4 replies to this topic

[childofrevival]

When I was invited to become a C&MA pastor, I was thrilled to read Tozer's book on the life of A B Simpson - Wingspread - and to discover therein the four-fold Gospel, especially its emphasis on the Deeper Life.

At church this morning I was thrilled again as I read our (Canadian) President's comments - "More".  I believe they are worth repeating so present them here:

 

"Several months ago I was speaking at a conference, sharing my passion to see our Alliance family embrace its heritage as a Christ-centered, Spirit-empowered and Mission-focused movement.

One of my strong appeals was calling people to experience a fresh encounter with the Holy Spirit. Afterwards, as I was exiting the conference room, a young man hiding in the shadows grabbed my arm and pulled me into a quiet, secluded place.  The look on his face showed a level of desperation.   He spoke quietly but with an inner hunger that was almost palpable.  "I don't think I have been filled with the Holy Spirit," he declared.  "I have been serving as a pastor for ten years but my heart is empty and I am longing for More"

 

Arnold Cook, a past president of the C&MA wrote, in the book Much More there is this helpful reminder:  "Many believers stopped with the experience, the step, the act (of conversion) and have never gone on to maturity.  They have lived a life of spiritual poverty and defeat, always under the suspicion that there was More!"   The Alliance has declared boldly that there is MORE!

 

The Apostle Paul gave a compelling invitation to "Keep on being filled with the Holy Spirit...." (Ephesians 5:18).   Jesus declared,  "If anyone is thirsty, let him come and drink.   Whoever believes in me as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." (John 7.:37-38)

 

Simpson affirmed this:   "I thought I was filled, but I not filled to overflowing, to overwhelming, baptized in, immersed in the Holy Spirit, not just the ocean in the bottle, but the bottle in the ocean."

 

I wonder if our fear of fanaticism has kept us from entering into a deeper and fuller expression of the Holy Spirit.   Simpson affirmed that the Alliance has been given "a message steeped in the Holy Spirit, a message that leads men and women to seek the fullness of the Holy Spirit without exaggeration, without fanaticism, without unscripturalness of any kind, all that power can be and yet with the spirit of a sound mind."

 

Use whatever term you will - filling of the Spirit, fullness of the Spirit, baptism of the Spirit, deeper life, higher life, fuller life, victorious life.   The key reality is that God calls us into a defining experience where we encounter a fresh outpouring of CHRIST-REVEALING, HEART-REVIVING, SIN-DEFEATING AND BOLDNESS-PRODUCING power!

 

I love the attitude of Simpson who affirmed,  "At all times my spirit has been open to God for anything He might be pleased to reveal or bestow."

 

In my own personal time of listening to God, I hear the invitation of the Spirit calling us as the Alliance:   Deeper, fuller, richer - a vast reservoir of my power and my glory is available.  Tell them to come!   Tell them the time is now!   One baptism is not enough.   There is a fullness that I long to give.   Live in me.  Receive my breath of life.  It is the only hope for true renewal.

 

The young pastor fell to his knees and raised his hands to the sky.   I laid my hand on his forehead and prayed that he would receive a mighty baptism of the Holy Spirit.   He began to cry and I heard him praying over and over again,  "Come, Holy Spirit!"   All of a sudden he jumped to his feel, his face beaming with joy.   A new anointing of the Holy Spirit had come.   He had entered into the More!

 

I know I am writing to many who are longing for more.   You have had an encounter with the Holy Spirit but not to overflowing or overwhelming.   You have the ocean in the bottle but not the bottle in the ocean.   Today ....I dare you to respond to the call:   "There is MORE!"   Come out of the shadows; surrender all that you are to God and ask for More!

 

Dave Hearn,   President, C&MA

[ADVRider]

I wonder if our fear of fanaticism has kept us from entering into a deeper and fuller expression of the Holy Spirit.   Simpson affirmed that the Alliance has been given "a message steeped in the Holy Spirit, a message that leads men and women to seek the fullness of the Holy Spirit without exaggeration, without fanaticism, without unscripturalness of any kind, all that power can be and yet with the spirit of a sound mind."

