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Troubled Mind in Troubled Times and Troubled Men


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#1 Candice

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 06:53 PM

I have a burden I'd like to share.  And, I could have predicted this burden would eventually come given the circumstances...

 

My husband and I host a neighborhood bible study which includes ourselves, a neighbor family with four kids (who don't always come) and a neighbor woman who is 50 or so and was just saved about a year ago.  We have attended at least four churches over 11 years of being in Wyoming and are fed up with the seeker sensitive on the one end or the replacement, cessationalists on the other end.  No in between here.

 

We began with our self-appointed teacher (I mean no negativity saying it that way) who suggested we are in the last days (the very last days) and he had a study in Revelation that corresponds to the feasts and blood moons.  He basically says he knows when the tribulation will begin, etc.

 

OK, interesting. But, I was, for my part alone, clear from the outset that I don't believe in date-setting as many, many have done in the past, but we 'd listen to what he had to say.

 

We've been in Revelation since Spring and are in Ch. 21.  He seems to  be drawing it out. Really drawing it out.  Many side topics come into play like New World Order, prepping, etc. etc.  Many of you can imagine without me filling in every detail.  Every Sunday ends with a prepper meeting.  Now, I'm not against this because we live where you can get into a bind and be snowed in for days, if not weeks, and it's happened.  I keep extra and my husband has over the year started major prepping in response to our leader's admonitions.  OK.. Fine.  My husband bought an assault rifle.  I have no plans to shoot my way through the end, killing others to the end of self-preservation.  I would have to count on the Lord's daily promptings.

 

So, a couple of weeks ago, my husband brought up where we'd  be going in the Bible once we're done with Revelation.  The teacher became defensive when I suggested balance, teaching the whole counsel of God and that, since we have a new believer, we might read Ephesians or Romans and that her position in Christ would be most valuable for her to know.  If she doesn't know where she rests in Christ, all the prepping won't matter if and when hell breaks loose.  I said I think there's so much in the Word we could read and that I felt burdened with so much of the prophetic and end times stuff over the past 10 months or so.  I said I felt overwelmed with the details of all the yucky stuff that would happen and was not restful.  The teacher was so offended that he looked angry and said "I told you this is my thing to teach.  It's what I believe is important".  My husband thought he was really defensive. 

 

So, my hubby says, let's find a church.  I say stick it out and be honest, urging him to have a passion to "teach", but not a "need" to be "heard" which is how I'd sum up the core of the problem.

 

Today, I suggested that some of those people being addressed in specific places in the New Testament are Jews primarily, but that it applies to us, he got angry and told me I was WRONG.  OK.  There are no Jews and no Gentiles any longer. I pointed to a few examples where I believe Paul is talking to Jews (in Romans or Hebrews) and in James, but got knocked off my pedestal I guess.  I guess I was wrong in thinking that James, Peter, Paul, et al had evangelistic outreaches to different groups -- Jews and/or Gentitles?  Sometimes they're talking to Jews more specifically, but we can take it on for ourselves too.  NO NO. NO.

 

I really feel bad about this whole thing.  I guess I know the end is coming, but I feel judged when we've not purchased the $1,000 pair of walkie talkies that reach 40 miles. What's wrong with us anyway? My husband gave me a great deal of cash which is hidden in the car.  He told me if hell breaks loose, to try to go to the store, buy everything I can with the cash if possible.  The teacher told him not to tell me this.  That I should not go to the store.  That we should have all the food stored by now.  It's too late.  I told him politely that if that's what he asks me to do, I'll try to do it. 

 

 It seems like its getting ugly, and no matter how honest I am in just saying what I believe, i.e. we should study other scripture, I get shot down.  My husband shoots me down in the group, but at home agrees which makes me pretty frustrated.  He's always kind of a cameleon. 

 

My friend says no matter what book we study next, ie. Song of Solomon, this teacher will always swing it around to the same topic. She says it's what always happens.  So, I hate to abandon these people, but would like to keep urging to balance in the whole counsel of God.

 

What would you all do?



#2 ADVRider

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 10:10 PM

It sounds like you nailed it in the beginning when you described this person as "self-appointed." Even if he has pure motives, he has no place being controlling. God appoints no man to that position over others. I really can't see how that environment can edify, regardless of topic. What would I do? I'd pray, but also consider politely parting ways. There has to be mutual edification, or it's a sickly part of the body. This bible study cannot just be for his "need" as you put it. He might have to get over himself a bit.
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#3 Richard12

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 12:38 PM

I have never responded to this site before, although I have followed it with great interest. I am a follower of Christ and have many books written by A.W. Tozer hence the site following.

