Jump to content


Photo

The devil is a better theologian than any of us and is a devil still.


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Jason Linscombe

Jason Linscombe

    Advanced Member

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPip
  • 205 posts
  • Location:Black Forest, CO
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a National Office Worker

  • I attend an Alliance church
  • ClayHouse Alliance Church

Posted 02 March 2010 - 03:08 PM

The devil is a better theologian than any of us and is a devil still. -A.W. Tozer

booyah!
"The key to prayer is simply praying." -AW Tozer

#2 Don Johnson

Don Johnson

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts
  • Location:Rochester, NY
  • Interests:Trying to be more GOD focused, Working on things for Lent, Taking care of my family, Being on the computer, Stock Market, Babysitting my Grandson Handyman work around the house always, Fishing
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Layperson

  • I attend an Alliance church
  • Trinity Alliance Church

Posted 06 March 2010 - 07:31 PM

The enemy needs all the amunition he can get to present agruments to confuse you and keep you from getting close to GOD.

#3 Ronald Goetz

Ronald Goetz

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 254 posts
  • Location:California
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Retired Alliance Worker

  • I attend a non-Alliance church
  • First United Methodist Church of El Cajon

Posted 09 March 2010 - 08:45 AM

Don, what sorts of arguments have you heard that seem to keep you from getting close to the Lord?
Ron Goetz
San Diego, California

#4 Don Johnson

Don Johnson

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts
  • Location:Rochester, NY
  • Interests:Trying to be more GOD focused, Working on things for Lent, Taking care of my family, Being on the computer, Stock Market, Babysitting my Grandson Handyman work around the house always, Fishing
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Layperson

  • I attend an Alliance church
  • Trinity Alliance Church

Posted 09 March 2010 - 09:34 PM

Don, what sorts of arguments have you heard that seem to keep you from getting close to the Lord?

The arguments are always in the form of temptations. We as Christains are bombarded with this stuff all day in the world of men.

#5 Ronald Goetz

Ronald Goetz

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 254 posts
  • Location:California
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Retired Alliance Worker

  • I attend a non-Alliance church
  • First United Methodist Church of El Cajon

Posted 10 March 2010 - 06:24 AM

I'm reminded of how Satan tempted Jesus through the physical appetites (turn this stone into bread), dare-devil carelessness and danger (throw yourself down), and with status and power (I'll give you all this).
Ron Goetz
San Diego, California

#6 Ronald Goetz

Ronald Goetz

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 254 posts
  • Location:California
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Retired Alliance Worker

  • I attend a non-Alliance church
  • First United Methodist Church of El Cajon

Posted 16 March 2010 - 12:01 AM

So, the devil presents arguments in the form of theology. Interesting.

Since he's a supernatural being and all, the devil is not only better, he's actually the best theologian!

If that's true, that the devil is the best theologian, then what does that say about our own attempts to be good, better, or best theologians?

Since theology is so often a battle of wits between who knows the Bible best, who can meet argument with counter-argument, the element of winning is pretty important, the element of dominance. The best theologians are those with the greatest desire to dominate others. We know that's true when we see our example of who the best theologian is.

I wouldn't say that Jesus is a better theologian than the devil, but only because he isn't given that title. Among his major titles is Prophet. And there are Priest and King. And there are Messiah and Rabbi. But not Theologian.

In fact, in the gospels, the rough equivalent of theologians were the scribes. Theologian = Scribe = Jesus? No.

When Paul talks about "sound doctrine" it is always in behavioral terms, not in theological or theoretical terms.

Or how about this: A truly Christ-like ministry is going to focus on behavior, not theory.

We -- I -- need to stop retreating into "talk about Jesus" and do more obeying. That's easy to say, just because it's always easier to talk than to do.

And what was the "doing" that Jesus himself actually talked about? Giving cups of cold water to the thirsty. Visiting people in prison. Helping people beaten and left for dead. Giving people clothing and food.

It's interesting to compare the "doing" Jesus talked about and the "doing" that Jesus did.

Here's a list of things Jesus actually did.

  • He let a prostitute wipe his feet with her hair.
  • He took a little child into his lap while he was teaching.
  • He publicly scolded respected religious leaders to their face.
  • He publicly wept.
  • He violently disrupted approved religious profit-making.
  • He told lots of meaningful stories in the synagogues.
  • He told lots of meaningful stories in the Temple.
  • He told lots of meaningful stories on hills.
  • He healed the sick.
  • He raised the dead.
I saved the really hard stuff for the last two. God doesn't equip many of us for that.