 

Thanks for the thread, childofrevival. From what David Hearn said about the filling of the Holy Spirit, this paragraph stood out to me more than the rest. I do heartily agree with his (and your) admonition that we all need to be filled with the Spirit.

 

Anyway, he says, "I wonder if our fear of fanaticism has kept us from entering into a deeper and fuller expression of the Holy Spirit." Not being raised a Christian in the Alliance, I wonder sometimes (even now), what the C&MA view actually is on the filling of the Spirit, and if it is a univerally held view across the denomination. I once had a conversation with a leader at the office, and he suggested it was not, and like Pres Hearn, was concerned it had become a neglected emphasis.  

 

But as someone who was weaned as a Christian in a Pentecostal setting, I wonder if the fear of fanaticism mentioned by Hearn is based on a view that thinks the people who really emphasize the filling of the Spirit is those other people, the fruits, flakes and nuts, if you will. If this is the case, to the degree that Alliance people see this type of expression to be in error, they will avoid it and associate the filling of the Spirit with fanaticism possibly. I think maybe that for many in the Alliance, their point of reference for the filling of the Spirit is the Pentecostals and Charismatics, not the Alliance itself, and for them, it is a negative one. Possibly what Pres. Hearn is saying too, in a roundabout way. I also know there are many in the Alliance who are "pentecostal" in practice as well.

 

Anyway, in my experience in the Pentecostal setting, there was generally no fear of fanatisicm, because we were taught the manifestation or expression of the Spirit was normative for all Christians. So rather than thinking it strange, we took the filling of the Spirit and His expression through His Body as something to desire and expect. In the end, what I think some in the Alliance  might really be leery of is the expression of the Spirit. It's unfortunate IMO, if that is so. The Spirit who indwells also desires to manifest Himself through us, His body. We cannot have the filling of the Spirit and say we do not want the expression if only because we have been taught that could look weird. I will admit that I have been in some charismatic circles and meetings that have definitely crossed way over the line and where people have labored in the flesh, trying to manipulate God into doing something. But I also have learned that the ways of God are oftentimes beyond my limited human thinking. Many times, I've seen weird things and it was God! It just comes with the territory of being in the presence of our supernatural God. Jesus spit on the ground and rubbed mud in a man's eyes. If a modern televangelist did that, would we be incredulous? "That's very weird. And highly unscriptural too!" I get it; Are there abuses and fleshly displays galore? No doubt, but we do not have to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Remember, Paul had to correct the "most gifted" church at Corinth in the first generation, but he never told them it was the gifts that were off; it was them. We do not need to be afraid, even for what we do not understand. If we could just relax and receive, the Holy Spirit can do what He does best; and that is express Himself through a people who are filled with Him. I think even A.B. was in the company of some serious holy roller action in his day.

 

After reading, I realize some here could think when I use the terms, "expression," "manifestation" or "pentecostal," I am referring to the gift of tongues. I am actually referring to all the gifts of the Spirit as found in 1 Cor. 12 as being valid for today's church, and part of the expression of the Holy Spirit. Just thought I should make this clear.

 

One little caveat though. It's easy to criticize certain expressions as "not being scriptural." There can certainly be expressions that are clearly not of God, but sometimes, there are things that God might do that there is not a specifc verse for, or against. We know in part and we prophesy in part, so discernment is still called for. I do not believe everything recorded in the book of Acts, for example, are the only things the Holy Spirit did. People were healed by Peter's shadow and many signs and wonders were done "by the hands of the apostles" in Acts five. I wonder if some of those might have been seen as strange by us today. Point being, if these were not recorded in scripture and we saw the same things at church, for example, we might run out the back door. I am not trying to be judgmental; I've criticized things as not being from God when they were and vice versa. It's nice to want our experience to be super clean and tidy for our mindset, but if we default there, the supernatural God may pass by and we might not know it. Let's as a people of God take faith-filled risks with the filling of the Spirit. Jesus, the same yesterday, today and forever.