 

This post struck me. I believe we are to be wise and prudent as to our continual maintenance and survival while here, but to go and prepare to be last man standing? I am not known to be a pacifist but I would personally endeavor to not put myself in a position of drawing weapons. Has anyone read what happened to the early Christians? They suffered for Christs sake enduring......... I would rather go to meet the Lord and explain my being early because someone killed me rather than to have to explain why I killed someone. I hope this helps on some level.



#4 Danny-deeperlifehaven.com

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 06:45 AM

Hi Candice, I'm sorry for your situation and will be praying for you and it so please keep us updated. Prepping makes sense, here in KY there was an area that was without power for 3 weeks a couple of winters ago, I'm sure many of those people are more prepared now. The biggest problem with prepping the way your "Bible Group" member is doing it is that we are seldom prepping for our neighbors but instead for ourselves, thus the need for assault weapons. This is selfish love and not the spirit of Christian charity. I too would love a bible study, fortunately I have a good local (yet very small) church but love the feel of a home fellowship. Maybe it needs to be cancelled if things don't change, you'll have to hear from the Lord on that.



#5 radar

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:18 AM

Yes I know this type of person, he sounds Nicolation to me; Revelation 2:6, where Jesus told the church of Ephesus, "But this thou hast [in your favor], that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate."  The name "Nicolaitans" is derived from the Greek word nikolaos, a compound of the words nikos and laos. The word nikos is the Greek word that means to conquer or to subdue. The word laos is the Greek word for the people. It is also where we get the word laity. When these two words are compounded into one, they form the name Nicolas, which literally means one who conquers and subdues the people. It seems to suggest that the Nicolaitans were somehow conquering and subduing the people. That is what this man sounds like he is doing with this being "my thing."

 

Jesus says by thier fruits we will know them; Galatians 5:22-23 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. I do not hear much of that in this situation.

 

It sounds to me that this teacher is young in the faith even if he may be middle aged in years and has gotten off track of the main thing, to go out and preach the Gospel and make disciples of all nations. Being prepared is good, but only if you have enough to share with others who would be without. It sounds very selfish on his part. Years ago I became fixated on studying prophecy to the exclusion of not being able to rightly divide the word of truth. I became fearful and anxious. Perfect love casts out fear.

 

I agree with you in that you have a new Christian and there should be a practical bible study to help this person develop a strong realtionship with Jesus.I would not want to be accounted a stumbling block for one weaker in faith by abusing the freedom in Christ that we have. Others must be considered above our own interests. That is agape godly love.


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"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven."


#6 Charles Miles

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:57 AM

Candice,

Your situation with this "teacher" is troublesome, but not unique. He seems to be "hung up" on the end times and all the tribulation that is promised.  I know that "teaching" is his "thing", but once in a while, the teacher needs to sit and be taught.  We all know that the Bible is the true word of God, so all these terrible things will come to pass whether one is "prepped" or not, but my question has to be....why does a child of God, who has been promised eternal life, who knows God loves him, and places all his trust in the Lord for the end times, as well as all other time, worry and fret about what his Father is going to do at a particular time here on earth? Here`s my idea about "end times"......We need to be "prepped" for the next 5 minutes, prepare to meet our Father during the next instant, obey His commandments, love our fellow man, and be about the things He said we should be about.....not fretting about the end times, as if we could do anything about them anyway.  We need to be ready and "prepped" to meet our Lord now, today, every day, not prepare to live out some terrible earth-ending event that we don`t even know when it will be. I know when today is, and tomorrow will take care of itsself under the authority of the Lord.

 

What difference does it make if the end times are tomorrow, next week, next year, or 100 years from now?  Why are you not ready to meet Him today?  Do people who fret and worry about end times seem insecure about salvation, confused about their standing with the Lord, or unsure what to do with a piece of information they found while reading Revelations? Certainly creating anxiety and panic among new christians is the wrong thing to do.

 

Sorry about the long rambling post.  Just that these things are not something a mature christian should worry about. "the righteous shall live by faith..", not fear.

 

Yours in Christ Jesus,

 

Charlie


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#7 Kevin Blankenship

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 09:08 AM

Candace, there is a statement you made.......about the
Whole Council of God.  I think that is what is important.  I feel a sense of urgency, but Matthew 6:33 and there-bouts talks about God furnishing what we need to survive. We ARE worth more than MANY sparrows.  If I might be so boold.....the self-appointed teacher seems a bit out of balance. And I say this with absolutely no malice.  Because I"M out of balance. But I am rushing to get there (balanced).