But the rest--the rest are totally within the realm of possibility for most of us.

And the theologians? They were busy following him around trying to debunk his ministry.

Wait. Jesus actually was a theologian. His most important theology all dealt with who he himself was, and he pretty much kept that a secret. Jesus knew it was more important to live out the life that was logically and naturally rooted in who he really was than to teach about it. The same is true for us. We will do well to keep that personal theology about ourselves to ourselves and minister in the spirit of Christ. (Revelation 2:17)

BTW: Yes, I realize that what I've written can be called theology.
Ron Goetz
San Diego, California

#7 Don Johnson

Don Johnson

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts
  • Location:Rochester, NY
  • Interests:Trying to be more GOD focused, Working on things for Lent, Taking care of my family, Being on the computer, Stock Market, Babysitting my Grandson Handyman work around the house always, Fishing
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Layperson

  • I attend an Alliance church
  • Trinity Alliance Church

Posted 16 March 2010 - 06:39 PM

I'm reminded of how Satan tempted Jesus through the physical appetites (turn this stone into bread), dare-devil carelessness and danger (throw yourself down), and with status and power (I'll give you all this).

This is an example, but not really what I am talking about. Jesus was without sin & He was coming to die for the sins of the world. You can't really compare his tempation to ours. We have all sinned & have many things we have given into our whole lives. We make it easy in this world for Satan. His biggest problem is, out of such an extenise list, which tempation does he use. No joke. I belonged to another church & according to them, I was a good Christian. I really didn't believs that, but I thought I was much closer than I am. Now that I have been talking to God, I have found out that I have a long way to go. I feel ashamed of myself that after all this time I never really tried before, but it is never too late. My point is that that satan will use anything he can on you. He will twist the Bible's words to confuse you. If you are confused, you can't get close to God.
Now I guess the the idea here is that if the devil is so good at scripture, how do we know what is right. I would say that staying close to God is the best way. If he is guiding you in your life, that He can tell you when somethings wrong too.

#8 Don Johnson

Don Johnson

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts
  • Location:Rochester, NY
  • Interests:Trying to be more GOD focused, Working on things for Lent, Taking care of my family, Being on the computer, Stock Market, Babysitting my Grandson Handyman work around the house always, Fishing
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Layperson

  • I attend an Alliance church
  • Trinity Alliance Church

Posted 16 March 2010 - 06:49 PM

So, the devil presents arguments in the form of theology. Interesting.

Since he's a supernatural being and all, the devil is not only better, he's actually the best theologian!

If that's true, that the devil is the best theologian, then what does that say about our own attempts to be good, better, or best theologians?

Since theology is so often a battle of wits between who knows the Bible best, who can meet argument with counter-argument, the element of winning is pretty important, the element of dominance. The best theologians are those with the greatest desire to dominate others. We know that's true when we see our example of who the best theologian is.

I wouldn't say that Jesus is a better theologian than the devil, but only because he isn't given that title. Among his major titles is Prophet. And there are Priest and King. And there are Messiah and Rabbi. But not Theologian.

In fact, in the gospels, the rough equivalent of theologians were the scribes. Theologian = Scribe = Jesus? No.

When Paul talks about "sound doctrine" it is always in behavioral terms, not in theological or theoretical terms.

Or how about this: A truly Christ-like ministry is going to focus on behavior, not theory.

We -- I -- need to stop retreating into "talk about Jesus" and do more obeying. That's easy to say, just because it's always easier to talk than to do.

And what was the "doing" that Jesus himself actually talked about? Giving cups of cold water to the thirsty. Visiting people in prison. Helping people beaten and left for dead. Giving people clothing and food.

It's interesting to compare the "doing" Jesus talked about and the "doing" that Jesus did.

Here's a list of things Jesus actually did.

  • He let a prostitute wipe his feet with her hair.
  • He took a little child into his lap while he was teaching.
  • He publicly scolded respected religious leaders to their face.
  • He publicly wept.
  • He violently disrupted approved religious profit-making.
  • He told lots of meaningful stories in the synagogues.
  • He told lots of meaningful stories in the Temple.
  • He told lots of meaningful stories on hills.
  • He healed the sick.
  • He raised the dead.
I saved the really hard stuff for the last two. God doesn't equip many of us for that.

But the rest--the rest are totally within the realm of possibility for most of us.

