refer to the same thing, and then claim the passages are speaking of two (or more) different things. Thus, the many passages that clearly use the word, resurrection, are conveniently ignored and not compared with each other. If we look at all the references that speak of the "resurrection," we see some similarities emerge, rather than differences, and the exegesis that formerly yielded two different (events, in this case) now begins to show one event, just described many times over and over again.

 

Hope this helps a bit. If I can, I'll find some particular parallel verses.

I fully concur with this viewpoint.

I study using a lot of resources from Biblical scholar Michael Heiser and have correspondence with him; he refers to this as "Splitters" and "Joiners".

In other words he says that those looking for a pre trib view have to dissect passages and pull them from their context in order to make their argument, while those that hold to a post or amil view harmonize scripture.

The current CMA Statement of Faith reads "The second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ is imminent⁽³²⁾ and will be personal, visible, and premillennial.⁽³³⁾ This is the believer’s blessed hope and is a vital truth which is an incentive to holy living and faithful service.⁽³⁴⁾

 

^{The proposed change was to delete the word "premillennial." Has this already been done as of 2021?}

 

^{Why not delete "imminent"?  Only Premillennialism teaches that Christ's return is imminent.}

 

^{Why not delete the reference to Acts 1:8?  A spiritual return is not visible.}

 

^{Why not delete the scores of OT unconditional promises to national lsrael? In the OT "kingdom" referred to}

^{god's literal rule on earth.}

Send the Light, where souls are dying
In their darkness, gloom and night;
Haste O haste! the days are fleeting
And the hours how swift their flight! Fanny Crosby

 

The scriptures teach the imminent return of Christ, that we must be ready at all times for His coming, and that we should be urgent in sharing with others the wonderful news of the Lord Jesus. The beliefs that we hold about the sequence of events that must happen may vary, but a simple reading of Jesus' teachings and the words He spoke to John as recorded in Revelation must make us do all that we can to be ready and to bring as many as possible into His Kingdom before it is too late. "Look, I am coming soon!" It is the motivation to testify about Jesus and proclaim the Word of God.

Great Commission Fund: Allows servant girls in our city to hear the name of Jesus and to understand His love and sacrifice for them and that they too can be a part of His Kingdom.

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The Church of God (Anderson, Indiana)
does not embrace the man fictions which leave the Bible behind but believes that our doctrine, emphasis, and practice must be completely congruent to the doctrine and emphasis provided in the New Testament.

Everything that is said in the gospels and epistles about the second coming of Christ has to be considered in its totality, and the pieces fit together perfectly like a puzzle.

Jesus returns suddenly on the last day, the "day" of resurrection and final judgment. With him he will bring the souls of all those who have been in paradise. The time of his coming is not known; we will not have a thousand and seven years of advance notice. It could be today. Of course, since the world is round, that would be at all hours of the clock including night time depending on where one lives. But everyone on Earth will see him, including all mankind from all previous centuries and ages. In a twinkling of an eye all humanity who have ever lived are exposed before him as the entire material, physical, and molecular universe in this dimension of time, space, and matter which we now inhabit is dissolved instantaneously in fiery conflagration, passing away with a mighty roar. The Earth and starry heavens exist no more.

The overwhelming power and glory of the Son of God is on display as he reveals the final salvation of his people. The angels remove the wicked first from among the righteous and then all mankind are judged, whether good or evil.
The wicked are taken to their eternal punishment, and the righteous in Christ are taken with him as Jesus Christ delivers up his kingdom to the Father, in which we shall reign together with him forever.

There will be degrees of eternal shame, disgrace, and bitterness of regretful sorrow and punishment in hell, and there will be degrees of glory and reward in heaven.

God will do all things justly. There will be provision made for those who are classified as innocents, such as those who, although possessing souls, did not as infants or otherwise possess ability to make moral decisions resulting in spiritual death from sin, but the Bible does not give us any details about this; it is to be inferred.

Heaven will be not at all what people imagine but far more wonderful. We will have spiritual bodies and will not appear as we do in this life but will bear the image of the glorious Son of God as he is now, not as he appeared in human form as he ascended from the Mount of Olives.

As Jesus said, "The one who endures to the end will be saved.... Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of Life. "

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What is Jesus' word on the church and the doctrines of pre-, mid-, or post-tribulation of the church, His special kids?

 

It has been a rather slow night and I have been occasionally coming back to the C&MA website to see what people are thinking/talking about. For sure, there is not much going on and I ended up with this survey on the tribulation and what many of the denominations believe.

 

It is very sad to see where the modern, internet educated/influenced, mind is at, so many times.

 

Even on this topic, I would encourage a knowledge of such books as “Ecclesiastical History of the Church” by Eusebius Pamphilus , “The Wars of The Jews” by Flavius Josephus and “The Temples that Jerusalem Forgot” by Ernest L. Martin. These historical accounts would most likely influence your beliefs away from modern thinking.

 

Simply, I believe that down through the years, many people have believed the return of Jesus was going to happen very soon, including some of the writers of the New Testament.

 

On understanding the subject of the “tribulation” one might start with the KJ and Strong’s Dictionary. Computers and current software are very powerful study tools. If you do a search on the word ‘tribulation” you will find that 99% of the time it is a translation of the Greek word #G2347 which comes from G2346; and means pressure (literally or figuratively).

 

If you then do a search on G2347 you will find that it is not only translated as tribulation but also; afflicted, (-tion), anguish, burdened, persecution, and trouble. Bottom line is that tribulation, in the lives of believers, has been around for a very long time, in various locations, at various times. Read about modern martyrs and you will understand what I am saying.