   The very fact that you are raising these questions  gives me a reassurance that you are, indeed, quite concerned about the Entire Council of God.  Not ONLY the parts that deal with end times. The way Paul was preaching, he considered that HE was in the end time group........at times.

   Me personally, I believe in the imminent return of Christ. That Jesus could come at any time. To be watchful. I don't know, I am just human, but I have this urgency that 'our redemption draweth nigh'.      I would LOVE to open this large home to a home church.  But we would be VERY careful about someone appointing themselves to be teacher. In fact, as soon as someone approached me and said...."I would like to be the teacher"........They would likely be disqualified just because of that.  A humble servant. One that is SURE that they are NOT called to teach......THEY are the one that would likely be chosen (depending upon their passion for Christ and knowledge of the entire council of God. They would likely win my heart.  Okay, all of the above? what I just wrote? please consider the source. I wanted to comment on this thread but I really don't have a clue what i am talking about. I have my life simplified to this ONE thing: I want to come to the point to where loving Jesus is my NUMBER ONE obsession.  There, I should have just said that and trashed the rest of what I said. I re-read it and I'm not capable of putting together a cohesive thought.  I would be the one that Paul called the 'weak believer'.  Really. Not trying to sound all humble.  But it's a great thread and I look forward to many more replies!!!!!!



#8 Kevin Blankenship

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 09:14 AM

What Charles said.  I second that. And third it.



#9 Candice

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 12:39 PM

Thank you all for your responses; they're all great.

 

We just can't seem to get into a groove here in this little corner of Wyoming. There seems to be an insanely unbalanced tendency towards what I think is "self-reliance" v. reliance on the Lord.  There's an independent spirit here to be sure.  Not spirit meaning literal spirit, just tendencies of the place. 

 

I won't go out of this life to the next shooting people.  I know where I'm going.

 

Good points all of you.  It is really a matter, as Charles states, of being ready for the next moment. 

 

Thank you

Love,

Candice


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#10 chipped china

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 04:29 AM

I too really enjoyed this thread. I don't really have anything to add except that I'm proud of you Candice for not having a major meltdown with your teacher and more importantly your husband. The husband is the head of the wife and you've been a good example to me. Keep listening to Jesus and He will show you the Way.



#11 Fireweed Trekker

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 09:05 AM

A good book is "Churches that abuse" by Ronald Enroth.

 

http://www.apologeti...use-online-book


B?  & C?
 


#12 Charles Miles

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 10:49 AM

Candice, How is your Bible study goup going? As I read and study over the past several days, your situation in that group, and the "teacher" were/are on my heart. It become clearer that most, if not all, the extreme preparations for "the end times" are human attempts to maybe make the terrible things prophesied in Rev easier for man. I am reminded of the wedding feast where the father of the groom invited many to come dine, but none came. He then invited all the scruffy people from the street and they came. Then there was the man who was found at the wedding feast but was dressed in the wrong clothing! He was cast out into the darkness,bound and punished. Because he wasn`t dressed correctly? Yes! He probably wore the best stuff he had, or could afford, so why? The wedding guests are PROVIDED robes to wear by the father of the groom, wedding robes, FREE wedding robes....and he didn`t have one on. The father was enraged about the insult of someone attending without the finest wedding robe, that was free, and HE provided.

How about we wear our robe of righteousness provided by the Father through the sacrifice of Jesus? It is free! It is the proper dress for the wedding feast of the Lamb. Here`s the biggie....if one does not have that robe on, they are not going to be at that event. Put it on, come on in, you will be welcome. Leave it off or wear your own stuff and you will not make it.....no matter how much prepping you do, or how many walkie-talkies you have. My suggestion is that since we don`t know the date of the supper, why not go ahead and put the robe on now? It`s free and it will last for eternity.

Praise God for who He is and what He has done for us,

Charlie
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#13 Candice

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 06:19 PM

Charlie, thanks for asking and funny that you asked now!  hah hah!

 

What you wrote up there is so true and really beautiful. Thank you cause I need reminding too.

Today we met as a group for the first in about three weeks.  Some folks had the flu, etc.  My husband told me meeting prior to meeting this morning that he would say we were going to finish up with the last chapter of Rev. this morning and that he (my husband) would like to select another book like Romans to study.  I didn’t hear the conversation my husband had with them while I was fussing like Martha in the kitchen as usual being a dope.  He told me afterward most of what was said.
 
