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Posted by notsofast , 07 December 2017 · 806 views

This is kind of a weird first entry, but I guess it just is something that I don't completely understand. I have noticed that a lot of churches are starting to call lay people pastors without any kind of ordination. Don't get me wrong, I don't think you have to have a title to minister. My concern lies in the fact that it brings down credibility. Has any one else experience a church that has a "youth pastor" without ordination. Do we have head pastors that don't have ordination? Thanks for listening/reading.

Here is a portion of the letter from Paul to Timothy (Amplified) that came to my mind.


"Let the elders who perform the duties of their office well be considered doubly worthy of honor [and of adequate financial support], especially those who labor faithfully in preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain, and again, The laborer is worthy of his hire. [Deu. 25:4; Luke 10:7]"

"Listen to no accusation [presented before a judge] against an elder unless it is confirmed by the testimony of two or three witnesses. [Deu. 19:15]  As for those who are guilty and persist in sin, rebuke and admonish them in the presence of all, so that the rest may be warned and stand in wholesome awe and fear.

"I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the chosen angels that you guard and keep [these rules] without personal prejudice or favor, doing nothing from partiality.  Do not be in a hurry in the laying on of hands [giving the sanction of the church too hastily in reinstating expelled offenders or in ordination in questionable cases], nor share or participate in another man's sins; keep yourself pure."

"Drink water no longer exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent illnesses."

"The sins of some men are conspicuous (openly evident to all eyes), going before them to the judgment [seat] and proclaiming their sentence in advance; but the sins of others appear later [following the offender to the bar of judgment and coming into view there].  So also, good deeds are evident and conspicuous, and even when they are not, they cannot remain hidden [indefinitely]."  1 Timothy 5:17-25




For what ever it may be worth, here are my thoughts.


Things may sometimes be done without a real knowledge of the heart. People are sometimes rather good actors. On the other hand a good and dedicated man can change, like Saul, in the Old Testament. God regretted that He had made Saul king.


The Apostles, when they replace Judas, used prayer along with their own understanding and evaluation of the men that had established credibility by the dedication of their lives as they had faithfully walked with Christ from His baptism until His death. From those they picked two, then they left the final choice up to God, by casting lots.


"Thus one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time the Lord Jesus associated with us, beginning from his baptism by John until the day he was taken up from us one of these must become a witness of his resurrection together with us." So they proposed two candidates: Joseph called Barsabbas (also called Justus) and Matthias."


Then they prayed, "Lord, you know the hearts of all. Show us which one of these two you have chosen to assume the task of this service and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place."


"Then they cast lots for them, and the one chosen was Matthias; so he was counted with the eleven apostles."   Acts 1:21-26


In our day I would say that the heart of the Word of God (the mind and heart, intent of God) is totally missed. Some of the apostles were uneducated fishermen trained by Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit alone. In our day, much is laid on a college or seminary education, the quality of learning. It was true even in Paul's day also, come to think of it; humanly speaking he spoke of sitting at the feet of the greatest teacher of his day.


A person can follow the man's doctrinal tracks, fulfilling all the ordination and education requirements, but never really have an intimate relationship with the Spirit of Christ. The Bible training can make men into suburb actors, just like in the movies. Only the indwelling Holy Spirit can make a Godly man, from the inside out.


The only way that I see, in the Word, for evaluating a minister, is by the fruit of the tree, as evaluated over several seasons of fruit production. What comes out of  the fruit when it is unexpectedly squeezed or crushed, tells the type and quality of fruit.


Personally, as I review my own life, I was placed in positions of authority when my heart was not mature in Christ. The first part of my life, I was sincere, but in reality a hypocrite, an actor.


I was convicted of hypocrisy, repented, turned to the Holy Spirit and came clean.


Then there were many years of maturing, but I always filled any, in church positions, to the best of my maturity in Christ. That maturity has had nothing to do with man's selection. They picked the best that they had available at the time. My maturity happened over the span of many years as I obeyed the Holy Spirit and spent quality time, learning at his feet.


I still have not reached full maturity, in my own eyes.

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A church member from another state was telling me they avoid calling each other brother/sister because to do so infers a certain obligation as one would have for a brother or sister. I've been to churches where the elderly were called elder routinely whether they held a position or not. 

I remember a time when one called an ordained minister Reverend, but could use pastor for someone not so ordained but was generally the  minister of the church.  In the Alliance you probably know we have official workers that are not ordained in the formal sense but some do lead.  

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