 

A little clairification too. Lest anyone get the idea that I would solely or even primarily associate the filling of the Spirit with the gifts, I do not. I believe in the Spirit-controlled, Spirit-led life, where as a Christian, I have died and am resurrected with Christ in the heavenly places. I no longer belong to myself and while not humanly perfect and still in the body, I take my "orders" from the boss and live in the Spirit--yes, I have voting rights but He has veto authority. There is no longer any life in the flesh; it is dead and I reckon it to be so. Hence, the paradox of the Christian life where Paul said, God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise. Giving up our life to take His yoke is the crux of the Spirit-filled life, and this is what I hear childofrevival crying out for. Yes, it is the only way. So, just to say, the gifts of the Spirit part of my post is to address what might be a fear of fanaticism, but we should not shy away from them either. I don't really think we have to worry about them, because if a Christian truly follows God by the Spirit (meaning they have died and are dying to the flesh daily), they will be misunderstood and possibly be called fanatic just for that (even by other Christians). Jesus was misunderstood too, so we are in good company when we follow Him. BTW, little secret; this is the normal Christian life, not the "weird" or "extreme" one. Take up the call to follow Him wholeheartedly and your joy, love and spiritual understanding will deepen. And remember, it's not supposed to make sense to your mind; it will blow your mind!

[Meema]

"Remember, Paul had to correct the "most gifted" church at Corinth in the first generation, but he never told them it was the gifts that were off; it was them. We do not need to be afraid, even for what we do not understand. If we could just relax and receive, the Holy Spirit can do what He does best; and that is express Himself through a people who are filled with Him."

 

I do not see how that could have been said any better. The modern mega church does not seem to understand about the Holy Spirit. The object nowadays is to get people, especially the youths, to God via emotion and hyped up energy.  I have seen this same principle at work in fundamental churches as well though - using what I refer to as Christian Mysticism. It appeals to the "feeling" part of the psyche. It's exciting and enticing to think about having an 'extra knowledge' and being endowed with extra power. But it isn't the Holy Spirit power and the snare comes for lack of discernment to see which is which.

 

For Him,

Meema

[Julie Daube]

"So, just to say, the gifts of the Spirit part of my post is to address what might be a fear of fanaticism, but we should not shy away from them either. I don't really think we have to worry about them, because if a Christian truly follows God by the Spirit (meaning they have died and are dying to the flesh daily), they will be misunderstood and possibly be called fanatic just for that (even by other Christians)."

Well said, John! My husband and I have been called fanatics simply for sharing the gospel. Once when we were discussing something from the Bible with my dad, he looked at us like we were nuts and said, "You know, you guys are weird!" We were even accused of being abnormal (and we weren't even attending a charismatic church at that time!).

"Jesus was misunderstood too, so we are in good company when we follow Him." True! The Pharisees even went as far as saying Jesus was demon-possessed. Talk about being misunderstood!

[chipped china]

I too desire for everyone to be filled to brimming over with the Holy Spirit. Of course that's the Holy Spirit's job but I still try to convey my testimony and experiences to people who don't feel that way. The result of this happening to me is what keeps me on fire for Him. I usually don't stray to far before I'm figuratively on my knees before Him again. And though I was open and ready, the filling had nothing to do with me, it was His gift flowing in, around, and through my spirit. It caused awe, wonder, trembling, and a great sense of His unconditional love. It did not come with the gift of tongues but I know it does for others. I know we all think we've seen the hypocrisy of false gifts whether tongues or healings and we have used the spirit of discernment. There is one point that was brought to my attention in a study I was doing the other day and it's simply that we need to be careful in judging things of the Spirit. As the 3rd commandments says Do not take the Lord's name in vain. I'm one that believes this has much more to do with claiming Him as our own, than swearing. Who are we to know that God is not exercising one of gifts in someone and I certainly don't want to break this commandment since it's the unpardonable if used to that extreme.

Lastly, I love the true fanatics whether they are the quiet or exuberant type. There's nothing like seeing Jesus in another believer.