When I sat down, I opened my bible and asked where we had left off in the chapter.  The teacher really seemed irked. Kind of came in seething. He said that last time we met I had argued with him over scripture.  I said I knew that.   He acknowledged that it was only that time. I told him I thought that he was taking scripture out of context and that it sounded like he was saying we’re saved by faith and works. But, I know he does not believe that. I just stressed to be careful to understand who is being addressed in the passage and why, etc was important. That did not go over well with him. My neighbor lady friend was glaring at me. I admitted openly that I could be argumentative and it wasn’t the first time and that I meant no harm to insinuate that he believed in salvation by works. My husband and neighbors said that I made no sense to them when I was arguing with the teacher. I know it was confusing because I was being subtle hoping he would see what he was doing and not need me to point it all out. I didn't say what I meant. I was an idiot. I remember having another bible study teacher tell me that. He then proceeded to say I was contentious. Yes, I can be but am not sorry for challenging him, yet women ought to be silent. I struggle when something is said that I don’t believe is right.

 

I had told my neighbor that I was tired of all the prepping talks because they seemed to be boasting about how prepared some are and some aren't.  She really took offense with me, saying I was implying she was doing that.  For a year, he has brought in conspiracies, etc. and I’d like to stick with the text and I don’t believe in predicting. I also don’t see myself having to agree to arm up to the hilt with guns and food and maybe that is overwhelming for me but no one seems to heed my requests. They seem to just get offended.

 

Then, my husband showed him a book he’d read by Chuck Smith on the tribulation which details Chuck's reasons for his view being pre-trib. The teacher said if Chuck or others are pre-trib to have nothing to do with them. He said if someone says they are pre-trib, he will have nothing to do with them. I told him he went too far on this.  (Yes, I should have kept my big mouth shut.  He said they are false teachers. Of course, I said, you’ve predicted the start of the tribulation to begin in the summer of this year. If that does not happen, will we not extend grace to you and forgive you? (mind you, I’m not listening to anything he says for the past few months in the bible study). He said yelling “You have a contentious spirit”. I noticed he kept looking at my husband when he’d say it. He said it a couple of time.  He inched his way to saying he was offended that I challenged him a few weeks ago to my having a contentious spirit.

 

At that point, I stood up and calmly said you’ve gone too far. You are implying by your words that I have a demonic spirit. He said I’m twisting his words and he and my neighbor get up to leave, glaring at me and shaking their heads. During this time, I did not raise my voice at all, but my son could hear him yelling (and I mean yelling) at me in his bedroom. I said I forgive all this. Even Paul and Barnabus and Mark(?) were arguing and disagreeing, but kept the bond of fellowship. Could we just agree to disagree? I just think you can’t accuse others of being false teachers who disagree on pre-trib stuff. That is not a major. So, Chuck Smith is in hell? I mean what is going on here?

So, that’s the update Charlie. More words than I care to share, but you get the idea !! I guess I should take my own advice from scripture and be the woman who is silent in the church.  Don't want to be angry.  I'm not.  But, my neighbors are mad as hornets.  I should have kept my big mouth shut. 

:(



#14 Charles Miles

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 07:13 AM

Hmmmm, really sounds like a prayerful, thoughtful group who queitly study the scriptures to learn of the majesty of God. Wow! I`m not sure what I would do in your situation, but I would probably stop the arguments, ask for slilence, and see if everyone would hold hands and pray together that whatever spirit of dissention that was present, would leave. A Bible study is certainly not a place to expound one`s political agenda, or or get on a "Johnny one note" tear. Invite Holy Spirit into the group, light a candle to signify His presence, and as long as the candle is lit, everyone knows HE is there. The rights and feelings of all should be respected because all of the group are supposed to be christians.

I continue to pray for your group and I feel you are about to have a breakthrough here.

Your brother in Christ,

Charlie
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#15 chipped china

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 01:03 AM

Candice, I have confidence that the Lord is showing you His truth in this refining event. Anyone that tells you the tribulation is going to start this summer is not someone you want teaching you. I tend to be a pretriber but it's not a hill I'm going to die on and I certainly take issue with someone who aligns me as false in my beliefs. It's all about our relationship with Jesus Christ and trusting Him with all our being. 

There is a time for being submissive and a time to be bold. We are all one in Jesus. I know He has you!


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