 

Ok, so much for tribulation. What about the “great” tribulation; Something that comes from God and is worse than earthquakes, volcanoes, eclipses, tsunamis, etc..

Here is what Jesus told his disciples about His return, tribulations and His favorite children: Read the full accounts in Matthew 24 and Mark 13

 

Matthew 24:21-36  For then shall be ‘great tribulation’, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.  22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.  23  Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.  24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 

 

25  Behold, I have told you before.  26  Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.  27  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.  28  For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 

 

29  Immediately after the ‘tribulation’ of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:  30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and “they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven” with power and great glory. 

 

31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 

 

32  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:  33  So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 

 

34  Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.  35  Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.  36  But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

 

 

Mark 13:13-32  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall “endure” unto the end, the same shall be saved.  14  …….  …..19  For in those days shall be “affliction”, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.  20  And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but “for the elect's sake”, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. 

 

21  And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:  22  For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the “elect”. 

 

23  But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.  24  But in those days, after that “tribulation”, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,  25  And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.  26  And “then” shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 

 

27  And “then” shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. 

 

28  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:  29  So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.  30  Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.  31  Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 

 

32  But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

 

Revelation 7:13-14  And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?  14  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are “they which came out of great tribulation”, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

 

This is what I read in the Bible. So is Christ’s return pre, mid, or post tribulation?

 

For me and my family, tribulation obviously started with the crucifixion of Jesus Christ and it will not stop until God’s special children are taken home.

 

Most of you believe that Jesus, (the son,) and God, (His Father,) are the same. My understanding of the family unit requires a father who produces a son; and they cannot be the same. The following verse supports how God created the family unit and how that same family unit is used throughout the entire Bible.

 

….that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, “neither the Son,” but the Father.

 

Since the year 325 AD men of the church have had the Godhead messed up and do not understand the relationship between a father and a son. Is it any wonder that they cannot understand other Truths in the Word of God?

 

It is very clear that true believers are going to have go through ‘tribulation’. Yes, all of these uses of ‘tribulation’ are the Greek word G2347.

 

Paul tells believers, “Romans 12:12  Rejoicing in hope; patient in ‘tribulation’; continuing instant in prayer;”

 

Jesus said, “John 16:31-33  Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?  32  Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.  33  These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have ‘tribulation’: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.”

 

 

In conclusion, our Heavenly Father is so fantastic. If you have gotten this far and have not stopped because you consider me to be a heretic, that is out of his mind regarding the Godhead, I want to share, as briefly as I can, the relationship in scripture between the Godhead and the true believer and why it is critical.

 

First check out the verse above; John 16: 32 “Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.”

 

This verse clearly states that the Father is with Jesus and for that reason Jesus is not alone!! 1 + 1 = 2 individuals, two minds, two wills, etc.. The Father did not come here to suffer for us.

 

 In the spirit world or spiritual world, please consider the demonic, as described in the Word. I believe that the demon’s name, singular, was legion, or 1000. No matter, the 1000 demons went into a herd of pigs that ran off a cliff.

 

Also in the Word of God we are told of an individual that was set free from a demon, his house/heart was swept clean, but the individual did not fill his heart with a holy spirit. The demon came back to check out his old dwelling and found it empty. The Bible says that he, the demon, went out and found 6 more demons worse than himself and entered the individuals heart/body. It says that his later state was worse than it was at first.  That which is of the spiritual world, which we allow to dwell in us is critical to our lives for evil or for good!

 

Now if you would consider what Jesus said just before He died; “Father, why have you forsaken me?” Jesus had said, “If you have seen me you have seen the Father.” Jesus was not the Father, He was the Son who had the Father intimately living inside of His body, directing everything that Jesus did. Without the Father’s spirit within Him, Jesus says that He could do nothing.

 

You may be thinking that all this is crazy and just messing with words, but I want to show you why it is critical to our eternal deliverance.

 

It is all very clearly stated and explained in John chapters 13 -17.

 

However you see Jesus and the Father being one, in John 1:1-4, that is how Jesus says that He and a true believer are to be one. The true believer should be able to say honestly, similar to what Jesus said of the Father, “If you have seen me (the true believer), you have seen Jesus!”

 

The following verses describe and clearly state this Truth. You must be born again spiritually. You will become a new creation, with the spirit of Jesus living inside you.

 

John 14:20  At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

 

This “in-ness” is not just an idle belief or faith that I have something that isn’t demonstrated by the fruit or speech and actions of the life. An apple tree is known as an apple tree because of the fruit it “effortlessly” produces. It produces apples!! A person with Jesus Christ inside will produce the fruits of the Holy Spirit, effortlessly!!

 

John 15:1-10  I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.  2  Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.  3  Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.  4  Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.  5  I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.  6  If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

 

7  If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.  8  Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.  9  As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.  10  “If” ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

 

 

Finally, John 17 is Jesus’ final prayer, to the Father, regarding His followers and those who would believe in Him because of what his disciples taught.

 

Why is it so critical?

 

Because if we do not live this truth in reality, the Word of God says that the world will not believe that the Father sent Jesus from His presence in heaven, to live and die on this earth, as our example of what the heart of the Father longed for from humanity.

 

 

John 17:19-23  And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.  20  Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;  21  That they all may be “one”; as thou, Father, art “in” me, and I “in” thee, that they also may be one “in” us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 

22  And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be “one”, even as we are “one”:  23  I “in” them, and thou “in” me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.