And the theologians? They were busy following him around trying to debunk his ministry.

Wait. Jesus actually was a theologian. His most important theology all dealt with who he himself was, and he pretty much kept that a secret. Jesus knew it was more important to live out the life that was logically and naturally rooted in who he really was than to teach about it. The same is true for us. We will do well to keep that personal theology about ourselves to ourselves and minister in the spirit of Christ. (Revelation 2:17)

BTW: Yes, I realize that what I've written can be called theology.


Yes, if you talk about something too long, you'll probably never do it. I feel satan uses this with people that like to talk too much. I know!

#9 RuthAnn Nicholls

RuthAnn Nicholls

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 290 posts
  • Location:Pennsylvania
  • Gender:Female
  • I am a Layperson

  • I attend an Alliance church
  • Upper St Clair Alliance Church

Posted 21 July 2010 - 03:24 PM

So, the devil presents arguments in the form of theology. Interesting.

Since he's a supernatural being and all, the devil is not only better, he's actually the best theologian!

If that's true, that the devil is the best theologian, then what does that say about our own attempts to be good, better, or best theologians?

Since theology is so often a battle of wits between who knows the Bible best, who can meet argument with counter-argument, the element of winning is pretty important, the element of dominance. The best theologians are those with the greatest desire to dominate others. We know that's true when we see our example of who the best theologian is.

I wouldn't say that Jesus is a better theologian than the devil, but only because he isn't given that title. Among his major titles is Prophet. And there are Priest and King. And there are Messiah and Rabbi. But not Theologian.

In fact, in the gospels, the rough equivalent of theologians were the scribes. Theologian = Scribe = Jesus? No.

When Paul talks about "sound doctrine" it is always in behavioral terms, not in theological or theoretical terms.

Or how about this: A truly Christ-like ministry is going to focus on behavior, not theory.

We -- I -- need to stop retreating into "talk about Jesus" and do more obeying. That's easy to say, just because it's always easier to talk than to do.

And what was the "doing" that Jesus himself actually talked about? Giving cups of cold water to the thirsty. Visiting people in prison. Helping people beaten and left for dead. Giving people clothing and food.

It's interesting to compare the "doing" Jesus talked about and the "doing" that Jesus did.

Here's a list of things Jesus actually did.

  • He let a prostitute wipe his feet with her hair.
  • He took a little child into his lap while he was teaching.
  • He publicly scolded respected religious leaders to their face.
  • He publicly wept.
  • He violently disrupted approved religious profit-making.
  • He told lots of meaningful stories in the synagogues.
  • He told lots of meaningful stories in the Temple.
  • He told lots of meaningful stories on hills.
  • He healed the sick.
  • He raised the dead.
I saved the really hard stuff for the last two. God doesn't equip many of us for that.

But the rest--the rest are totally within the realm of possibility for most of us.

And the theologians? They were busy following him around trying to debunk his ministry.

Wait. Jesus actually was a theologian. His most important theology all dealt with who he himself was, and he pretty much kept that a secret. Jesus knew it was more important to live out the life that was logically and naturally rooted in who he really was than to teach about it. The same is true for us. We will do well to keep that personal theology about ourselves to ourselves and minister in the spirit of Christ. (Revelation 2:17)

BTW: Yes, I realize that what I've written can be called theology.


This is a wonderful post!

Reminding me of what Jesus did and said, I doubt he would be debating theology on any of the boards I have been a member of.

Ron, may I use your post, quote it on another board? I think it would make us all think.

Many don't realize, I think, that they make a goal of being 'right' with their interpretation of scripture. And speaking of how Jesus dealt with 'theologians' might help, as well as our own responsibilities to obey and follow through with what Jesus did.

Thanks so much for this post.

I want to live my life so that every morning
when I wake up Satan says, "Oh, no! She's awake!


#10 Brad Hicks

Brad Hicks

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 21 posts
  • Location:Hilliard, Florida
  • Gender:Male
  • I am a Church Worker

  • I attend an Alliance church
  • First Alliance Church of Hilliard

Posted 03 August 2010 - 05:46 AM

You can't really compare his tempation to ours. We have all sinned & have many things we have given into our whole lives.


I'd have to disagree with that statement. We actually CAN compare His temptation to ours. We see this in Hebrews 4:15. This let's us know that we have a God that knows what we're going through and can relate to our human temptations.

"For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way just as we are- yet was without sin."(NIV)
  • Tkulp likes this